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Expansion: Big XII Leftovers vs. Boise State

by Mars · 6/8/2010

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M
Mars


"If the Big 12 loses six teams to the Pac-10 and at least one to the Big Ten, it will lose its standing as a conference, according to The New York Times. The newspaper cited an NCAA rule that states a league must have six schools that have played together for at least five years." http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/07/ccripe/mountain_wests_top_teams_might_not_have_chance_leave_league





If Missouri refuses to commit to the Big XII, Texas views them as a replacable loss (Louisville, come on down?). But say Nebraska refuses to commit to the Big XII, hoping for a Big Ten invite- The PAC-10 raid of the Big XII could become reality, with Texas leading the charge out, along with Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Colorado or Baylor (depending on politics). And then the Big Ten, rebuffed by Notre Dame for the last time, follows through by picking up one of Nebraska/Missouri. Just like that, the Big XII would cease to exist, officially being dissolved. That leaves up to 5 unincorporated former BCS schools out there looking for a new conference to join:



Kansas

Kansas State

Iowa State

Baylor or Colorado

and possibly Missouri or Nebraska



The MWC has discussed going to 10, 12, or even 16 again in this situation. Of course, adding Boise State now wouldn't keep us from adding more schools later. The only question then would be, where is the line (conference size, number of member institutions) at which you stop adding, and how will the Big XII additions affect our quest to become BCS?



My question for you is, how would you rank these eight teams, including Boise State as well, from most desirable (1) to least desirable (8)? Missouri brings the huge Kansas City TV market and has seen success in both major sports recently. Nebraska has the football tradition, but a tiny TV market. Kansas brings multiple basketball national championships, but may also have to bring along KSU (UNLV likey?). Baylor (a huge rival for TCU) had a better baseball and men's basketball team than anyone in the MWC last year, and better academics to boot. Colorado is the bigger version of CSU that solidifies the Denver market. Even lowly Iowa State has a football stadium of 55,000, which would imediately put them 2nd in football attendance in the MWC behind BYU (as poor as they are in the Big XII, they dwarf schools like Wyoming with ease). Then again, Boise State has the best BCS football numbers out there that we could add, in all 3 categories. The Big XII schools wouldn't be added in time for the BCS evaluation at best, and would drag us down into destruction (think: KSU, ISU, Baylor, Colorado) at worst.





My personal opinion (Edited, after some thought and after looking at a map of the US: http://www.digital-topo-maps.com/county-map/united-states-map.gif ):

1. Nebraska (has to be added if at all possible)

2. Boise State (the only one that helps the MWC become BCS- must be added by July 1st, 2010)

3. Colorado (should be added if at all possible)

4. Kansas (solid #12 if Nebraska or Colorado are gone, may add enough otherwise to go to 14... is KSU automatically attached?)

5. Baylor (a powerfully connected school in the Texas TV and recruiting markets... can't hurt... Mormons vs. Baptists rivalry?)

6. Kansas State (great basketball history, may be part of a package deal with Kansas)

7. Missouri (good school in football, basketball, academics, good TV market, but too far outside of our geographical footprint)

8. Iowa State (ugh... pass. I would probably prefer Fresno State to these guys, despite their current Texas-inflated atheltic budget)
M
Mars


" Boise State's invite to the Mountain West is on hold most likely because of a new batch of teams available to the league. Mountain West commissioner Craig Thompson announced Monday that his conference would not move on expansion at this time. Going into Monday, it was thought that Boise State was close to a lock to join the nine-team league. The MWC's board met at the league's spring meetings in Jackson, Wyo., and decided to take no action... Thompson indicated earlier that the prospect of getting a shot at Big 12 leftovers could alter the conference's expansion thinking. If the Big 12 breaks up, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Baylor could be left without a home. "Wait a minute," Thompson told the Idaho Statesman in Monday's editions, "Kansas State and Iowa State and Baylor and Kansas and people are looking for homes. How does that affect our thinking?" A lot, potentially. The Big 12 teams remaining from a possible Pac-10 raid could prop up the Mountain West in its aim to become a permanent BCS conference... Kansas would bring a top five basketball program and a football program on a par with Missouri, a school being mentioned for Big Ten expansion. Kansas State has sunk millions into coaches' salaries and facilities the past 20 years in an effort to stay competitive. Iowa State doesn't bring a market or much athletic excellence... Baylor is waiting to see if political clout in the Texas statehouse is enough to get it in the Pac-10. If so, Colorado would be available to the Mountain West. "



http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/13491773/boise-state-on-hold-as-mountain-west-awaits-big-12-fallout/rss?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cbssportsline%2Fcfb_news+%28College+Football+News%3A+CBSSports.com%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo
S
StatsCougar
My order.

1. Nebraska. We have another great name.

2. Kansas. Adds Basketball greats, and leverage to get better coverage for basketball game. Kansas fans would go nuts if they can't see their team play.

3. Kansas State. Good Football and Basketball history. Package deal with Kansas.

4. Baylor. Opens Texas even more. Rival for TCU, and good non-football sports. Basketball this year and baseball most years.

5. Boise State. Don't think they add much. I think they might become a liability after afew year in the conference.

6. Colorado. Good Market, but athletics have been down for awhile. Can't deliver the market. CSU Rival

7. Missouri. Good Market. desecent football and basketball school. Too Far to travel too.

8. Iowa State. No way on God's green Earth. Add nothing of value. Too far away
V
vancouvercougar
Could we pick 4 of the teams and kick out UNLV or Wyo.?
G
Guest
1. Nebraska = the kind of storied tradition and recognition that money can't buy

2. & 3. Kansas and Kansas State, I agree that they are ultimately a package deal, you can't get one without the other, and the basketball props we'd get with Kansas alone are worth bringing in KSU.

4. Now it's hard, I was planning on putting Boise here, until I started thinking about Baylor and even Colorado makes a case here, but... I think it would have to be Baylor or Boise.
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J
jonnylingo
nebraska (for reputation reasons)

missouri (for money reasons)

kansas (for basketball)

colorado (geographical reasons)

nobody else.
N
NebraskaCoug
I think Nebraska is the the real linchpin of all this expansion. If they choose to stay in the BIG XII, the BIG XII will most likely stay together. If they bolt, then the PAC 16 is more likely. Here is a link to what the prevailing feeling is in Nebraska right now.



http://huskerextra.com/articles/2010/06/07/football/doc4c0c6e17d5b1a806226535.txt



Steve Sipple is the local authority on the Huskers in Lincoln, and he is well connected at the athletic department. It sounds like Nebraska favors leaving for the Big Ten-eleven if they get the offer.
N
NebraskaCoug
I didn't phrase that right. After Notre Dame, I think Nebraska is the key.
L
Lawboy
For football, Nebraska is #1, no one else is close. For hoops, Kansas is #1, and no one else is close. So I included both for the reasons that each would give the MWC instant respect in those sports.



1. Nebraska

2. Colorado

3. Kansas



I suspect that Nebraska ends up staying in teh Big 12, however. At the end of the day, I still expect on Missouri to bolt to the Big 10, and Colorado and Utah to the Pac 10. That opens up 2 Big 12 spots, and I think BYU gets one of those. Best case scenario.
C
CougarClaw
NebraskaCoug wrote:
I think Nebraska is the the real linchpin of all this expansion. If they choose to stay in the BIG XII, the BIG XII will most likely stay together. If they bolt, then the PAC 16 is more likely. Here is a link to what the prevailing feeling is in Nebraska right now.



http://huskerextra.com/articles/2010/06/07/football/doc4c0c6e17d5b1a806226535.txt



Steve Sipple is the local authority on the Huskers in Lincoln, and he is well connected at the athletic department. It sounds like Nebraska favors leaving for the Big Ten-eleven if they get the offer.


Here's a quote from that article you referenced:



Joining an expanded Mountain West. This obviously would be an unfortunate situation Nebraska.



The MWC reportedly is set to invite Boise State to become the league’s 10th member. Perhaps the MWC later could pick up Big 12 schools that potentially could be left out in the cold in massive national realignment. Let’s face it, Nebraska tumbling into the MWC would be a significant letdown for both the school and the state in general, and would shape Osborne’s legacy in ways we might not like to ponder.




I suppose if we're that excited on getting Nebraska it justifies that they'd be that unexcited about joining us. The word "tumbled" is still hard for me to use for Nebraska joining the MWC and that someone would be that unimpressed with a conference that has a better BCS record (see THE CHART) than two of the BCS conferences and one that has owned the Pac-10 in the last few years.



It's not exactly like Nebraska has had the strongest football years of late either, but I wonder how they'd fit with the rest of their sports?
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N
NebraskaCoug
I suppose if we're that excited on getting Nebraska it justifies that they'd be that unexcited about joining us. The word "tumbled" is still hard for me to use for Nebraska joining the MWC and that someone would be that unimpressed with a conference that has a better BCS record (see THE CHART) than two of the BCS conferences and one that has owned the Pac-10 in the last few years.



It's not exactly like Nebraska has had the strongest football years of late either


I agree with you CougarClaw. I was just giving you insight into what the Huskers are thinking. In Nebraska, the world revolves around the Huskers, and although they know that they haven't been world-beaters since they fired Frank Solich, they believe they are on the upswing back to greatness with Bo Pelini, like we feel about Bronco Mendenhall. It took a pretty crooked officiating crew to help the Longhorns beat the Huskers in the Big XII title game last year, and the Longhorns ended up playing for the National Championship. I know the Huskers were pretty chapped by that game. I understand that Pelini had some pretty abrasive and loud words for the officiating crew in the tunnel after that game.



Imagine if the Cougars had been in a BCS conference all this time, and after the Crowton years, Bronco had given us hope of returning to a National Championship (which he has), and because of other teams' decisions we were kicked to a non-BCS conference. We wouldn't be really excited about that. I don't blame the Huskers for their point of view.
N
NebraskaCoug
With regard to other Nebraska sports, their basketball team has shown some signs of life, but they are a perennial Big XII doormat, and they would probably be in the lower half of the MWC. The Women's volleyball team is perennially ranked in the top 10. They have recently won some national championships. I think most Nebraska sports are middle of the road in the Big XII, although don't quote me because I moved away from Lincoln, and I don't really pay attention to any Husker sports besides football.
A
ABYUFAN
NebraskaCoug wrote:
With regard to other Nebraska sports, their basketball team has shown some signs of life, but they are a perennial Big XII doormat, and they would probably be in the lower half of the MWC. The Women's volleyball team is perennially ranked in the top 10. They have recently won some national championships. I think most Nebraska sports are middle of the road in the Big XII, although don't quote mebecause I moved away from Lincoln, and I don't really pay attention to any Husker sports besides football.




:blush: :blush: Ooops - I quoted you.... ;) :P
B
BYUgrad03
It took a pretty crooked officiating crew to help the Longhorns beat the Huskers in the Big XII title game last year, and the Longhorns ended up playing for the National Championship.


How? If you're referring to the one-second ordeal, I watched the game and the ball hit the out of bounds with a second left. It was the right call. If it had been NU driving down the field and their QB threw the ball out of bounds with one second left, and the officiating crew "refused" to review the play or put that second back on the clock, then your statement would be valid. It's situations like that that made the need for instant replay necessary. In that instance they got the call right. I saw nothing else that could lead one to believe that the refs were crooked.



Just like when OU gripes about Bradford going down against us, or Longhorn fans complaining about McCoy going down in the MNC game. OU had it's opportunities to finish the game against BYU, as did Texas in the MNC, as did NU against Texas. NU could've blocked the field goal, and they could have actually brought an offense to the game. NU lost that game, period. They lost, the refs didn't lose it for them. Get over it.



Typically, I don't care about one fanbase crying about another, but I've heard more husker fans gripe in the last few months about Texas and that game, than any other fan base's gripes about an opponent/ game than I can recollect. If that's the way they are, then I say please don't let them into the MWC. We have enough whiners in red up north, we don't need anymore.



P.S. I think you're right that NU is the linchpin for all of the mess, and I think it's because they're envious and jealous of the fact that they're no longer the dominant force in the Big 12 like they were in the beginning, and are looking to move on. Yes Texas has a lot of power, but they wouldn't have all of this power if they didn't win first on the football field, or the basketball court, or the baseball diamond, etc. Winning = money and money = power. They've earned their status over the course of the last decade, NU hasn't.
C
CougarClaw
The offense in that game overall was pathetic. Huskers brought Suh with them, but I have to wonder if it would have even been a ball game without him. I didn't think much of Texas' defense, but Nebraska's O made them look like an iron curtain surrounded by mines and bombs. Nebraska could do nothing on offense and that lost the game for them.



I also agree the extra second was legit even though I would have loved to watch Mccoy hit the turf a few more times.



to BYU Grad's point, the Big 12 bases its revenue distribution on winning. If Nebraska doesn't think that's a formula that works for them anymore, that decision is more telling than just about anything else. Texas has earned their respect. Nebraska should want to earn theirs as well.



and NebraskaCoug: thanks for the insights, good discussion about Nebraska. I kind of hope they do get 'relegated' to a "lower" conference just so we can beat them. :crazy: :crazy: :love:
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M
Mars


"The Mountain West's decision to stand pat was pretty telling. Likely future home of any Big 12 refugees."



http://twitter.com/ChipBrownOB
M
Mars
Lawboy wrote:
For football, Nebraska is #1, no one else is close. For hoops, Kansas is #1, and no one else is close.

For football, Nebraska has the most tradition, but they haven't compared on the field with Boise State since 2002 on, not even close. Nebraska has gone 63-40 since then, with 0 conference championships and 0 BCS bowl appearances. Meanwhile, Boise State has gone 84-11 with 7 conference championships and 2 BCS bowl wins.



For basketball, you're right about Kansas, but they still had 2 less wins in the NCAA Tourny last year that either Baylor or Kansas State did. http://games.espn.go.com/tcmen/en/entry?entryID=1125888
N
NebraskaCoug

How? If you're referring to the one-second ordeal, I watched the game and the ball hit the out of bounds with a second left. It was the right call. If it had been NU driving down the field and their QB threw the ball out of bounds with one second left, and the officiating crew "refused" to review the play or put that second back on the clock, then your statement would be valid. It's situations like that that made the need for instant replay necessary. In that instance they got the call right. I saw nothing else that could lead one to believe that the refs were crooked.


Actually I wasn't referring to the extra second. Although IIRC the way that was handled wasn't great either. Actually, the terrible call, in addition to the obvious holding against Suh all night, was the pass interference call that kept the chains moving past midfield in the winning drive. Again, IIRC, it was third down so the Longhorns would have been stopped short of midfield, well out of fieldgoal range, and the ball was clearly uncatchable, several feet out of reach, and the contact was even suspect.



I'm sorry, I'm not a Nebraska homer, and I actually like the Longhorns and even live in Texas now, but you can't convince me that there wasn't a clear bias in favor of UT in that game. There was too much to lose for the Big XII conference and the whole BCS if Nebraska won. If Nebraska beat Texas, not only would there not have been a Big XII representative in the the NC game, but there would have been a much bigger argument for one of the non-AQ schools like TCU or Boise State to take Texas' place. That game exposed how weak Texas actually was, that they needed some extra calls to beat a rebuilding Nebraska squad with a totally incompetent offense. TCU really should have had a shot at Alabama. Despite what happened in their bowl game, I think they would have given Alabama (and all of us viewers) a better game, and I think they would have had a legitimate shot at beating them.
M
Mingjai
NebraskaCoug wrote:
That game exposed how weak Texas actually was, that they needed some extra calls to beat a rebuilding Nebraska squad with a totally incompetent offense. TCU really should have had a shot at Alabama. Despite what happened in their bowl game, I think they would have given Alabama (and all of us viewers) a better game, and I think they would have had a legitimate shot at beating them.


Well, Texas minus McCoy was terrible. I'm not a Horns fan, but I thought the Texas offense looked like they came to play until they called a questionable QB run play. But I also think TCU or BSU would have give Alabama a run for their money.
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