(NOT) Naming a starting QB

Bronco's recently reported comments that...



1. All of Spring Practice is taken together

2. Spring game is just another practice

3. Probably won't name a starter until Fall



...compared to previously stated feelings that...

1. Leadership is crucial to a team

2. Off-season work is maximized when well defined leadership is in place

3. Because of 1 and 2, Bronco prefers to have a starter named at the end of Spring



...lead me to conclude the following:



1. No QB is showing distinction, and specifically neither Nelson nor Heaps seems to be separating themselves from the pack.

2. Heaps won't start unless things change and Bronco doesn't expect to see change until fall if at all. Tie goes to the experienced guy.

3. All QBs have a lot of work to do, so much, in fact, that Bronco is encouraging all of them to have the hardest off-season workout of their lives so that someone. ANYONE can step up and fill a big void left by Max.



And one more which is a bit of a speculative reach...



4 a. Either Bronco is disappointed with where Nelson is at this point because he can't name him starter for the off-season, and therefore he's holding out hope for Heaps, or...

4 b. Heaps is a hot-headed primadonna who might actually make problems for the team, or (heaven forbid) even transfer if he doesn't get to start, and Bronco's trying to manage that by not naming a starter until fall.

Or it could be

5. Bronco, after seeing that Max Hall's leadership didn't positively affect the team in the same way John Beck's did, changed his opinion about how essential a quarterback's leadership is to the team's development



I'm not suggesting this is the case, but I think it's a possibility.

Yzzazz wrote:
4 b. Heaps is a hot-headed primadonna who might actually make problems for the team, or (heaven forbid) even transfer if he doesn't get to start, and Bronco's trying to manage that by not naming a starter until fall.

Massive speculation, borderline inappropriate to throw out there. Is there proof of this, your hunch, or just fearing the worst? I read Doman's quote that keeps getting posted and many assume it relates to Heaps but it might not.

Heaps is certainly showing distinction. Just look at the cumulative stats for the spring. He's blowing the other two out of the water. That said, there are a whole lot of other factors that will go into the decision. We still don't know if Heaps will be able to continue to have similar success when he's got a D1 defense bearing down on him. But all that will shake out in good time. I'm glad Bronco isn't going to name a starter until after fall camp. That means that there will be plenty more competition and bar-raising before the starter is named. But to say that no one is separating themselves is pretty inaccurate. Even most of the beat writers have already made their predictions that Heaps will be the guy based on how he's looked this spring.



And where do people keep coming up with this crap about Heaps 'primadonna' attitude? There has been nothing in the press to support that claim. And I've spoken with players that say they thought the kid was going to come in all cocky and entitled and said that they couldn't have been more wrong about the kid. And every player and coach comment in the press has been extremely complimentary of the Jake.

The problem is in assuming that Bronco is referring to one player when he talks about leadership. From what I've heard, Harvey and the seasoned linemen as well as Nelson have been superb in keeping the offense on task and doing what needs to be done, all without a starter being named. As long as the leadership to have an effective summer is in place, why rush naming a starter when you have all summer to let things shake out?

I agree sno. The QB does not always have to be the leader of the offense. It helps when that player has those leadership skills, but as long as the unit has it, that is what matters most. I expect that all 3 of those guys fighting it out have some of those skills though. They all played the position for years. But at the end of the day. it is about the team competing and gelling as a unit.

Yzzazz wrote:
Bronco's recently reported comments that...



1. All of Spring Practice is taken together

2. Spring game is just another practice

3. Probably won't name a starter until Fall



...compared to previously stated feelings that...

1. Leadership is crucial to a team

2. Off-season work is maximized when well defined leadership is in place

3. Because of 1 and 2, Bronco prefers to have a starter named at the end of Spring



...lead me to conclude the following:



1. No QB is showing distinction, and specifically neither Nelson nor Heaps seems to be separating themselves from the pack.

2. Heaps won't start unless things change and Bronco doesn't expect to see change until fall if at all. Tie goes to the experienced guy.

3. All QBs have a lot of work to do, so much, in fact, that Bronco is encouraging all of them to have the hardest off-season workout of their lives so that someone. ANYONE can step up and fill a big void left by Max.



And one more which is a bit of a speculative reach...



4 a. Either Bronco is disappointed with where Nelson is at this point because he can't name him starter for the off-season, and therefore he's holding out hope for Heaps, or...

4 b. Heaps is a hot-headed primadonna who might actually make problems for the team, or (heaven forbid) even transfer if he doesn't get to start, and Bronco's trying to manage that by not naming a starter until fall.

Yazazz - quite the leap.... and much like your early season historical post that last years defense was the best in BYU history (72 hours before Florida State authors that ruthless beatdown), you're wrong here too.



The only qb that had a chance to win the job in the spring was Riley Nelson and he hasn't done it... that's all this means.



Where I think you're off, is that while Nelson was given the best chance to win the job in the spring; he hasn't done it; he hasnt' made the throws or distinguished himself to the point of taking the job... so instead of Bronco and crew shooting holes in the dreams of a few talented guys, he let's the competition go through summer and fall.... leaving open the unprecendented possibility of a true freshman taking the job.



Why not throw out the old rules? This is new territory for Bronco, he has never been put in a position that starting a true freshman might be the best decision. You simply cannot ask a true frosh to be the leader of a team or offense (I mean Jake should be a senior in high school still) Jake has enough on his table as a true frosh trying to learn the offense and get to know his teammates; how can you possibly ask a kid that doesn't even know everyone to be THE leader? He has a better chance of being the starting qb than being "the leader"



I can believe that there may be some entitlement issues with the studly freshmen coming in, but that all ends when practice starts; for Bronco and crew this is nothing else. Every new class of players have expectations. One notable player that had serious entitlement issues early on was Jordan Pendleton; all he's done since is make us think he could leave BYU on (or above) the linebacker pedastal left by guys like Bryan Kehl, Cameron Jensen, and David Nixon. All coaches deal with young immature entitled kids. This doesn't make them primadonnas.



Nothing Heaps has done that has been noteworthy has made me believe that he's been anything but a typical talented true freshman trying to compete for early playing time. He's been called the brightest and hardest working player in every elite national camp that he's attended including all american games, so why would anyone believe that he's been any different in spring camp?



If true freshmen are going to start or have serious play time, you have to make them earn it (spring, summer, and fall) In doing so you avoid making a premature decision, or ostracizing the more experienced players.



The coaches were simply postering to make sure that every talented young player knows that they need to learn their place. It would make little sense to name a true freshman (i.e. Heaps) right now, even if he was head and tails the best player in spring; which is why I think your conclusions hold very little water.



The only qb that had a chance to win the job in the spring was Riley Nelson and he hasn't done it... that's all this means.

craigoscarson wrote:

...

And one more which is a bit of a speculative reach...



4 a. Either Bronco is disappointed with where Nelson is at this point because he can't name him starter for the off-season, and therefore he's holding out hope for Heaps, or...

4 b. Heaps is a hot-headed primadonna who might actually make problems for the team, or (heaven forbid) even transfer if he doesn't get to start, and Bronco's trying to manage that by not naming a starter until fall.

Yazazz - quite the leap.... and much like your early season historical post that last years defense was the best in BYU history (72 hours before Florida State authors that ruthless beatdown), you're wrong here too.

:D

So Craig, thanks for that reminder. I will remind you that I thought the defense MIGHT TURN OUT to be the best in BYU history. It didn't.



But as with this case, though I am certainly way out on a limb with 4b, I try to think the unthinkable once in awhile to see if it ever rings true. Getting blown out by FSU didn't ring true to anyone at the time. But that's what happened. Heaps having issues doesn't sound like the Heaps we've read/watched in media coverage, but that doesn't disqualify the possibility. I agree, though 4b is way out there, but 4a is not. You seem to agree.

The only qb that had a chance to win the job in the spring was Riley Nelson and he hasn't done it... that's all this means.



Where I think you're off, is that while Nelson was given the best chance to win the job in the spring; he hasn't done it; he hasnt' made the throws or distinguished himself to the point of taking the job... so instead of Bronco and crew shooting holes in the dreams of a few talented guys, he let's the competition go through summer and fall.... leaving open the unprecendented possibility of a true freshman taking the job.

Wait why am i off with 4a? You just restated me. Anyway...

Why not throw out the old rules? This is new territory for Bronco,

It's a good thing you didn't put the words 'throw out' , 'rules' and 'Bronco' all in the same sentence because then YOU'D be the one who was way out there. Since you actually used two sentences, I'll keep listening.

...he has never been put in a position that starting a true freshman might be the best decision. You simply cannot ask a true frosh to be the leader of a team or offense (I mean Jake should be a senior in high school still) Jake has enough on his table as a true frosh trying to learn the offense and get to know his teammates; how can you possibly ask a kid that doesn't even know everyone to be THE leader? He has a better chance of being the starting qb than being "the leader"



I can believe that there may be some entitlement issues with the studly freshmen coming in, but that all ends when practice starts; for Bronco and crew this is nothing else. Every new class of players have expectations. One notable player that had serious entitlement issues early on was Jordan Pendleton; all he's done since is make us think he could leave BYU on (or above) the linebacker pedastal left by guys like Bryan Kehl, Cameron Jensen, and David Nixon. All coaches deal with young immature entitled kids. This doesn't make them primadonnas.



Nothing Heaps has done that has been noteworthy has made me believe that he's been anything but a typical talented true freshman trying to compete for early playing time. He's been called the brightest and hardest working player in every elite national camp that he's attended including all american games, so why would anyone believe that he's been any different in spring camp?



If true freshmen are going to start or have serious play time, you have to make them earn it (spring, summer, and fall) In doing so you avoid making a premature decision, or ostracizing the more experienced players.



The coaches were simply postering to make sure that every talented young player knows that they need to learn their place. It would make little sense to name a true freshman (i.e. Heaps) right now, even if he was head and tails the best player in spring; which is why I think your conclusions hold very little water.



The only qb that had a chance to win the job in the spring was Riley Nelson and he hasn't done it... that's all this means.

Okay, but that's a big deal. Because if Riley hasn't won it then either Jake is REALLY GOOD (and Bronco just can't play the Pete Carroll method), or (more likely) Riley is really mediocre.



Too early to say, but it may not bode well for the upcoming season.

gmj81 wrote:



And where do people keep coming up with this crap about Heaps 'primadonna' attitude? .

Ask Sno. He is the biggest proponent of this idea.

jonnylingo wrote:

And where do people keep coming up with this crap about Heaps 'primadonna' attitude? .

Ask Sno. He is the biggest proponent of this idea.

In his first month on campus, Jake skipped a few voluntary workouts, showed up late to others, and then opted out of some of the more strenuous drills. A couple seniors on the team pulled Jake aside and had some words with him about the program expectations, and Heaps has been a model citizen ever since, but not all of the offensive players have bought into the reformed Heaps yet. Takes a while for all of the poison to get out of the well.



Some people on other boards are now saying Heaps was sick, but I have a hard time believing that no one would mention it until two months later, and no one I've talked to who is in a position to know has said anything about Heaps being sick.



As far as substantiation, the best I can provide is Doman's veiled reference a few days ago when he said that "If it's not about BYU, if it's not about this team and this place, they won't start. That would be the most important criteria. I don't care how good they are, or who they are, or if they're the best player out there. If it isn't about the team, they're not going to play. They know that."



I have a hard time finding any other context for this comment than Jake's missteps the first few weeks. I haven't heard anything else out of camp that would indicate any other quarterback having a team mentality problem. If anyone else has, I'd be glad to hear it. Otherwise, Doman's comment just doesn't make sense.

gmj81 wrote:
Heaps is certainly showing distinction. Just look at the cumulative stats for the spring. He's blowing the other two out of the water. ...

If that were true, I am surprised that Bronco would be hedging ("not likely starter named until fall"). While Jake's stats have been good last week, Monday's 3 of 8 compared to Riley's 2 of 6 doesn't sound like standout performance, and may be more indicative overall of what the coaches are seeing.



For my part the "prima donna" comment has nothing to do with what I have seen from Jake. In fact, I would be quite surprised if it were true. I'm simply trying to fit the puzzle pieces together here. I have a hard time buying that it is no big deal for Bronco to change his mind about naming a starter. It means something.



No matter what it means, however, I think it spells a possible step down in expectations for the season. I know, I know, it's only spring. Lots can happen before August.

Yzzazz wrote:

Heaps is certainly showing distinction. Just look at the cumulative stats for the spring. He's blowing the other two out of the water. ...

If that were true, I am surprised that Bronco would be hedging ("not likely starter named until fall"). While Jake's stats have been good last week, Monday's 3 of 8 compared to Riley's 2 of 6 doesn't sound like standout performance, and may be more indicative overall of what the coaches are seeing.



For my part the "prima donna" comment has nothing to do with what I have seen from Jake. In fact, I would be quite surprised if it were true. I'm simply trying to fit the puzzle pieces together here. I have a hard time buying that it is no big deal for Bronco to change his mind about naming a starter. It means something.



No matter what it means, however, I think it spells a possible step down in expectations for the season. I know, I know, it's only spring. Lots can happen before August.

I think you simply underestimate how hard it is to tap a true freshman (arguably stil a senior in high school) during spring ball

Yzzazz wrote:

Heaps is certainly showing distinction. Just look at the cumulative stats for the spring. He's blowing the other two out of the water. ...

If that were true, I am surprised that Bronco would be hedging ("not likely starter named until fall"). While Jake's stats have been good last week, Monday's 3 of 8 compared to Riley's 2 of 6 doesn't sound like standout performance, and may be more indicative overall of what the coaches are seeing.



For my part the "prima donna" comment has nothing to do with what I have seen from Jake. In fact, I would be quite surprised if it were true. I'm simply trying to fit the puzzle pieces together here. I have a hard time buying that it is no big deal for Bronco to change his mind about naming a starter. It means something.



No matter what it means, however, I think it spells a possible step down in expectations for the season. I know, I know, it's only spring. Lots can happen before August.

Yzzazz, you're so silly. Don't you know that Spring Ball is the be-all-end-all of what will happen in the fall? I mean, the stars of last spring were far and away the biggest story lines in the Fall. Who can forget the breakout performance of Landon Jaussi, the game-changing performances by Vic-So'oto, the playmaking ability of Tyler Kozlowski and the formidable presence of Rick Wolfley--all the Spring stars last year??? How dare you question Heaps' numbers. Shame on you Yzzazz. Shame shame.

craigoscarson wrote:
...



I think you simply underestimate how hard it is to tap a true freshman (arguably stil a senior in high school) during spring ball

Soooo...you're saying Heaps is doing famously, but Bronco just...can't...pull...the trigger and name him. It couldn't possibly be because Heaps is, perhaps, just not the complete package. I think it far easier to believe that Heaps, talented though he may be, isn't all he needs to be to lead the team--yet. Why is that a surprise?



I would be MORE surprised to think it was just a case of Bronco having jitters.

I don't know why we are acting as though there is some huge precedent for Bronco always naming a starter. It has only happened once, and the decision was made easy when one of the two contenders blew his ankle out.



If Nelson or Heaps suffers a season ending injury then we may get a starter named, but I certainly don't want that to happen. Plus as someone else said, only Nelson was a likely candidate for locking down the starting position in spring. Heaps may have promise, but he is up against an experienced junior and so for him to win the starting job before he would have traditionally graduated from high school would be pretty remarkable.



I like the decision to hold off on naming a starter. It gives Heaps, Lark and Munns (my local boy) more time to challenge Nelson for the position.



I don't think the sky is falling.

Yzzazz wrote:

...



I think you simply underestimate how hard it is to tap a true freshman (arguably stil a senior in high school) during spring ball

Soooo...you're saying Heaps is doing famously, but Bronco just...can't...pull...the trigger and name him. It couldn't possibly be because Heaps is, perhaps, just not the complete package. I think it far easier to believe that Heaps, talented though he may be, isn't all he needs to be to lead the team--yet. Why is that a surprise?



I would be MORE surprised to think it was just a case of Bronco having jitters.

I think it's more about respect for the older players; and the desire for the guys to find a level of improvement over the summer that the competition may create; again the only thing we know is that Nelson has not won the job, yet. He was the only guy I expected could potentially take the job in the spring. I figured if Heaps was to become the starter, that'd it'd have to be a no brainer after spring summer and fall... you won't find a single post in the last 2 years from me giving Heaps the job.



Nothing I said in this thread lends to the thought that Heaps is doing famously and is the complete package (he's a baby in college football terms, I dont' believe a freshman can be the complete package at qb); however if Nelson was the complete package and was doing famously, we'd have a starter named by now.



Turner Gill the new Kansas coach said on the radio today that he won't name a single starter in the spring because he wants guys to earn that position over the summer and in the fall. I guess I just don't see that as a bad thing.



I'm not in favor of any true freshman qb starting and I'm not particularly in the Heaps to start bandwagon for next year; however I just don't think that there has to be a negative connotation to the fact that Bronco hasn't pegged a starter; and the conclusions you make could be no more far fetched than to say that Bronco wants competition and won't name a true frosh as the starting qb in the spring no matter what his performance may be.



The only thing I think we can conclude, is that Riley Nelson has not created any space between himself and the others... everything else is simply grasping for straws; and the sentiment in the original post is incredibly negative and I guess I just don't see it.



btw for those worried about Heaps getting upset and transferring if he doesn't get the job; you might want to talk to his family, because they've already started getting ready to move to Provo permanently.

Yzzazz wrote:

Heaps is certainly showing distinction. Just look at the cumulative stats for the spring. He's blowing the other two out of the water. ...

If that were true, I am surprised that Bronco would be hedging ("not likely starter named until fall"). While Jake's stats have been good last week, Monday's 3 of 8 compared to Riley's 2 of 6 doesn't sound like standout performance, and may be more indicative overall of what the coaches are seeing.



For my part the "prima donna" comment has nothing to do with what I have seen from Jake. In fact, I would be quite surprised if it were true. I'm simply trying to fit the puzzle pieces together here. I have a hard time buying that it is no big deal for Bronco to change his mind about naming a starter. It means something.



No matter what it means, however, I think it spells a possible step down in expectations for the season. I know, I know, it's only spring. Lots can happen before August.

That 3-8 was really Heaps' first "bad" day this spring. I'm not saying he's perfect or that we should crown him the starter right now. I just think that he has easily distinguished himself as the leader (in terms of the QB battle) at this point and put the pressure on the other two to perform or lose their chance. Lark still is shaking off the mission rust but could easily make a big jump in progress here soon. Riley it appears just needs to start taking some chances with his arm because if defenses know he'll cut out and run once his first read is covered, he'll quickly lose his effectiveness as a mobile QB.



I agree with Craig's assessment here. The only one who could have possibly locked up the job in the spring would have been Nelson. Since he hasn't done that, there is no need to create divisions among the team who may have settled in on who they think ought to start already. What's more, as others have said, you can't expect Heaps to be a team leader right away, be it in summer workouts or the 2010 season. Not that I think he's not up for the task. It's clear for anyone to see who's followed him the past two years that he has some fine leadership qualities. But why put that pressure on him right away? Just let him worry about moving the offense and let the seniors worry about being the "leaders". So in not naming a starter, the coaches have kept the older guys in the competition, kept anyone from getting lazy or coasting, and prevent any dissension amongst the team until everyone can clearly see who gives the team the best chance to win.

To paraphrase a pro-Heaps poster, "Doesn't Bronco know that by failing to name Heaps the starter he is not only preventing the program from progressing, he is also ruining any chance of having a successful 2010 season. Heaps is simply the best player ever to don the BYU blue. To not name him the starter today is a travesty, a sham and a mockery. It's a traveshamockey!



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kitic77 wrote:
To paraphrase a pro-Heaps poster, "Doesn't Bronco know that by failing to name Heaps the starter he is not only preventing the program from progressing, he is also ruining any chance of having a successful 2010 season. Heaps is simply the best player ever to don the BYU blue. To not name him the starter today is a travesy, a sham and a mockery. It's a traveshamockey!



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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Careful you don't want to awaken the wrath of the elderly.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700020775/Nelson-Heaps-have-edge-at-QB.html



Bronco is saying some seperation is happening, with Heaps and Neilson taking the lead. Jake is leading the offense to the endzone, while Riley has grit and leadership.



I feel that the best thing for the offense is to not name a starter at this time. All three quarterbacks need to be pushed to improve, and the offense to unite during summer training. From the articles I've read in the DNews, it sounds that the QBs are united, and helping each other out. This is the best thing to help all the players, and it will make life easier in case a QB goes down this year. I also think this will give the older members of the offense, Harvey and Oline a chance to be the leaders on the team, for people to look to what we know will be there in the fall, instead of looking to the variable compound of quarterback.



Second Week of fall camp we'll learn who the starter is.