alcohol strikes Notre Dame before they even get to campus

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5053059



This is really sad; but all I could think is how glad I am that we have the honor code; and that it might have saved a life or two in the time that BYU sports has been around.



Notre Dame has some serious alcohol issues and it starts long before they even wear the dome.

Honor code nothin'! Dude was 17 freaking years old, any alcohol he was drinking was done so illegally.



Still sad though, condolences to his family.

I guess I understand talking about this as sad but at the same time I keep feeling that it is more like I am sorry that your child was so stupid that he removed himself from the gene pool. If you drink yourself stupid you are responsibly for your stupid actions.

There is a pretty decent amout of drinking going on at BYU .... football team and regular students........

Okay, kfilly20, I'll bite...who on the current football team roster is drinking alcohol? Name them and tell us how often they do it...or name the last time you were with them when they were drinking and the circumstances...and tell us if you were or were not drinking alcohol with them...and whether you reported the honor code violation if you are a BYU student. I don't doubt some BYU students may drink alcohol but I think a blanket statement like the one you've made regarding the football team deserves some follow up information. In the ten years I was on campus the amount of times I saw an intoxicated BYU student on campus or anywhere else close by was...zero; likewise the amount of times I smelled alcohol on the breath of a BYU student. I think if you've got first hand knowledge you'll give us the particulars...especially if it happens on the current football team as often as you may be suggesting. If you don't tell us who on the team is drinking and the circumstances then I think you have no credibility and enjoy gossip. What say you?!

BYUby40 wrote:
In the ten years I was on campus

Are you a doctor yet?

First off, I absolutely do not have to out any of them. I am not their bishop, parent, or dean and neither are you. I am not mormon, I do drink, I have drank with people that attend BYU and those on the football team. I can and absolutely do have much much more inside first hand experience and information on said topic than you. Do you really think that students get drunk and go wander around campus and attend classes drunk? Really? You seem intelligent based on the 10 years at BYU. All I'm saying is every school has alcohol problems, albeit BYU has a much smaller one than almost if not all other schools. But we must not crucify a 17 year old kid who made a mistake and lost his life and then place ourselves on a pedestal for all those with differnt ideals and beliefs to to look up at and worship. The chances of something tragic like this happening at BYU are not that much smaller than at other schools. Oh and I would never ever rat someone out for drinking although they attend BYU, I do not go there and it is not any of my business, neither is it yours. BYU students/athletes are not perfect and should not be placed on pedestals, they are kids who make mistakes. I cannot believe how many people out there do not understand this. Also drinking alcohol does not make you a bad person, father, son, or friend. Go cougars. I need a beer now.

kfilly20 wrote:
Also drinking alcohol does not make you a bad person, father, son, or friend. Go cougars. I need a beer now.

I understand most of what you're saying. Nobody's perfect. But in the case of every BYU student you have ever drunk with, they are commitment breakers and liars. Not all the time, and not forever, but certainly for then. And that doesn't make them bad people like a rapist, thief, or murderer kind of bad people. But it does indicate their word means nothing.

All I was trying to point out with my first comment was that we should worry about our own before we set out on condemning others. Now as far as liars and such, I agree to a point. I generally don't like the idea of religion permeating every aspect of our lives, school, government. So maybe thats why I don't go there, but if a kid wants a good education while playing for a great football team, and he isnt harming anyone then if he can live with his "lies" then to each his own. Not my problem nor yours.

kfilly20 wrote:
There is a pretty decent amout of drinking going on at BYU .... football team and regular students........

A pretty decent amount huh? Well that's a huge blanket statement if I've ever heard one. Maybe you're being over dramatic or maybe you don't know what "a decent amount" really implies. If I were to say that I have "a decent amount" of gas left in my car how much would you say I have left? To me it means that I have 30-40% left, 25% maybe. So when you say there is "a decent amount" of drinking going on at BYU what it sounds like is that 25-40% of BYU students drink. Reality is that .5-1% of BYU students drink. That is between 165-330 students.



And no it's not your job to out these kids for honor code violations but apparently it's your job, as an "expert", to make blanket statements about the football team and university as a whole that are clearly overblown and over dramatic. Just don't be too surprised when somebody calls you on it.

I'd put it at 2% or so, maybe 3%. I think more drinking goes on than we think, but FAR less than the average university outside this state where it is probably 95%. And all things considered, if is is 3%, that is still extremely low. And it is safe to say that the athletics department is affected by this. History says it is. Happened under Coach Rose, under Bronco, Under LaVell, under the track team, under every coach at BYU. The HC Standard is just that, a standard. People fail with standards, but that does not mean you abandon them. Just means some won't cut it. Such is life.

1. It's naive to think that no form of drinking/debauchery/etc occurs at BYU, whether among the regular students or the athletes.



2. It also stands to reason that, whatever DOES occur among BYU students/athletes, it's substantially lower than the majority of universities.



I do grow annoyed when people outside of BYU (not directed at you, kfilly) feel like they're blowing the lid on some shocking story when they mention that their ex-girlfriend got high with some d-line reserve, or that you can find a drug culture in Provo, or that they attended a kegger in a dorm room full of RMs, etc. It happens. BYU is a gathering of 35,000 kids, mostly in the 18-25 realm, with varying perspectives on life and free agency. Stuff will happen. Same with the football team. The fruit of the HC is the general effect, not the individual outliers or exceptions.



I think the original assertion that this thread made was, thanks to the HC, there is substantially LESS substance abuse on the team. If you have ANY connection to the team (and a good # of people here do), you can probably list at least one guy on the team who ain't living right on or off the field. But BYU football also produces enough "pleasantly surprising" all-around good guys (by the LDS paradigm) that it really isn't a story to single them out anymore. That's something to be proud of.

I worded a lot of this poorly. A decent amount = a lot more than you think. I also get annoyed with people acting as if BYU as a football team and as a whole has no problems and that the sinners outside of provo need are somehow less moral or intelligent. Would you consider the statement "Our stripling warriors on the football team" a blanket statement? I would. Also I would say its a bit more than .5 to 1 % . Once again sorry for my poor phrasing.