The Mysterious "Understanding" between BYU and Utah

Let me first state that I've never seen a document purporting to bind the two schools in any manner with respect to conference allegiances. Moreover, I've never spoken with either president of the two Universities.



That being said, WAY before conference expansion came up--I'm guessing sometime around 2006 or 2007--I recall speaking with someone that would positively know about that which they spoke. If I recall correctly, it may have been in regards to going independent. Anyway, he made the comment that BYU wouldn't really consider it because there is an agreement/understanding (honestly can't remember which word he used) that neither school will ever leave the MWC without the other.



Again, I can't confirm there was ever an actual agreement. But I believe there was.

Maybe that is what Holmoe was refering to about "new opportunities", that we were not tied down by Utah any more.

mcgregor wrote:
Let me first state that I've never seen a document purporting to bind the two schools in any manner with respect to conference allegiances. Moreover, I've never spoken with either president of the two Universities.



That being said, WAY before conference expansion came up--I'm guessing sometime around 2006 or 2007--I recall speaking with someone that would positively know about that which they spoke. If I recall correctly, it may have been in regards to going independent. Anyway, he made the comment that BYU wouldn't really consider it because there is an agreement/understanding (honestly can't remember which word he used) that neither school will ever leave the MWC without the other.



Again, I can't confirm there was ever an actual agreement. But I believe there was.

I had a similar conversation with a similar person a while ago and he said that in all negotiations, TV, leaving the WAC, etc that BYU and Utah are essentially tied at the hip. They are in constant conversation with each other and always vote the same because they discuss all issues with each other before hand.



Now that doesn't mean that there was an agreement, it just sounds like it's an unwritten rule and it's always been that way. Utah essentially bucked the trend by leaving the MWC without BYU and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the higher ups at BYU are a little peeved by it.



Whether this has permanently damaged ties between BYU and Utah remains to be seen.

So what if there were an agreement? Verbal agreements are shaky and not really binding. BYU would have ditched Utah in a milisecond if we had received an invite to the Big 12.

Had BYU got the PAC10 offer and not Utah, BYU jumps and does not think twice. Let's not act like this would not happen, we all know it would. I have zero issues with how all this went down and trying to make it seem like Utah did something wrong here is just not the case. They acted rationally, logically, and in the best interests of their school and athletic department. Just as BYU would. And just as BYU will if a Big 12 invite comes their way.

Lawboy wrote:
Had BYU got the PAC10 offer and not Utah, BYU jumps and does not think twice. Let's not act like this would not happen, we all know it would. I have zero issues with how all this went down and trying to make it seem like Utah did something wrong here is just not the case. They acted rationally, logically, and in the best interests of their school and athletic department. Just as BYU would. And just as BYU will if a Big 12 invite comes their way.

I totally agree with you. I think BYU would jump at the opportunity if the roles were reversed. That being said I think a lot of Utah fans would feel the same as a lot of BYU fans if the roles were reversed as well.



I hold no ill feelings toward Utah for joining the PAC. In fact it is kind of refreshing for me because now I couldn't care less about Utah. I cared about Utah in the MWC because that affected BYU but now they fall into the Utah State camp...who cares.

Frankly, I'm not so sure BYU would have jumped and abandoned the "agreement" if the shoe were on the other foot though I think they would be stupid for not doing so. I have no problem with Yewtah accepting the offer. Good for them. I have every problem with the Pac-10 for choosing Yewtah over BYU. BYU is better in every way that matters, except for "cultural fit" and I don't even think that really matters, at least it shouldn't. These are athletic conferences, not social clubs. And athletically as well as monetarily, BYU would have brought more to the table than Yewtah, plain and simple. There's no way that can even be argued. The Pac-10 just pulled up their skirt and waved their bigotry for all to see. Not that we didn't already know it existed before. But whatever. I have every confidence BYU is going to continue to get stronger and stronger as a program, whether we are in a BCS conference or not.

Yeah, but he bottom line is that I'd rather BYU be in a MWC that is an AQ conference (which probably would have happened in 2012 or whenever) than in the Pac-10 or Big XII. That is why I am disappointed Utah bolted. Not because I think Utah "owed" any kind of allegiance to BYU.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Yeah, but he bottom line is that I'd rather BYU be in a MWC that is an AQ conference (which probably would have happened in 2012 or whenever) than in the Pac-10 or Big XII. That is why I am disappointed Utah bolted. Not because I think Utah "owed" any kind of allegiance to BYU.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. An AQ Mountain West is the best opportunity from a winning games and championships/path to a national title standpoint.

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Yeah, but he bottom line is that I'd rather BYU be in a MWC that is an AQ conference (which probably would have happened in 2012 or whenever) than in the Pac-10 or Big XII. That is why I am disappointed Utah bolted. Not because I think Utah "owed" any kind of allegiance to BYU.

Funny if Utah petitioned to get BACK in the MWC after a few low earnings seasons at the Pac-0

CAFB_04-12 wrote:
Yeah, but he bottom line is that I'd rather BYU be in a MWC that is an AQ conference (which probably would have happened in 2012 or whenever) than in the Pac-10 or Big XII. That is why I am disappointed Utah bolted. Not because I think Utah "owed" any kind of allegiance to BYU.

Funny if Utah petitioned to get BACK in the MWC after a few low earnings seasons at the Pac-0

I agree with the last 2 posts. BYU and Utah would both be better off in an AQ MWC than either will be in a PAC 12 or Big 12. In fact, wihtout BSU would have even been beter.



At least until a playoff system comes along.



So now that BSU is the new U of U instead of being the new BYU - BYU is no worse off for the Utes leaving and the Utes will get humbled in the PAC 12 no matter how the conference organizes its 12 teams. The Utes will have less money in the athletic budget than any PAC 12 team and only WSU will be close. But, I think utah will be reasonably competitive over there most years - kind of like AZ and ASU are.



I hope the Utes prove me wrong - because I got my MBA at Utah and they are my 2nd favorite college team.



But, TCU, BYU, or BSU running the table will get a BCS Bowl every time and if they do it often enough, they will play for the NC. Maybe even a 1-loss TCU, BSU, or BYU could get a BCS Bowl - cuz the WAC won't have BSU undefeated every year.



So tip to the wise - BSU, BYU, and TCU ought to take turns scheduling Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii, and possibly other WAC teams to make sure one of them doesn't end up undefeated - that will leave a few more scraps on the table for us.



When Utah runs the table in the PAC 12 (probably will never happen), Utah will still get excluded from the BCS NC Game due to perceived strength of Florida, Bama, Texas, ND, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc., and the perception that the PAC 1 was weak that year because USC didn't win it.



And, when BYU has an off year - BYU can whip the Utes in the Las Vegas or Poinsettia Bowl if the Utes had a good enough year to get in there.



Go Cougs.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
I hope the Utes prove me wrong - because I got my MBA at Utah and they are my 2nd favorite college team.

I am now going to throw up. :sick:

;)

HoosierCougar wrote:

I hope the Utes prove me wrong - because I got my MBA at Utah and they are my 2nd favorite college team.

I am now going to throw up. :sick:

;)

Nothing wrong with admitting to strong feelings for an out of conference ex-girlfriend you used to fight with before going through a messy break-up where she left you for an uglier, richer, but god-less cousin.

Lawboy wrote:
Had BYU got the PAC10 offer and not Utah, BYU jumps and does not think twice. Let's not act like this would not happen, we all know it would. I have zero issues with how all this went down and trying to make it seem like Utah did something wrong here is just not the case. They acted rationally, logically, and in the best interests of their school and athletic department. Just as BYU would. And just as BYU will if a Big 12 invite comes their way.

Evidently I poorly communicated my point.



The agreement was in place in order to leverage BOTH schools into an agreement that would be in each school's best interest.



I'm confident that if there was an agreement in place, as I believe there was, BYU would have used it to get a deal beneficial to both schools. That was the agreement.



We saw the same thing in the Big12, where Texas--under a different framework--would have been unwilling to jump the Big12 without its girlfriend, Oklahoma, and possibly a few other schools. Why would the PAC10 have taken all those schools when adding Texas would have immediately boosted revenues? Because Texas INSISTED on it.



It was BYU's understand that the same thing would have taken place when Utah was offered. Yes, going to the PAC10 was in Utah's best interest, and for that I cannot fault them. But they forgot to calculate the other side of the equation.



So in the end, they did the right thing the wrong way.

mcgregor, and what are your new insights into BYU moving to an AQ conference, beit the Big12 or MWC gaining AQ status, in the near future?

CougarPeasant wrote:
mcgregor, and what are your new insights into BYU moving to an AQ conference, beit the Big12 or MWC gaining AQ status, in the near future?

I don't really have any "new" insights. Although I've spoken with my contact on this issue (which I feel has proven himself highly reliable), nothing seems to change. All I hear is that BYU has spoken with the Big12--I believe on several occasions--and while there is interest, the Big12 is going to sit on expansion for at least a year. If I recall correctly, I think two years is more likely. The likely reasoning is to avoid splitting the pie any more than is necessary. When media partners start forcing the issue, then BYU will be in the discussion for the Big12.



As far as the MWC gaining AQ status, I have absolutely no sources on the issue.

mcgregor wrote:

mcgregor, and what are your new insights into BYU moving to an AQ conference, beit the Big12 or MWC gaining AQ status, in the near future?

I don't really have any "new" insights. Although I've spoken with my contact on this issue (which I feel has proven himself highly reliable), nothing seems to change. All I hear is that BYU has spoken with the Big12--I believe on several occasions--and while there is interest, the Big12 is going to sit on expansion for at least a year. If I recall correctly, I think two years is more likely. The likely reasoning is to avoid splitting the pie any more than is necessary. When media partners start forcing the issue, then BYU will be in the discussion for the Big12.



As far as the MWC gaining AQ status, I have absolutely no sources on the issue.

Do you have any insight into what Holmoe meant when he said that new opportunities were available to them that weren't before?

mcgregor wrote:
I don't really have any "new" insights. Although I've spoken with my contact on this issue (which I feel has proven himself highly reliable), nothing seems to change. All I hear is that BYU has spoken with the Big12--I believe on several occasions--and while there is interest, the Big12 is going to sit on expansion for at least a year. If I recall correctly, I think two years is more likely. The likely reasoning is to avoid splitting the pie any more than is necessary. When media partners start forcing the issue, then BYU will be in the discussion for the Big12.

Thanks for the info. I have no contact with anyone like you do so I bow in your presence. ;)



Yet, my perspective is that the Big12 will be forced to add 2 more teams, sooner, rather than later. Two conferences recently upgraded to 12 teams, bringing the BCS conference total to 4 that have 12 teams. The ACC added teams so they could have a championship game so there is no way the other 4 conferences are going to sit by and let the Big12 win its appeal to hold one with only 10 teams. Even the BiglEast will stand in the way since they will only have 8 teams.



The Dr Pepper/Jerry Jones faction will be too great for the Big 12 to overcome in skipping the championship game. So once the Big 12 conference accepts the offer they can't refuse, which means they field 12 teams for that championship game, BYU will be back in the discussion. What I fear however, is that the Big12 decides to go East instead of West for their new members and raid the Big East. Fortunately, the western most BE teams suck at football currently. Also, the Big 12 needs more of a westerly presence, which BYU provides.

As far as the MWC gaining AQ status, I have absolutely no sources on the issue.

Then what good are you?!!!! :lol:



If TCU, BSU, and BYU do as well as expected this coming season, and AFA beats ewetah, then the MWC will merit AQ status regardless of what happens in 2012. IMO

CougarPeasant wrote:

I don't really have any "new" insights. Although I've spoken with my contact on this issue (which I feel has proven himself highly reliable), nothing seems to change. All I hear is that BYU has spoken with the Big12--I believe on several occasions--and while there is interest, the Big12 is going to sit on expansion for at least a year. If I recall correctly, I think two years is more likely. The likely reasoning is to avoid splitting the pie any more than is necessary. When media partners start forcing the issue, then BYU will be in the discussion for the Big12.

Thanks for the info. I have no contact with anyone like you do so I bow in your presence. ;)



Yet, my perspective is that the Big12 will be forced to add 2 more teams, sooner, rather than later. Two conferences recently upgraded to 12 teams, bringing the BCS conference total to 4 that have 12 teams. The ACC added teams so they could have a championship game so there is no way the other 4 conferences are going to sit by and let the Big12 win its appeal to hold one with only 10 teams. Even the BiglEast will stand in the way since they will only have 8 teams.



The Dr Pepper/Jerry Jones faction will be too great for the Big 12 to overcome in skipping the championship game. So once the Big 12 conference accepts the offer they can't refuse, which means they field 12 teams for that championship game, BYU will be back in the discussion. What I fear however, is that the Big12 decides to go East instead of West for their new members and raid the Big East. Fortunately, the western most BE teams suck at football currently. Also, the Big 12 needs more of a westerly presence, which BYU provides.

As far as the MWC gaining AQ status, I have absolutely no sources on the issue.

Then what good are you?!!!! :lol:



If TCU, BSU, and BYU do as well as expected this coming season, and AFA beats ewetah, then the MWC will merit AQ status regardless of what happens in 2012. IMO

These are my thoughts exactly. I don't have any insider info but I do know the politics of money. The sponsorship money for the big 12 championship game has already been spent. This is high dollar stuff. do you realize that a full page add in the yellow pages is over $60,000 per year? This is just the yellow pages. How much have these big companies spent to have Dr. Pepper pasted all over the TV during championship weekend. My guess is it in the 10's of millions. There is no way that these companies are going to just sit and let this money rot without a return on their investment. The Big 12 is going to be forced to expand back to 12 teams after 2012. Now whether BYU is invited is another story but I am sure that the big 12 is going to expand.