Looking at this Match Up in Depth

I really, really like this match-up, for the following reasons:



1. They aren't that good. Period.



Florida is VERY overseeded, so I like the fact that we are really facing a 12/13 seed team (if seeded at all. I'm SHOCKED they got in.)



2. No Monsters Inside.



Their biggest dude is 6'10", and neither of them are beasts inside (even for their height - like a Keena Young or something). Obviously, we all have been fearing the bigs - and that will not be an issue.



3. No Superstar Presence.



Our defense may struggle at times against a single big time star player, but this Florida team is very balanced. Their highest scorer only puts up 13.6 a game. See we have some very good defenders, and a few who are only okay, but Florida doesn't have a few superstar guys who are going to attack our weakpoints. I think our good overall team defense is well suited for the spread out attack. Additionally, there aren't any match-up problems for us (like a guy too fast for our bigs to cover, but too big for our smalls to cover.)



4. Young/Inexperienced



They don't have a single senior on the team. Why is this ESPECIALLY significant? They haven't been to the Dance in two years, so their guys don't have ANY idea what it is like to play in the Dance.

The only glimpse of Florida that I've got this year was their game vs Auburn (I think it was auburn) They looked amazing. Kind of like UNLV always does against BYU.

declocoug wrote:
The only glimpse of Florida that I've got this year was their game vs Auburn (I think it was auburn) They looked amazing. Kind of like UNLV always does against BYU.

Well of course they looked amazing...it was Auburn.



Missouri State, Central Florida, Troy, and Sam Houston State all looked amazing when they played Auburn too :lol:

FurriousCougar wrote:

The only glimpse of Florida that I've got this year was their game vs Auburn (I think it was auburn) They looked amazing. Kind of like UNLV always does against BYU.

Well of course they looked amazing...it was Auburn.



Missouri State, Central Florida, Troy, and Sam Houston State all looked amazing when they played Auburn too :lol:

Call me crazy, but I know nothing about SEC basketball this year. :P

declocoug wrote:

declocoug wrote:
The only glimpse of Florida that I've got this year was their game vs Auburn (I think it was auburn) They looked amazing. Kind of like UNLV always does against BYU.

Well of course they looked amazing...it was Auburn.



Missouri State, Central Florida, Troy, and Sam Houston State all looked amazing when they played Auburn too :lol:

Call me crazy, but I know nothing about SEC basketball this year. :P

Actually, of all the major conferences the SEC is also the one I know the least about this year. Of every single dang team in the tournament this year though (except the SUPER no namers), I know the least about Florida. Figures. Especially seeing how my life is basically just spent watching college basketball all day, Florida would be the one team I've seen the least of.

FurriousCougar wrote:
I really, really like this match-up, for the following reasons:



1. They aren't that good. Period.



Florida is VERY overseeded, so I like the fact that we are really facing a 12/13 seed team (if seeded at all. I'm SHOCKED they got in.)



2. No Monsters Inside.



Their biggest dude is 6'10", and neither of them are beasts inside (even for their height - like a Keena Young or something). Obviously, we all have been fearing the bigs - and that will not be an issue.



3. No Superstar Presence.



Our defense may struggle at times against a single big time star player, but this Florida team is very balanced. Their highest scorer only puts up 13.6 a game. See we have some very good defenders, and a few who are only okay, but Florida doesn't have a few superstar guys who are going to attack our weakpoints. I think our good overall team defense is well suited for the spread out attack. Additionally, there aren't any match-up problems for us (like a guy too fast for our bigs to cover, but too big for our smalls to cover.)



4. Young/Inexperienced



They don't have a single senior on the team. Why is this ESPECIALLY significant? They haven't been to the Dance in two years, so their guys don't have ANY idea what it is like to play in the Dance.

All of these four Florida weaknesses are almost exactly all four Kansas State strengths

Big pllus for FLorida is their coach. It will be a dog fight.



Fortunately for BYU, Florida has lost 4 of their last 5 games entering the tournament.

cougarsunited wrote:

I really, really like this match-up, for the following reasons:



1. They aren't that good. Period.



Florida is VERY overseeded, so I like the fact that we are really facing a 12/13 seed team (if seeded at all. I'm SHOCKED they got in.)



2. No Monsters Inside.



Their biggest dude is 6'10", and neither of them are beasts inside (even for their height - like a Keena Young or something). Obviously, we all have been fearing the bigs - and that will not be an issue.



3. No Superstar Presence.



Our defense may struggle at times against a single big time star player, but this Florida team is very balanced. Their highest scorer only puts up 13.6 a game. See we have some very good defenders, and a few who are only okay, but Florida doesn't have a few superstar guys who are going to attack our weakpoints. I think our good overall team defense is well suited for the spread out attack. Additionally, there aren't any match-up problems for us (like a guy too fast for our bigs to cover, but too big for our smalls to cover.)



4. Young/Inexperienced



They don't have a single senior on the team. Why is this ESPECIALLY significant? They haven't been to the Dance in two years, so their guys don't have ANY idea what it is like to play in the Dance.

All of these four Florida weaknesses are almost exactly all four Kansas State strengths

No one's going to really care what happens against KSU anyway, as long as we win the first game.

I'll just say this about Florida, They are a good enough team to win a couple and surprise some people...They are not a great but a well coached deasent team. Do Not Take Them Lightly. Even in most of their losses they were in the game right to the very end. They have also been very streaky winning several then loosing several. Maybe it's a good thing they come into the tournament not doing so well in the SEC tournament. I guess their best asset is Coach Donavon. He can coach with the best of them. Having said that they are no Xavier or Texas A&M and are very beatable. We should win this one in fact this will be our best chance in years. As for the seating all I can say is win a couple and that will all be history.



Go Cougs!!!

L Hatton

Louisville, KY

I'll play devil's advocate here for a bit. Keep in mind I've never actually seen Florida play.



1 - Florida is well coached. You don't win back-to-back NCAA tourney's unless you know what you're doing



2 - They have 5 guys averaging over 10 pts a game. Essentially meaning anyone of those guys are capable of putting up points. Rather than just being able to focus on shutting down one or two players, we'll have to focus rather equally on all.



I think we can pull this off. Their forwards appear to be their best shooters, so we'll need solid defensive efforts from JT, Noah, Haws and Abuou. Looks like their leading scorer is freshman shooting guard Kenny Boynton. A healthy dose of Emery ought to keep Kenny in check. Their second leading scorer is their PG, Erving Walker. Jimmer ought to do okay against him, but I don't have much faith in Jimmer's defense. If Walker is getting around Jimmer, we'll probably have to go with a zone defense.

It occurred to me that the thread title refers to something that will play a major role in the outcome of the game: depth.



Wrubell addresses this summarily here.

"they're only eight deep, but only six players average 25+ minutes per game. Basically, it's a six-man team."



I noticed that too when looking at their season stats. I said earlier that it looks like they're really balanced between the starters for scoring (I assume they're the 5 starters), each averaging between 10.4 and 13.6 ppg. Honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing for us. Best thing against a straight-up offense is a straight-up defense. We haven't fared so well against a take-over-the-game type player, and they don't have one. Of note here, though: after their starters, their 6th man, the next highest scorer, averages under 5 ppg. If they don't start, they don't score.



Minutes per game tells a similar story. It goes 32.6, 32.6, 30.5, 28.4, 25.0, for their one through five. That's a LOT of minutes. Their 6th man (a 6'8, 230 kid) actually gets more floor time than their starting center, at 27.5 minutes, but as I mentioned before, is a minimal scoring threat. Sounds about like a Chris Miles, probably a defense guy who's not looked to for much offensive production. After their 6th man, they've only got one player over 10 minutes a game, and he's only getting 12.5 minutes. They really truly are a 6 man team.



You guys know what we have for depth, but to put numbers to your knowledge, we have 9 guys that we go to REGULARLY - over 13 minutes per game season average. The guys whose season averages are in the low-to-mid teens (Brandon/Charles/Mike) are actually seeing considerably more court time of late due to injuries/fouls etc. On the season, Lamont Morgan is our 10th at 9.5 minutes.



That's why it's so critical we get Tyler back on his game (I see him channeling some Rip Hamilton), and get a good-to-go stamp on Lamont's knee. The difference between running 10 deep vs. 6, and running 8 deep vs. 6 is HUGE. Florida is probably quicker than we are (remember? The Mormon kids are white, they can't possibly be athletic :roll: ), but even a really athletic bunch will be tired by the end, if they're playing a transition game on only 6 sets of legs.



They know this. Donovan's a great coach. He'll want a half-court game. They've got better bigs than we do. Further, they make a living on not fouling (5th nationally at 14.5 fouls per game). All the more reason, when we're on offense, to take it HARD to them. Force them to put our players on the line, and force them to go deeper than 6 in their rotation due to fouls. I normally disagree with Jimmer's penchant for throwing up off balance runners, scoops and floaters, but if early on in the game he drives just to get a few fouls on their bigs, that might make a HUGE difference late in the game. If they collapse on his drives, we need him to be aware of our shooters outside. I've perused a few Gator fan boards, and the consensus I get is that their fans don't consider themselves a very good perimeter defensive team. All the more reason to make them feel like they have to collapse to the key to keep from putting Jimmer and his LETHAL ft% on the line.



We need to show off how inferior "SEC Speed" is to Mormon Depth. ;)

Depth is overrated. Most overrated thing in sports. Name the last team to win any title because of depth. No, you win because you have the best talent that plays, and typically, the most dominant player on the court. Name the 6th or 7th man on the BYU team that made it to the Elite 8. I can name the starting 5, and that is it. Great players win tourney games, not depth. And for us to go deep, we need Jimmer to be GREAT and the supporting cast to be good. Trust me, our 7th or 8th man will not win it or lose it for us, but our starters will.



The season just got shorter, games more sporadic. Depth matters less even now. Easier recovery. Must win situations. I expect Coach Rose to shorten our bench now too. Short leash on JT would be a nice place to start. His 43% FG rate does not inspire me.

Lawboy wrote:
Depth is overrated. Most overrated thing in sports. Name the last team to win any title because of depth. No, you win because you have the best talent that plays, and typically, the most dominant player on the court. Name the 6th or 7th man on the BYU team that made it to the Elite 8. I can name the starting 5, and that is it. Great players win tourney games, not depth. And for us to go deep, we need Jimmer to be GREAT and the supporting cast to be good. Trust me, our 7th or 8th man will not win it or lose it for us, but our starters will.



The season just got shorter, games more sporadic. Depth matters less even now. Easier recovery. Must win situations. I expect Coach Rose to shorten our bench now too. Short leash on JT would be a nice place to start. His 43% FG rate does not inspire me.

Missouri didn't win the title last year with depth but they had a very good run.



That said I don't see depth playing that big of role unless we can force them into foul trouble.

No, you win because you make it to the hole more times than your opponent does. You're making generalizations and asking irrelevant questions to try and support them. My knowledge of who came of the bench on a BYU team 20 years ago has nothing to do with how many players Billy Donovan trusts to put on the court. Further, I'm not saying we'll beat K State THEN Pitt THEN Syracuse because of our depth (contrarily, actually. I think the only thing that would accomplish such a feat, as you intimated, would be Jimmer taking an extended and brutal leave of his senses).

I'm saying that when considering THIS game, playing a mediocre team from an overrated league (fewer teams in the tourney than our league) whose coach doesn't trust more than ONE guy on his own bench to put a foot on the court, it's a GREAT strategic move to try to RUN THE HELL OUT OF 'EM, so that 5 minutes to go, the six guys he DOES trust are gassed and can't make the shots they would in a slower game.



*edit* apologies, MWC got the same # bids as SEC, but did it without the BCS bias help

GolfDiveNCougs wrote:
No, you win because you make it to the hole more times than your opponent does. You're making generalizations and asking irrelevant questions to try and support them. My knowledge of who came of the bench on a BYU team 20 years ago has nothing to do with how many players Billy Donovan trusts to put on the court. Further, I'm not saying we'll beat K State THEN Pitt THEN Syracuse because of our depth (contrarily, actually. I think the only thing that would accomplish such a feat, as you intimated, would be Jimmer taking an extended and brutal leave of his senses).

I'm saying that when considering THIS game, playing a mediocre team from an overrated league (fewer teams in the tourney than our league) whose coach doesn't trust more than ONE guy on his own bench to put a foot on the court, it's a GREAT strategic move to try to RUN THE HELL OUT OF 'EM, so that 5 minutes to go, the six guys he DOES trust are gassed and can't make the shots they would in a slower game.

Run them to death and take it to the rack over and over again to draw fouls.



Agree. The idea isn't that since we have more depth we'll be able win, the idea is after Florida's top 5, there's no body else for them. So, do what you can to get the top 5 players off the court. If you can limit the minutes of a couple of their key players then it gives more opportunity to BYU. We can put Loyd, Abuou and JT in the game and not experience as significant a drop off in productivity and in some cases actually have an increase. We can run %100 of the time and still put up 80 points, Florida can't.

If Southern Alabama (17-15 SunBelt Conf) can beat them at their place in Gainesville, BYU can win in Oklahoma City.

We better. We have the worst winning percentage of all teams to play over 30 games in the NCAA tourney history. We also are near the top for NCAA appearances without a Final 4 visit. Fact is, for the great history our hoops program has had, we really only have had 1 good year in the NCAA tourney ever. Only 1x has BYU won more than 1 game in the tourney. Once. BYU Hoops struggles in March. Pretty pathetic tournament history, to be honest.

Erving Walker is 5'8". That's all I have to say. Jimmer will just post up on him or Emery will shoot over him.

Short_Change wrote:
Erving Walker is 5'8". That's all I have to say. Jimmer will just post up on him or Emery will shoot over him.

So tell me what you think about Brian Logan....

Short_Change wrote:
Erving Walker is 5'8". That's all I have to say. Jimmer will just post up on him or Emery will shoot over him.

Holy Cow! I do like that. Especially against a guard like Jimmer who thrives on using his size against other guards down low.



However, you missed the other good part about this - the defensive part.



See, Jimmer isn't the hottest defender out there, so this might help him to defend a bitter better anyway. Then, Emery can play their high scorer the whole time. If Jimmer gets Walker in foul trouble, then wow, things will REALLY look great, seeing how no one scores off their bench. If Emery does play Walker, good luck to him getting a shot up over him hahaha.