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"Heaps a victim of Unga’s saga, but shouldn’t be"

by BigCougsFan · 5/26/2010

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BigCougsFan
Something I haven't thought of, that does make sense.


Heaps took just over half of all quarterback snaps throughout spring ball, finishing 61-of-98 for 743 yards and seven touchdowns while Nelson completed 29-of-51 for 389 yards and five touchdowns. The coaches flipped tackle Matt Reynolds back and forth from right to left tackle to prepare him to protect Heaps’ blindside on the left or Nelson’s on the right.


Kinda obvious who will be the starter, in my opinion.


Mendenhall favors upperclassmen; it’s not really a secret. Heaps isn’t getting preferential treatment to foster growth; Heaps’ big-time talent is the only reason he’s still in the discussion. But because Unga left the program, Heaps absolutely must blow Nelson off the field in fall camp to keep Mendenhall from choosing experience over potential. Barring such a miraculous progression, Nelson will be the starter when Washington comes to town on Sept. 4


I honestly believe this could be switched the other way around. Nelson "absolutely must blow" Heaps "off the field in fall camp" to get the starting job.





http://cougarfan.com/article.asp?ArtID=61292&URL=http://universe.byu.edu/node/8620
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snoscythe
First of all, this is a letter to the editor, so what this guy has to say has as much credence as anyone on this board.



Second, with Harvey out of the picture, Nelson HAD to take the lead in Summer drills.....Heaps and Lark simply don't know what to do in Summer drills. Heaps has never done them, and Lark is 3 years removed from his last go around with Summer drills.



Third, what's so bad about Nelson starting? Heaps gets a redshirt year to develop, mature, and grow and we start a HS Parade All-American quarterback who was rated nearly as high as Heaps coming out of high school. Granted, he didn't come out in a weak QB class like Heaps, so no rating service felt like they needed to bump him up to 5 stars so they had at least one 5 star quarterback. Nelson starting will not be the end of the world, and in my opinion, it would be the best thing for both the team and Heaps.
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gmj81
What? I'm not quite sure I'm reading your tone right Sno. Are you talking about Nelson as being rated as "nearly as high as Heaps coming out of high school" or Lark? I'm confused. Riley was a Parade All-American just like Heaps but it's clear just by looking at their offers (regardless of how the scouting agencies ranked them) that Riley was nowhere even near as highly "rated" as Jake. Riley didn't even have an initial offer to USU as I recall and earned his scholie down the road as it opened up. Don't get me wrong, I like Riley and won't mind one bit if he starts but he just doesn't have the QB skills that Heaps has. You can get by on all athleticism or all smarts or all of just any one thing in high school but in college you have to have more than just one and in the pros even more so. Each level refines and weeds out the "lesser talent". Riley is a great player and makes things work his way but I think it's safe to say he doesn't exactly have NFL talent. Jake does.



And do you really think that Heaps got "bumped" up to five stars because his class was weak and the rating services felt they needed at least "one 5 star" QB? Surely, you've followed this kid enough to know that's not the case. He may not have out-of-this-world size or arm strength but he is more than adequate in each regard and no HS kid has ever dominated the camp and combine circuit like Heaps did. There were scouts who said that he was the most polished QB coming out of HS they had seen in their 10+ years of being in the business. Others have been higher touted because of a rocket arm or impressive stature but few have had the kind of presence and overall abilities of Jake. Let's not forget that ESPN dropped Jake because he spurned their All-American game having already committed to the Army All-American game. And Rivals only dropped him because Jake's lone less-than-top-QB performance was at the one combine of theirs he attended. If I remember correctly, that was the one where he forgot to bring his cleats and wore just his sneakers. And the cherry on top was committing to BYU, a non-BCS school. No, Jake deserved every ranking and praise he got and more so. Others might have a higher ceiling but how many ever actually reach their ceiling anyway?
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Mars
snoscythe wrote:
Third, what's so bad about Nelson starting? Heaps gets a redshirt year to develop, mature, and grow and we start a HS Parade All-American quarterback who was rated nearly as high as Heaps coming out of high school. Granted, he didn't come out in a weak QB class like Heaps, so no rating service felt like they needed to bump him up to 5 stars so they had at least one 5 star quarterback. Nelson starting will not be the end of the world, and in my opinion, it would be the best thing for both the team and Heaps.

I hear that David Foote was ranked almost the same as Harvey Langi as a RB in high school, WR Matt Marshall is about as good as Kasen Williams, and that LBs Manti Te'o and Connell Hess were viewed by scouts to be on basically the same level.



LOL. BYU didn't even offer Nelson a scholarship. He signed with UTAH STATE. :lol:
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snoscythe
Mars wrote:
Third, what's so bad about Nelson starting? Heaps gets a redshirt year to develop, mature, and grow and we start a HS Parade All-American quarterback who was rated nearly as high as Heaps coming out of high school. Granted, he didn't come out in a weak QB class like Heaps, so no rating service felt like they needed to bump him up to 5 stars so they had at least one 5 star quarterback. Nelson starting will not be the end of the world, and in my opinion, it would be the best thing for both the team and Heaps.

I hear that David Foote was ranked almost the same as Harvey Langi as a RB in high school, WR Matt Marshall is about as good as Kasen Williams, and that LBs Manti Te'o and Connell Hess were viewed by scouts to be on basically the same level.



LOL. BYU didn't even offer Nelson a scholarship. He signed with UTAH STATE. :lol:


Go back and look at the ratings. Nelson's raw scores are very comparable to Heaps. Is Nelson's Parade All-American statue worth less than Heaps'?



Why Nelson wasn't offered by BYU and why he went to USU had nothing to do with talent--it had everything to do with him being a die-hard Aggie and with his dad being the team doctor. Both of those things changed on the mission, and I didn't see BYU exactly running away from him when he showed interest two years later.
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SpiffCoug
It also had a lot to do with the fact that Riley really didn't tear it up until his senior year and by that time James Lark was already committed. Lark had been coming to BYU camps and was well known to BYU coaches. He also had very successful sophomore and junior campaigns. BYU may have had a bit of buyers remorse when it came to Nelson at the time, but it's all water under the bridge now.



I still think coaches are going to try and redshirt Heaps. I personally think it's best for both Jake and BYU in the long run.



If I were a coach, I need to either see compelling reasons why Riley Nelson can't get the job done OR compelling reasons why only Jake Heaps can get the job done. In the absence of evidenct towards either question, I'm taking a longer term veiw when it comes to Heaps' development.
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Mars
snoscythe wrote:
Go back and look at the ratings. Nelson's raw scores are very comparable to Heaps. Is Nelson's Parade All-American statue worth less than Heaps'?
Is Jamarcus Russell any less a #1 NFL pick than others taken that high? Uh... YES!



It would be crazy to not start the best QB, and that has been Heaps since day #1. But hey, if you want reward worse players with starting positions just because they are upperclassmen, that's your opinion, and you're certainly not alone in it. Personally, I've always found that approach to be nuts, as well as destructive to recruiting and team morale.
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snoscythe
Mars wrote:
Go back and look at the ratings. Nelson's raw scores are very comparable to Heaps. Is Nelson's Parade All-American statue worth less than Heaps'?
Is Jamarcus Russell any less a #1 NFL pick than others taken that high? Uh... YES!



It would be crazy to not start the best QB, and that has been Heaps since day #1. But hey, if you want reward worse players with starting positions just because they are upperclassmen, that's your opinion, and you're certainly not alone in it. Personally, I've always found that approach to be nuts, as well as destructive to recruiting and team morale.


Jamarcus Russell was a winner at college, and he wowed the press at his first Spring Training before his second season while the Kiffin expressed doubt at starting such a young player because of the risk of hampering development, but bowed to the owner's pressure and proved a prophet. I like your parallel.



Again, though, you ignore the fact that once you filter the 7-on-7 stats out from Spring camp, Nelson had the better Spring camp. Since we will be playing 11-on-11 ball when UW shows up, I'll take the QB who not only has more experience, but who has performed better in 11-on-11 situations.
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Mars
snoscythe wrote:
Again, you ignore the fact that once you filter the 7-on-7 stats out from Spring camp, Nelson had the better Spring camp.

Yes, if you take away the fact that Heaps had twice the yards and TDs as Nelson, as well as a stronger arm and better throwing mechanic, Nelson had a better camp. That makes sense. I won't ignore those facts in making my opinion though.



Of course, we've all hashed this all out before. It doesn't seem like many have changed their opinion. Which is what makes this upcoming Fall so exciting!
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Ddawg
snoscythe wrote:

Nelson starting will not be the end of the world, and in my opinion, it would be the best thing for both the team and Heaps.


Bingo!!! I am in complete alignment w/ your sentiments. Experience - during a game - especially the 1st game of the season against a hungry UW team will be critical. The first Qtr. will be a blur & not making critical mistakes are as important - maybe more so - than making great plays. Rule #1 - do no harm. Don't hurt your team w/ bad decisions. I can see Bronco leaning towards Riley - unless Jake catches fire this summer - which is possible.

8)
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Cougarbib
First of all = Sprng practice is Spring practice - nothing more or less. Ask Yogi Berra. The coaches just try different things and look at different things. Heaps took half the snaps. The young bucks - like MARS, jump to the conclusion that they did this because they already knew that Heaps was so much better. Maybe people like MARS are right - I doubt it. Perhaps Bronco and the staff thought to themselves - we know Riley pretty well - he has been around for a while, we have seen what he can and cannot do in various situations, but this Heaps guy - he is brand new - let's give him more reps so we can see what he can do. Now Lark - we have seen him before - it has been a couple of years though, but we have some idea - but lets give him a few opportunities to chuck the ball and see if he still has the touch. Maybe it was something like that. I don't know. Maybe.



I don't have my calculator - but MARS seems to have overlooked or skimmed over this fact. If you roughly double Nelson's attempts it is just about the same as our boy Heaps. If you roughly double the completions, it is pretty close again. If you roughly double the yards - wait a minute - can it be true - Nelson seems to have gotten a higher yards per attempt. Maybe they are both pretty decent passers. Maybe neither is. One throws a prettier ball. Maybe they are equally effective, though. I don't know. I don't think MARS knows. I do know which one is more of a run threat, has a bit more experience and might be less likely to fumble when being sacked (early Max Hall).



I hope they are both really good and that Lark and Munns are too. That would be a nice problem to have and I would just trust the coaches to sort that all out. But us old timers, although we can't spell players names, do recall BYU seeming to be loaded with talented young QBs including some who were all everything (BO, Paul Shoemaker come to mind) or highly touted transfers (Steve Clements comes to mind) who just didn't pan out due to ability or injury. I just hope one of them is ready to go by Sept - if they all are - GRAVY.



Speaking of players that BYU and Utah chose to take a pass on locally - one of them will be the starting linebacker for UW and is getting a lot of press for being a probable star as a junior. Stuff happens.



Go Cougs
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Italics
I know it sounds harsh, but I just don't see Riley Nelson leading our team to a great season. I'd take great potential over less talented seniority any day.
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Mars
Cougarbib2 wrote:
Heaps took half the snaps. The young bucks - like MARS, jump to the conclusion that they did this because they already knew that Heaps was so much better.

I know you don't follow BYU football very closely, but Heaps took a third of the snaps, roughly the same amount as Nelson and Lark. What he did with those snaps is an entirely different story. THE story of BYU right now, in fact.
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SpiffCoug
IIRC, their (Nelson's and Heaps') passing efficiency ratings were about the same with Nelson's being slightly better. While Heaps threw more and threw more TDs, and more yards and more completions, he wasn't necessarily more efficient.
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Cougarbib
MARS - if U were capable of following anything very closely, U would realize that Heaps and Nelson were not calling the plays. Someone else, who wanted to check out certain situations called those plays and they called for Heaps to throw more and Nelson to run or hand off more. Bottom line - Nelson was asked to pass half as often cuz somebody wanted to see him do something else. WHen called upon to pass - he seems to have done just fine. Ask Kitic.



If you try to jump to so many conclusions about Spring drills, expect to see Joe MOntana's son starting for UW in the opener. He blew the socks off of Locker in Spring drills. Seriously - he did - based on the plays called for him to run vs what they had Locker do. But I think Sark - being reasonbly astute - probably thourhgt - Locker has been aorund a while, we know what he can do in almost any situation - let's focus on the new guy and see what he can do.



TO be cler - I don't know how good any of our QBs will be on the field in the Fall. I trust Bronco will make the most out of what he has. Hopefully he canpatch a D-line and linbackers together, a running game, and some tight ends. BYU has a lotof work to do this summer. That will probably motivate the coaches and the team.
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Brayden Green
I'm so tired of everyone talking about Riley's experience. What experience?!?!?! He got into games where the game was already over, and didn't even really look downfield before running the ball for 10 yards, until the defense decided to stop that, then they punted. He was a clock waster, that's it. If we want to go the air force route with guys much bigger and slower, then I see us starting Riley. Every time I have seen him throw live in a game, it has been like a wounded duck. And I know that you are all going to quote numbers like a 7 -10 stat, or something like that, but let's add the one interception near the end zone that got called back when he actually tried to throw a deep ball. I have no problem if Riley is the starter, but let's not call him something that he isn't: experienced, leader, etc.
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stuckinbig10country
There will be 3 4-star or higher recruits on the roster this fall, and none of them are named Riley Nelson.



I think that Nelson needs to be used on this team somehow. He is too good of an athlete to leave on the sidelines.



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CougarClaw
I love all this speculation...it's going to be a toss-up in the end and none of this matters



but how funny for all 'yall who are so certain where the die is going to land when you find out it's not going to be Lark, Nelson, OR Heaps.



it's....(drum roll please).... MUNNS!



I pick him only out of irony not based on any worthwhile distorted or taken-out-of-context fact. Not that either of those are used here.
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scott715
All I know about this race is what I read on the web and posters opinions, for most I would have to question their validity. I have not seen the practices or the daily interactions of the players. So really no clue except for the stats which can be taken out of context. Now we have seen Nelson last year but not his freshman year at USU. it will be interesting to see what plays out this year (on not just the opening day starter).
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Mars
kitic77 wrote:
IIRC, their (Nelson's and Heaps') passing efficiency ratings were about the same with Nelson's being slightly better. While Heaps threw more and threw more TDs, and more yards and more completions, he wasn't necessarily more efficient.

Yeah, and our QB going 10 of 20 against Washington for 100 yards and 2 TDs is equal to our QB going 20 of 40 against Washington for 200 yards and 4 TDs. Oh wait, no, it's not.



I'm being a little sarcastic, but that's the HUGE flaw in your logic. Results > Efficiency any day of the week. If Nelson throws for the same completion percentage, the same yards/throw, but has a bunch of 2-yard runs mixed in that lead to TWICE the amount of punts and HALF the amount of 1st downs and scores, well, that's a worthless comparison then isn't it?
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