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Nelson

by SpiffCoug · 5/29/2010

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SpiffCoug
I say no. So I'm inclined to lean towards Nelson as the starter in 2010. Of course, as fall camp starts and summer reports come in, I'm more than willing to change my opinion.
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HoosierCougar
Nelson didn't impress me in his limited PT in 2009. I thought his ball was wabbley and he showed a willingness to tuck and run way before it appeared the play was cooked.



That said, I watched a Ty Detmer game the other day and he threw a LOT of wabbley balls.



Give Nelson a bit of time and let's see what happens...



CAVEAT: Nelson hasn't played in a pressure situation since leaving USU 3+ years ago. Heaps has been playing, attending clinics and being hyped. I know Bronoco won't let the hype dictate anything substantive, however, it'll come down to who can get it done on the field, and with more recent quality PT, I wonder if Heaps doesn't shine more...
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Ddawg
I've stated a number of times - I lean towards Riley Nelson starting Game 1 against UW - based on experience / time in the saddle. However, comments I read after BYU Spring practice from the secondary - when Jake was in - they backed up & respected his arm/accuracy more than Riley's. Interesting.



I believe both men can get it done. I think the Coug's are lucky to have both Jake & Riley in the program. Both are solid. The Coach's decision will be one of degrees & the "trust" factor will be huge. "Trust" to not make rookie mistakes in the first Quarter digs a deep hole.



I would love to be a fly on the wall each day after practice this Summer when Anae & Bronco evaluate & "break it down." I think it will be degrees & shades. Good stuff!!! Wish I was there!!

8)
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CougarClaw
Nelson was not impressive when he played last year. Of course that was a side-by-side comparison with Senior starter Max Hall who was brilliant. Nelson's throws lacked accuracy, the offense routinely stalled, and what should have been a sure interception was penalty- called back so we could kick. He ran whenever he could which was more effective for him which might explain why he did it so often.



Not saying he isn't the best option since i've not seen anything but highlight reels for Heaps, but Nelson sure had plenty to work on since last year.
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Mars


I'm curious, out of those who want Nelson to start against Washington:



1- How many want him to start all year this year, and all year next year- his senior year? (With Heaps -the #1 freshman QB in the nation- red-shirting one year, and then losing a year of eligibility sitting the bench the second, or going on a mission and coming back a year after someone else not named Nelson or Heaps is named the starter)

2- How many want him to start all year this year, and then sit on the bench his senior year as Heaps takes over?

3- How many want him to start some of this year, only to give way to Heaps as the season progresses?



To me, if you are in camp #2 or #3, then it's better to just see Heaps start from Washington on; the whole 2 QB thing rarely works out well. And I don't see a lot of people in camp #1.
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snoscythe
I want the QB to start this season who will win the most games for us right here, right now. I want the same thing next season. I believe that QB is Nelson.



I like how you make #1 seem like a bad thing. What's so bad about having your second-best quarterback play backup for a year while the best quarterback has his senior season? Because if Heaps can't take away the starting spot next summer, that's the situation we'll have--the best quarterback in his class who was the second-best on his team. Why would you start your second-best guy just because of his high school ranking? You should call the Saints and tell them to start Joey Harrington over Drew Brees--Harrington was drafted higher in the draft than Brees. Heck, Brees wasn't even first round, Harrington was top 3, AND Harrington is younger, so he must have more upside.
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CougarPeasant
The one thing that makes me pause about Nelson is that if he really were ready to lead the team, he would have emerged from spring ball as the named starter. He wasn't. Does that mean he can't lead BYU? No, not at all, but it does mean that the coaching staff aren't sold on him being the one to lead the team to the most wins this year.



I've also read reports that though Nelson is leading the summer practices, Heaps is leading the team in those practices. I really see BYU being in the same situation that USC was last season, namely, a gifted true freshman comes in, wows the staff, and ends up being the starter come fall. Heaps will likely do at BYU what Barkley did at USC last season. Yet, if Nelson does emerge as the starter come fall, I'll know it was because he earned the right to start as Bronco will start who he thinks gives the team the best chance at winning.
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SpiffCoug
Mars wrote:


I'm curious, out of those who want Nelson to start against Washington:



1- How many want him to start all year this year, and all year next year- his senior year? (With Heaps -the #1 freshman QB in the nation- red-shirting one year, and then losing a year of eligibility sitting the bench the second, or going on a mission and coming back a year after someone else not named Nelson or Heaps is named the starter)

2- How many want him to start all year this year, and then sit on the bench his senior year as Heaps takes over?

3- How many want him to start some of this year, only to give way to Heaps as the season progresses?



To me, if you are in camp #2 or #3, then it's better to just see Heaps start from Washington on; the whole 2 QB thing rarely works out well. And I don't see a lot of people in camp #1.


This is one of my concerns. I think if you we wind up going with Nelson this year, you are almost in essence committing to him for two year. But not entirely. 2011 is a different year.



Berry was the established starter in 2003 and 2004 but lost the job to Beck in 2005. I went to every spring ball in 2005 and the difference between the two wasn't that big. But Bronco went with Beck. I could see Bronco and Anae and Doman repoening the race next spring ball if they RS Heaps.



I do agree if you wind up starting Nelson, but then transitioning to Heaps, you are better beginning with Heaps.



I also agree with Sno, that you make your #1 option to be somehow bad. That making Heaps wait is somehow wrong.
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KYCoug
I think we need to give some perspective...was Neilson less of a qb in 77 when backup Wilson came in and started a couple of games due to injuries. Was Wilson less of a qb when backup McMahon in 79 started a couple of games. Having a great qb behind Nelson will do one of two things. It will either push him to expose his weakness and thus his demise or it will drive him to bigger and better things. Somehow I don't think we will go through the year with Nelson not getting some kind of injury. My guess is Heaps will step in, and at that point Nelson if he can overcome the injury will implode or it will drive him to be the better qb. It's always good to have a quality backup.



I think of all the ink that has been wasted on this argument and all I can say is I can't wait until football season starts again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Go Cougs!



L Hatton

Louisville KY
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Mars
snoscythe wrote:
I like how you make #1 seem like a bad thing. What's so bad about having your second-best quarterback play backup for a[nother] year while the best quarterback has his senior season?

It's only a bad thing if you have your 2nd-best QB starting while your best QB sits the bench behind him for two years. Which would be the case if Nelson started 2010 and 2011. No one thinks Riley has more talent than Heaps. Why waste talent when it can be used, unless Nelson or Heaps mean more to you than BYU does?
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WestCoastCat
Heaps will be the guy... based on his spring and now off season performance there is no doubt the future lies with him. He is bonding with the receivers and using the entire passing tree which he has at his disposal. Heaps ability to adapt, and learn a defenses tendencies on the fly is impressive for one so young.



There is a reason Wrubell wrote the article he did... sorry sno and kiti but I think Nelson at best will share time with Heaps. One thing I do agree with you on is that the coaches may start Nelson for the UW game as that particular game has many undertones and emotions for Heaps, Sark and Co. I dont think bronco will underestimated the revenge Sark would like to take against him.
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SpiffCoug
Mars wrote:
It's only a bad thing if you have your 2nd-best QB starting while your best QB sits the bench behind him for two years. Which would be the case if Nelson started 2010 and 2011. No one thinks Riley has more talent than Heaps. Why waste talent when it can be used, unless Nelson or Heaps mean more to you than BYU does?

So red-shirting Heaps would be wasting his talent? It would only be wasted if Heaps didn't use that time to improve his game. Or are your intimating that Heaps has no room left to grow? That he can no longer develop his game? That he has nothing to learn by observing for a year or two?



I don't see how not playing Heaps in 2010 is wasting his talent. I see it as developing him. Taking his talent and asking him to build on it. Work on it. Improve on it. Then unleash it next spring ball and win the job for the 2011 season and then take off.



If Riley is still the starter in 2011, Heaps can look to getting good game experience as a freshman while continuing to hone his game.



I only see benefits to letting Heaps develop. Of course, if he has hit his ceiling then yes, he would be wasting his talent on the bench because he can't get any better.
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snoscythe
WestCoastCat wrote:
Heaps will be the guy... based on his spring and now off season performance there is no doubt the future lies with him. He is bonding with the receivers and using the entire passing tree which he has at his disposal. Heaps ability to adapt, and learn a defenses tendencies on the fly is impressive for one so young.



There is a reason Wrubell wrote the article he did... sorry sno and kiti but I think Nelson at best will share time with Heaps. One thing I do agree with you on is that the coaches may start Nelson for the UW game as that particular game has many undertones and emotions for Heaps, Sark and Co. I dont think bronco will underestimated the revenge Sark would like to take against him.


Yeah, I forgot the media calls the shots. Thank heavens they were there to guide Lavell, Crowton, and Bronco to start Paul Shoemaker, Ben Olson, and Matt Berry.....
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CougarClaw
WestCoastCat wrote:
One thing I do agree with you on is that the coaches may start Nelson for the UW game as that particular game has many undertones and emotions for Heaps, Sark and Co. I dont think bronco will underestimated the revenge Sark would like to take against him.


Are you really saying Sark might design plays designed to physically hurt a QB out of spite? That seems a bit out of character for a BYU alum don't you think?



As for simply blitzing a frosh qb, that's part of the game. the BYU passing game loves blitzes against our mammoth line and fewer dbs to cover our receivers.
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WestCoastCat
Dont be naive, that is exactly what I am saying... If you dont realize the bad blood there between Sark and the Heaps you really dont know much about the Heaps story...



Holt and company will be looking for a way to hurt Heaps mark my words. This has nothing to do with blitzing.



Thats the word that is already coming out of Seattle...
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Mars
kitic77 wrote:
So red-shirting Heaps would be wasting his talent? ...Or are your intimating that Heaps has no room left to grow? That he can no longer develop his game? That he has nothing to learn by observing for a year or two?
No, no, no, and no. :lol:



I am saying that if Heaps sits the bench behind Nelson next season (2011), it's a year wasted for the nation's #1 QB. And that if he serves a mission, 2012 will seem like a wasted year for BYU. And if Heaps redshirts this year even though he is better than Nelson, that his progression was given priority over BYU's benefit. All of which are negative scenarios. None of which I think will occur, as Heaps is likely the starter in 2010.
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Italics
even fans of Riley will admit he doesn't have the most accurate/strong arm. Sorry, but that doesn't seem like what BYU needs, especially taking into account all of the talent we have right now at the WR/TE position. Plus when you take into consideration how much our OL tends to suffer from injuries. Just doesn't make any sense to put a qb like Nelson at the helm...
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Italics
Mars wrote:


I'm curious, out of those who want Nelson to start against Washington:



1- How many want him to start all year this year, and all year next year- his senior year? (With Heaps -the #1 freshman QB in the nation- red-shirting one year, and then losing a year of eligibility sitting the bench the second, or going on a mission and coming back a year after someone else not named Nelson or Heaps is named the starter)

2- How many want him to start all year this year, and then sit on the bench his senior year as Heaps takes over?

3- How many want him to start some of this year, only to give way to Heaps as the season progresses?



To me, if you are in camp #2 or #3, then it's better to just see Heaps start from Washington on; the whole 2 QB thing rarely works out well. And I don't see a lot of people in camp #1.


This is the most I've agreed with on on a subject in a long time. There just aren't many/any reasons at all to bench the #1 QB recruit in the nation for - let's face it - a below average quarterback. If Nelson was anywhere even close to above-average, he would not have been recruited by Utah State, and he would not have sat on the bench for all these years. I have nothing against Nelson, but honestly, Nelson = Nothing special, and Heaps = Tremendous potential .
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Mars
Italics wrote:
This is the most I've agreed with on on a subject in a long time. There just aren't many/any reasons at all to bench the #1 QB recruit in the nation for - let's face it - a below average quarterback. If Nelson was anywhere even close to above-average, he would not have been recruited by Utah State, and he would not have sat on the bench for all these years. I have nothing against Nelson, but honestly, Nelson = Nothing special, and Heaps = Tremendous potential .

You have been pretty disagreeable lately. ;)
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Mars
WestCoastCat wrote:
If you dont realize the bad blood there between Sark and the Heaps you really dont know much about the Heaps story... Holt and company will be looking for a way to hurt Heaps mark my words. This has nothing to do with blitzing. Thats the word that is already coming out of Seattle...

I doubt Washington players or coaches would want to hurt Jake deliberately, but there is plenty of bad blood out there over his picking BYU instead of them.



Remember this gem from the UW coaching community? http://washington.scout.com/2/870128.html



If they go that far to bash Heaps in public, I can only imagine what they say about him in private...
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