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ESPN article on Heaps and QB race

by Lawboy · 3/16/2010

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Lawboy
Decent read. I am so not feeling Nelson for the BYU starter right now. His USU stats were crap--about 120 ypg. Ouch.



http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/20452/a-brief-look-at-the-byu-qb-race



Riley Nelson, Jr.



Nelson was Hall’s backup last season after transferring to BYU from Utah State upon return from his mission. Nelson appeared in seven games last season and completed 7 of 10 passes for 99 yards and a touchdown. He also rushed for 122 yards and three touchdowns on 21 carries.



During his only season at Utah State in 2006, Nelson was a captain as a true freshman and started the final eight games of the season. He threw for 925 yards and six touchdowns for the Aggies.



James Lark, So.



Lark redshirted the 2006 season before leaving for his mission in Russia.



As a senior at Pine View High in St. George, Utah, Lark threw for 3,248 yards and 36 touchdowns and was a Salt Lake Tribune and Deseret News first-team all-state selection.



For his high school career, Lark finished with 6,739 passing yards, third most in state history and tied the state mark with 79 career touchdown passes.



Jake Heaps, Fr.



The Parade All-American led Skyline High School (Issaquah, Wash.) to three consecutive state titles. He completed 213 of 352 passes for 3,191 yards and 45 touchdowns as a senior and threw four touchdown passes in the state title game.



He was a 2009 first-team all-state quarterback, AP Washington State Player of the Year and a USA Today All-America first team selection.



For his career, Heaps threw for 9,196 yards, 114 touchdowns and just 18 interceptions. He also rushed for 30 scores.
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snoscythe
Lawboy wrote:
Decent read. I am so not feeling Nelson for the BYU starter right now. His USU stats were crap--about 120 ypg. Ouch.




Only about 120 ypg more than Heaps or Lark have done in college. ;)
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Lawboy
It was Utah State, but not sure that is the type of passing attack we really want. 220 would be ok with a 200 ypg rush attack. But 120? That is awful. Just awful.



I will be shocked if Riley starts. I think Lark and Heaps are the front runners. Actually, this reminds me of the U QB race last year, where they had the running QB come in as the man with the job, but by the end of camp, Louks sat #3 on the depth chart, then was off to Nevada. Nelson will stay at BYU, but I bet he is #3 by fall camp. Let's not forget that Nelson was really the #3 QB last year on the roster, but only became #2 because Gaskins gave it to him. And both Lark and Heaps are better than Gaskins. Just sayin.
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Ddawg
Lawboy wrote:
I am so not feeling Nelson for the BYU starter right now. His USU stats were crap--about 120 ypg. Ouch.


Well - considering it was Utah St., not an overpowering offensive unit. Who knows what kind of protection he got. Who knows what kind of a running attack they had. And finally - what offensive scheme did they have??? What was the Offensive Cordinator trying to achieve: passing vs. rushing. Who knows what was happening?



I submit - we don't know those things. I would also submit - Riley Nelson - given the BYU system, better coaches, better offensive scheme, a few more years to evolve & develop, and better weapons surrounding him - will perform at a higher level than @ Utah St. (by quite a bit).



That said - Bronco will make the right call for the team. It's all good.

:crazy:
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Y&Brit
When I saw Graham Watson it became a scan read, but it must have been difficult for her not to mention: utah, tcu, fresno, boise, and the all-time best quarterback in the history of the game from Central Michigan
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blue42
Lawboy wrote:
It was Utah State, but not sure that is the type of passing attack we really want. 220 would be ok with a 200 ypg rush attack. But 120? That is awful. Just awful.



I will be shocked if Riley starts. I think Lark and Heaps are the front runners. Actually, this reminds me of the U QB race last year, where they had the running QB come in as the man with the job, but by the end of camp, Louks sat #3 on the depth chart, then was off to Nevada. Nelson will stay at BYU, but I bet he is #3 by fall camp. Let's not forget that Nelson was really the #3 QB last year on the roster, but only became #2 because Gaskins gave it to him. And both Lark and Heaps are better than Gaskins. Just sayin.


Lawboy, I really don't think you know too much about Utah St football or you just don't like Riley, I'm thinking it might be a little bit of both. Utah St is absolutely pathetic on both offense and defense especially in 2006.



That year they got shut out 4 times but only once when Riley started. He was the teams leading passer and second leading rusher. They only scored 130 points the entire year but 109 of those were in the games that Riley started. The 7 games Riley started the team had 2030 total yards with Riley accounting for 1215 of those yards almost 60% of the teams total yards. Statiscally he was the only thing Utah St had going for it that year, pretty tough for a true freshman QB on a horrible team.



Kind of reminds me of John Beck his rookie year with Miami, you can't make many plays when you are flat on your back.



I will say that if you put Heaps or Lark or even Hall in that same situation their numbers wouldn't be much different because the team was so horrible, one person, no matter how good they are doesn't change an entire team.



Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Riley is the best thing to step on the field or should be the starter, but I think he is a little better than you are giving him credit for.
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Ddawg
blue42 wrote:
It was Utah State, but not sure that is the type of passing attack we really want. 220 would be ok with a 200 ypg rush attack. But 120? That is awful. Just awful.



I will be shocked if Riley starts. I think Lark and Heaps are the front runners. Actually, this reminds me of the U QB race last year, where they had the running QB come in as the man with the job, but by the end of camp, Louks sat #3 on the depth chart, then was off to Nevada. Nelson will stay at BYU, but I bet he is #3 by fall camp. Let's not forget that Nelson was really the #3 QB last year on the roster, but only became #2 because Gaskins gave it to him. And both Lark and Heaps are better than Gaskins. Just sayin.


Lawboy, I really don't think you know too much about Utah St football or you just don't like Riley, I'm thinking it might be a little bit of both. Utah St is absolutely pathetic on both offense and defense especially in 2006.



That year they got shut out 4 times but only once when Riley started. He was the teams leading passer and second leading rusher. They only scored 130 points the entire year but 109 of those were in the games that Riley started. The 7 games Riley started the team had 2030 total yards with Riley accounting for 1215 of those yards almost 60% of the teams total yards. Statiscally he was the only thing Utah St had going for it that year, pretty tough for a true freshman QB on a horrible team.



Kind of reminds me of John Beck his rookie year with Miami, you can't make many plays when you are flat on your back.



I will say that if you put Heaps or Lark or even Hall in that same situation their numbers wouldn't be much different because the team was so horrible, one person, no matter how good they are doesn't change an entire team.



Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Riley is the best thing to step on the field or should be the starter, but I think he is a little better than you are giving him credit for.


Good post - informative. As I suspected - just a gut feeling. Riley has a lot to offer Cougar football. Maybe not as a starting

QB - but then again - maybe as a starting QB this year - who knows. Even Bronco does not know. This is fun to watch though. Good drama. Athletic competition at it's best.
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Lawboy
blue42, I do not know Riley Nelson, never met the kid, and do not know a thing about him personally. So to infer I have some type of personal thing against him is ridiculous at best. Just basing my opinions off what he has done on the football field. Which is why I post here-because I want BYU to win on the footballl field.



I get it USU is not BYU. But I also get that they play in the WAC, where the competition is pretty poor as well, especially the defenses in that conference. And USU, although not great when he was there, he didn't exactly make them too much better, did he. I base it upon that. I think it is a fair assessment as well. Did he wow you last year with his play? His downfield passing and pocket instincts underwhelmed me last season. I know many other posters on this forum agree with that assessment, based upon what they saw out of him o the field.
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snoscythe
Lawboy wrote:
USU, although not great when he was there, he didn't exactly make them too much better, did he.


USU in 2006 under Leon Jackson III = 21 points in 4.75 games (that's less than 4.5 points per game) with 3 shut outs.



USU in 2006 under Riley Nelson = 108 points in 7.25 games (14.8 ppg) with one shut out.





I would say Riley Nelson made them significantly better---not good----but significantly better. If you can put one player on the field that's going to make your team 10 points better on average, that kid has something working for him.



His passer rating of 115 was by no means great, but it was better than that of fellow freshman QB Matt Stafford at UGA that season, as well as better than Tom Brandstater at Fresno State, and Reggie Ball at GT.....all of whom seemed to turn out pretty okay despite having worse seasons with less to work with than Riley Nelson.
M
Mars


Riley has the highest completion percentage by far two days into fall camp.

Heaps has by far the strongest arm. Just amazing.

Lark is struggling so far. Makes me wonder just how much Munns will struggle coming off of HIS mission.
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jonnylingo
Riley is an amazing athlete. whatever he is playing i hope he sees the field. the coaches have a difficult decision on their hands.
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cougarsunited
snoscythe wrote:
Decent read. I am so not feeling Nelson for the BYU starter right now. His USU stats were crap--about 120 ypg. Ouch.




Only about 120 ypg more than Heaps or Lark have done in college. ;)


Which after the second quarter of the first game means NOTHING...
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snoscythe
cougarsunited wrote:
Lawboy wrote:
Decent read. I am so not feeling Nelson for the BYU starter right now. His USU stats were crap--about 120 ypg. Ouch.




Only about 120 ypg more than Heaps or Lark have done in college. ;)


Which after the second quarter of the first game means NOTHING...


You're right....Nelson could have more than 120 yards by then. ;)
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Lawboy
Mars wrote:


Riley has the highest completion percentage by far two days into fall camp.

Heaps has by far the strongest arm. Just amazing.

Lark is struggling so far. Makes me wonder just how much Munns will struggle coming off of HIS mission.


Heaps has the strongest arm? Wow. And arm strength is not considered one of his strengths, either. I had heard that Lark had a cannon, but perhaps that is not true. We know Riley is not a strong arm guy, so no surprise there. Of course, Detmer did not have a strong arm, so that is not the be all and end all.



Mars, did you attend? what I want to know is what types of throws did the guys make. Did they all throw underneath, or did any try downfield more than others. Just wondering who took chances, who took what the D gave, etc. But thanks for the info.
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Mars
Lawboy wrote:
Heaps has the strongest arm? Wow. And arm strength is not considered one of his strengths, either.

It's not? He was reported to have the strongest arm at the Elite 11 camp...
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blue42
snoscythe wrote:
USU, although not great when he was there, he didn't exactly make them too much better, did he.


USU in 2006 under Leon Jackson III = 21 points in 4.75 games (that's less than 4.5 points per game) with 3 shut outs.



USU in 2006 under Riley Nelson = 108 points in 7.25 games (14.8 ppg) with one shut out.





I would say Riley Nelson made them significantly better---not good----but significantly better. If you can put one player on the field that's going to make your team 10 points better on average, that kid has something working for him.



His passer rating of 115 was by no means great, but it was better than that of fellow freshman QB Matt Stafford at UGA that season, as well as better than Tom Brandstater at Fresno State, and Reggie Ball at GT.....all of whom seemed to turn out pretty okay despite having worse seasons with less to work with than Riley Nelson.


I agree with you Sno and this was the point I was trying to make, but let me take it one step futher, the 21 points scored with Jackson III at QB one of the scores was a pick 6 so he only accounted for 14 points as his time on the field, so makes it less than 3 ppg.



Riley made USU much better than they were and yes they are playing in the WAC but one person can not compete against 11 and expect to win no matter what type of players are on the field.



Was I impressed with Riley in his mop up duty last year? Just about as impressed as I have been with any back up who's responsibility is to hand off the ball with an occassional pass. I still don't know how someone can say a QB is a horrible passer when he only threw it 10 times and completed 7 of them. I guess those 3 incomplete passes must have been extremely crappy to say the other 7 were completed dispite the fact Riley was throwing them. Sorry I don't get it.
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Lawboy
No, Heaps strengths were leadership and IQ at that camp. Bray and Bolden had strongest arms, and Heaps was on the better end of arm strength, as I recall. I am sure he is between Max and Beck somewhere in that regard. Munns is supposed to have the strongest arm of the group. But I think is he a long shot to start, at best.



2009 Elite 11 QB Camp Awards:



Golden Gun Accuracy Award: Tyler Bray

Best Feet: Devin Gardner

Most Likely To Play Early: Jake Heaps

Most Upside: Tyler Bray

Best Leader By Example: Nick Montana

Best Leader Vocally: Jake Heaps

Highest Football IQ: Jake Heaps

Best In The Classroom: Devin Gardner

Best Arm: Robert Bolden

Most Accuracy: Chandler Whitmer

Best In Any System: Nick Montana

Quickest Release: Robert Bolden

Most Improved: Nick Montana

Most likely to win BCS Title: Jesse Scroggins



Overall MVP - Jake Heaps

MVP Second - Tyler Bray

MVP Third - Chandler Whitmer

MVP Fourth - Nick Montana

MVP Fifth - Robert Bolden
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Lawboy
blue42 wrote:
Lawboy wrote:
USU, although not great when he was there, he didn't exactly make them too much better, did he.


USU in 2006 under Leon Jackson III = 21 points in 4.75 games (that's less than 4.5 points per game) with 3 shut outs.



USU in 2006 under Riley Nelson = 108 points in 7.25 games (14.8 ppg) with one shut out.





I would say Riley Nelson made them significantly better---not good----but significantly better. If you can put one player on the field that's going to make your team 10 points better on average, that kid has something working for him.



His passer rating of 115 was by no means great, but it was better than that of fellow freshman QB Matt Stafford at UGA that season, as well as better than Tom Brandstater at Fresno State, and Reggie Ball at GT.....all of whom seemed to turn out pretty okay despite having worse seasons with less to work with than Riley Nelson.


I agree with you Sno and this was the point I was trying to make, but let me take it one step futher, the 21 points scored with Jackson III at QB one of the scores was a pick 6 so he only accounted for 14 points as his time on the field, so makes it less than 3 ppg.



Riley made USU much better than they were and yes they are playing in the WAC but one person can not compete against 11 and expect to win no matter what type of players are on the field.



Was I impressed with Riley in his mop up duty last year? Just about as impressed as I have been with any back up who's responsibility is to hand off the ball with an occassional pass. I still don't know how someone can say a QB is a horrible passer when he only threw it 10 times and completed 7 of them. I guess those 3 incomplete passes must have been extremely crappy to say the other 7 were completed dispite the fact Riley was throwing them. Sorry I don't get it.




Perhaps I am wrong about Riley. If he wins the job, I will cheer wildly for his success. And perhaps it is not fair to base my opinion off mop up duty and USU stats. I just know that the one thing I did not love was his pocket presence, and instinct to pull it down and run quickly. I know that is his strength, but it is also not the way the BYU offense is set up. But again, it worked for Steve Young just fine. And perhaps Anae could accommodate that that with his play calling. I know Doman could if he was calling the plays.



End of the day, just want to beat UW game one and keep rolling from there, regardless of who starts.
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snoscythe
Lawboy wrote:
End of the day, just want to beat UW game one and keep rolling from there, regardless of who starts.


That's where I stand too. I know I might come across as a Nelson or Lark fan sometimes, but all I want is for the best players to be on the field to help us win any given Saturday. I pick arguments in these quarterback debates not to prove/show Nelson or Lark is the man, but to bring back to earth the fans who are "Heap"ing expectations on a true freshman, forgetting that we have three other VERY good prospects.



I find the way BYU fans treat the players who have been in the system to be a little insulting frankly. We recruit them, land them, sing their praises, and then a year or two later we recruit, land, and sign another kid and suddenly the players we were excited for 12 months ago are second-hand citizens who can't cut it and are lucky to be enrolled at BYU.



Right now, Heaps is just one of four guys fighting for the starting QB spot. High school means nothing, USU means nothing, and stars and accolades means nothing. All that matters is Saturdays in the Fall.



And I will be here all summer to remind everyone of that. :crazy:
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Ddawg
snoscythe wrote:
End of the day, just want to beat UW game one and keep rolling from there, regardless of who starts.


That's where I stand too. I know I might come across as a Nelson or Lark fan sometimes, but all I want is for the best players to be on the field to help us win any given Saturday. I pick arguments in these quarterback debates not to prove/show Nelson or Lark is the man, but to bring back to earth the fans who are "Heap"ing expectations on a true freshman, forgetting that we have three other VERY good prospects.



I find the way BYU fans treat the players who have been in the system to be a little insulting frankly. We recruit them, land them, sing their praises, and then a year or two later we recruit, land, and sign another kid and suddenly the players we were excited for 12 months ago are second-hand citizens who can't cut it and are lucky to be enrolled at BYU.



Right now, Heaps is just one of four guys fighting for the starting QB spot. High school means nothing, USU means nothing, and stars and accolades means nothing. All that matters is Saturdays in the Fall.



And I will be here all summer to remind everyone of that. :crazy:


Ok - Sno finally got one right!! LOL!!!



(Here - here!! Well said. Ditto x 2)

:crazy:
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