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Open Spring Practice Thoughts

by SpiffCoug · 4/10/2010

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SpiffCoug
1. Heaps is good.

2. Nelson is good.

3. We have tall WRs.

4. TE will be solidly manned.

5. We don't learn much in spring ball.



1. Jake throws a very pretty ball and moves the team - especially in 7-on-7s, which don't matter all that much, since it's so different from actual 11-on-11.



2. Riley moves the team as well. His arm and timing looked more than sufficient to me.



3. Tall is good, if you're also strong and physical. We won't find that out until later in the year.



4. Devin Mahina looked very good out there.



5. Unga, Di Luigi or Jacobson didn't play in 11-on-11. So how much can you really learn about the offense without three of its main cogs?



I didn't see anything from Heaps to make me believe he should definitely be the starter. I didn't see anything from Nelson to make me believe he shouldn't be the starter. I think in order for Heaps to be the starter I need to either see compelling reasons why he should start or Nelson shouldn't.



BYU will be very effective offensively with either QB.



Only four and half more months until football and only two more months until the World Cup!
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stuckinbig10country
Wasn't at the practice, so I can't comment on that, but I would disagree on one point.



I think that if a team has 2 QBs that haven't started for the team and they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well, you go with the younger one.



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snoscythe
stuckinbig10country wrote:
I think that if a team has 2 QBs that haven't started for the team and they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well, you go with the younger one.


I disagree, especially where the intangibles of leadership, experience, grit, etc. are more important at that position than any other and the coaches have indicated the older one has the edge in those categories.



If you were talking about a receiver, tailback, nose-tackle etc., I'd agree with you. But you are talking about a true freshman (meaning redshirting a year is an option) at the one position where those things matter most.
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gmj81
I ditto all of kitic77's points. I even thought Lark looked good today, just as good as the other two. I anticipate that he'll make huge strides this summer before fall camp and will be right back in the race for at least the first couple of weeks of camp before they start narrowing down the competition again.
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Mars
stuckinbig10country wrote:
I think that if a team has 2 QBs that haven't started for the team and they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well, you go with the younger one.

Especially if the younger QB can also throw a deep pass that the older QB doesn't have a strong enough arm to be able to...
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snoscythe
Mars wrote:
I think that if a team has 2 QBs that haven't started for the team and they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well, you go with the younger one.

Especially if the younger QB can also throw a deep pass that the older QB doesn't have a strong enough arm to be able to...


Yeah, but that premise would defeat the initial premise...."they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well."



Try and stick to the OP instead of muddying the waters.
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Mars
snoscythe wrote:
Yeah, but that premise would defeat the initial premise...."they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well."
Exactly. That's the whole point of the bigger picture, isn't it?



If you want to debate Pulsipher's strengths or the like because you're bored though, go right ahead.
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snoscythe
Mars wrote:
Yeah, but that premise would defeat the initial premise...."they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well."
Exactly. That's the whole point of the bigger picture, isn't it?



If you want to debate Pulsipher's strengths or the like because you're bored though, go right ahead.


Hey, it sure beats rigging anonymous internet games so people thing I'm smart.....



Here's the Spring totals per the BYU Sports Information Department from 11-on-11 drills (you know, real football numbers):



Riley Nelson 29-of-51 for 389 yards and 5 touchdowns (PER 153)

James Lark 27-of-46 for 253 yards and no touchdowns (PER 105)

Jake Heaps 62-of-105 for 774 yards and 7 touchdowns (PER 143)



They didn't provide INTs, so of course those numbers will change a little once someone runs those down for me, but even the biggest Heaps fans have to admit that there is a race going on, even in a strict passing game. A lot of Heaps hype out of camp has been coming from 7-on-7 drills--which you would expect from a kid who has been playing 7-on-7 ball all summer the last 10 years of his life in summer camps. The Heaps crowd points to the deep ball, but fail to acknowledge that Nelson has a higher ypa and ypc than Heaps. Heaps gets the ball down the field more accurately, but the receivers are getting more YAC with Nelson in the game as the secondary has to keep an eye on Nelson. Even though Heaps may be throwing hte ball farther, the line of scrimmage is moving farther down the field with Nelson than with Heaps. I'd take a longer play over a longer pass any day of the week.
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BigCougsFan
I wasn't there, so I'm gonna ask about a few different players...



1- How did Q look at running back?

2- Kyle Van Noy

3- So'oto



Did anyone notice these players? If so... What stood out the most with them???
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craigoscarson
kitic77 wrote:
1. Heaps is good.

2. Nelson is good.

3. We have tall WRs.

4. TE will be solidly manned.

5. We don't learn much in spring ball.



1. Jake throws a very pretty ball and moves the team - especially in 7-on-7s, which don't matter all that much, since it's so different from actual 11-on-11.



2. Riley moves the team as well. His arm and timing looked more than sufficient to me.



3. Tall is good, if you're also strong and physical. We won't find that out until later in the year.



4. Devin Mahina looked very good out there.



5. Unga, Di Luigi or Jacobson didn't play in 11-on-11. So how much can you really learn about the offense without three of its main cogs?



I didn't see anything from Heaps to make me believe he should definitely be the starter. I didn't see anything from Nelson to make me believe he shouldn't be the starter. I think in order for Heaps to be the starter I need to either see compelling reasons why he should start or Nelson shouldn't.



BYU will be very effective offensively with either QB.



Only four and half more months until football and only two more months until the World Cup!




The biggest question I have that no one seems to be talking about is where's Richard Wilson? He was supposed to be our version of Kellen Winslow and he's not even being talked about on the 3 deep (if you read Jay Drews blog)
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craigoscarson
kitic77 wrote:
1. Heaps is good.

2. Nelson is good.

3. We have tall WRs.

4. TE will be solidly manned.

5. We don't learn much in spring ball.



1. Jake throws a very pretty ball and moves the team - especially in 7-on-7s, which don't matter all that much, since it's so different from actual 11-on-11.



2. Riley moves the team as well. His arm and timing looked more than sufficient to me.



3. Tall is good, if you're also strong and physical. We won't find that out until later in the year.



4. Devin Mahina looked very good out there.



5. Unga, Di Luigi or Jacobson didn't play in 11-on-11. So how much can you really learn about the offense without three of its main cogs?



I didn't see anything from Heaps to make me believe he should definitely be the starter. I didn't see anything from Nelson to make me believe he shouldn't be the starter. I think in order for Heaps to be the starter I need to either see compelling reasons why he should start or Nelson shouldn't.



BYU will be very effective offensively with either QB.



Only four and half more months until football and only two more months until the World Cup!




The biggest question I have that no one seems to be talking about is where's Richard Wilson? He was supposed to be our version of Kellen Winslow and he's not even being talked about on the 3 deep (if you read Jay Drews blog)
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crazycougar84601
BigCougsFan wrote:
I wasn't there, so I'm gonna ask about a few different players...



1- How did Q look at running back?

2- Kyle Van Noy

3- So'oto



Did anyone notice these players? If so... What stood out the most with them???


Q looked good! He had several touches and managed to push the pile once.



I seem to remember So'oto chasing down riley on a scramble



And Kyle had a play or two, Does anybody remember if he is the one who tipped the pass that was intercepted by Frazier?



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snoscythe
crazycougar84601 wrote:
And Kyle had a play or two, Does anybody remember if he is the one who tipped the pass that was intercepted by Frazier?



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My understanding is that Edwards (the TE) is the one that tipped the pass, not the LB.
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crazycougar84601
snoscythe wrote:
And Kyle had a play or two, Does anybody remember if he is the one who tipped the pass that was intercepted by Frazier?



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My understanding is that Edwards (the TE) is the one that tipped the pass, not the LB.


That's rite, I remember now. Seemed like Riley missed a few passes in the middle to the TE's in a row but hit that tight window to Mahina or Lower. I was impressed with Riley today.



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stuckinbig10country
snoscythe wrote:
I think that if a team has 2 QBs that haven't started for the team and they are evenly matched and the offense will work equally as well, you go with the younger one.


I disagree, especially where the intangibles of leadership, experience, grit, etc. are more important at that position than any other and the coaches have indicated the older one has the edge in those categories.



If you were talking about a receiver, tailback, nose-tackle etc., I'd agree with you. But you are talking about a true freshman (meaning redshirting a year is an option) at the one position where those things matter most.


If the offense will work equally as well with either QB, then those intangibles must be equal as well.



And "intangibles" don't come from age or necessarily experience. If that were the case Covey during his senior year would have started over Detmer. It was quite obvious that Detmer had those things as a freshman much more than Covey did as a junior, and probably one of the few errors that coaching staff did was starting Covey that year.



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snoscythe
stuckinbig10country wrote:
And "intangibles" don't come from age or necessarily experience. If that were the case Covey during his senior year would have started over Detmer. It was quite obvious that Detmer had those things as a freshman much more than Covey did as a junior, and probably one of the few errors that coaching staff did was starting Covey that year.



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Leadership and grit affect more than just the offense.



I'm not saying those intangibles come from experience. Bronco has said that Nelson brings the intangibles of grit and leadership that Heaps does not.
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BYUROCKS
BigCougsFan wrote:
I wasn't there, so I'm gonna ask about a few different players...



1- How did Q look at running back?

2- Kyle Van Noy

3- So'oto



Did anyone notice these players? If so... What stood out the most with them???




THE ONLY!!! Great plays were made by Q, he was awesome today.
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SpiffCoug
stuckinbig10country wrote:
And "intangibles" don't come from age or necessarily experience. If that were the case Covey during his senior year would have started over Detmer. It was quite obvious that Detmer had those things as a freshman much more than Covey did as a junior, and probably one of the few errors that coaching staff did was starting Covey that year.


Detmer wasn't a true freshman. He was a redshirt freshman. He spent a year learning, developing and proving his leadership abilities.



A few questions for anyone in the Heaps must start camp: What is so wrong about not starting Heaps? Do you think he would benefit from a redshrit?



After seeing Nelson throw last year and yesterday, I saw nothing from him that made me believe he couldn't effectively throw the ball to move the team down the field. I saw nothing from Heaps to make me believe he doesn't have room to improve and couldn't use that red-shirt to do so.



I honestly think a red-shirt is in Heaps and BYU's best interest. QBs do well with time to learn and understand a system. I think Heaps is going to be a spectacular QB. I just think he could be spectacular from the beginning if he's not thrown in the fire on day 1.





Craig, you asked about Richard Wilson. He was on the sideline and didn't participate. I think he was injured. Mahina looked like a beast out there. He was HUGE and ran very good routes. If Mahina develops at TE, I could see Wilson being moved back to the D.
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SpiffCoug
For the record, I'm almost always in favor of redshirting QBs. I thought John Beck would have been well served to have red-shirted in 2003. Matt Berry was more than a decent enough QB to man the position in 2003 - granted he got hurt and Crowton's hand may have been forced a bit. But For BYU's program, an RS would have done Beck well. Detmer was well served by an RS. Bosco RS'd. Young RS'd. McMahon RS'd.



I didn't see anything from Heaps to make me think he couldn't use an RS to improve his already high level of QBing. If I were a BYU coach, I would need to see compelling reasons to either why I should play Heaps now and/or why I shouldn't play Nelson.
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byutx
kitic77 wrote:
And "intangibles" don't come from age or necessarily experience. If that were the case Covey during his senior year would have started over Detmer. It was quite obvious that Detmer had those things as a freshman much more than Covey did as a junior, and probably one of the few errors that coaching staff did was starting Covey that year.


Detmer wasn't a true freshman. He was a redshirt freshman. He spent a year learning, developing and proving his leadership abilities.


Also, don't forget Ty "redshirted" in Highschool (IIRC, he was held back to get a bit bigger, which is somewhat common in Texas), so he was 2 years more mature than Heaps. At that age, that extra year is a huge difference.
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