Fredette is Declaring for NBA Draft

but will not hire and agent and strongly consider returning for his senior season.

hawkwing wrote:
but will not hire and agent and strongly consider returning for his senior season.

haha, yeah, that is important info I suppose, I guess I shouldn't give people a complete heart attack with my topic title.

Basically he is doing what everyone knew he would do, check out his options.



Imho, If we do good in the NCAA tourney he leaves, if we do bad he stays to prove himself.

what part of the "team" doing well in the NCAAs = JImmer can play defense in the league?



I'm starting to believer that Jimmer is our version of Gerry McNamara... who went undrafted in spite of starting every game of his college career, had some prolific scoring games against some of the best teams in the country, and even won a national championship.



If he's going to make it to the NBA, he needs BYU more than BYU needs him; he has a chance to learn to play defense this summer and come back in better shape, more focused, less ill (not really something he could dodge) and show he can dominate both ends. Then he could be a legit NBA draft pick instead of a really good college player.



If he goes, we start Michael Lloyd and let Kyle Collinsworth back him up. Potentially not a huge dropoff but our depth takes a major hit.



My fear is that he's taking advice from his older brother, who seems to think he's the next Jay Z, Scott Boras, and Eminem rolled into one. Not sure if any of you remember, but when Jimmer came to BYU the only thing we knew about his older brother was that he had some mental health issues that he was in treatment for.

Maybe he's a great guy with the best intentions, but he's wayyy to close too the situation to help a kid make a level headed decision.



In my dealings with recruits and kids in the past, nothing has hurt their careers more than listening to the so called "street agents"

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_52_223/ai_58459079/

Myron Piggie ruined the careers of Jaron Rush, and Korleone Young before they even got started. Jimmers bro (and the entire city of Glenns Falls) oughta realize the actual jump required from going from really good college player to the most competitive league in the world.

(have we not learned from Trent Plaisted, Lee Cummard, even Travis Hansen, how hard it is to break into the NBA? Or from Hafa Araujo, how hard it is to stick...?")

Not saying that Jimmer is the next J.J. Redick, but Redick does not or at least didn't play good defense and he is making an impact in the NBA. Jimmer is a lot better shooter than Cummard or Hansen, IMO. Jimmer can hit the NBA three and many NBA teams look for a guy who can come off the bench and score from deep. I have no idea whether or not Jimmer will be that guy, but I think it's very evident that it's not a stretch. I don't love Bilas, but he seems to think Jimmer is a future NBA'er.

Short_Change wrote:
Not saying that Jimmer is the next J.J. Redick, but Redick does not or at least didn't play good defense and he is making an impact in the NBA. Jimmer is a lot better shooter than Cummard or Hansen, IMO. Jimmer can hit the NBA three and many NBA teams look for a guy who can come off the bench and score from deep. I have no idea whether or not Jimmer will be that guy, but I think it's very evident that it's not a stretch. I don't love Bilas, but he seems to think Jimmer is a future NBA'er.

Redick is 6'5", not a point guard, and had a chance to prove himself in the ACC when the ACC was the best hoops conference in the country.



If Jimmer were 6'5", I'd have to agree that he'd have a place in the NBA, but he's not and will be responsible for guarding the fastest players in the world... this is why he won't be drafted if he left this year.



He's literally our version of Gerry McNamara, who could shoot the lights out and went undrafted; and McNamara played against better competition than what Jimmer has been tested against.

craigoscarson wrote:

Not saying that Jimmer is the next J.J. Redick, but Redick does not or at least didn't play good defense and he is making an impact in the NBA. Jimmer is a lot better shooter than Cummard or Hansen, IMO. Jimmer can hit the NBA three and many NBA teams look for a guy who can come off the bench and score from deep. I have no idea whether or not Jimmer will be that guy, but I think it's very evident that it's not a stretch. I don't love Bilas, but he seems to think Jimmer is a future NBA'er.

Redick is 6'5", not a point guard, and had a chance to prove himself in the ACC when the ACC was the best hoops conference in the country.



If Jimmer were 6'5", I'd have to agree that he'd have a place in the NBA, but he's not and will be responsible for guarding the fastest players in the world... this is why he won't be drafted if he left this year.



He's literally our version of Gerry McNamara, who could shoot the lights out and went undrafted; and McNamara played against better competition than what Jimmer has been tested against.

Fredette is not our version of Gerry McNamara. McNamara got worse his last two seasons and his best 3pt % was during his soph year at 38.9%. Jimmer is hitting 47.8%. That's a big difference. McNamara's FG% went like this: 40%, 38, 37, and 35% his senior year. Not very good. Most of Jimmer's best 3 point shooting games came against the most athletic teams we've played. Fresno St., Arizona, SDSU both times, and at UNM. The kid knows how to get open and has a quick release. He's also a lot more athletic and strong than McNamara. Jimmer was an all-state WR if I remember correctly. I think he will benefit from another year of college, don't get me wrong, but I think he's an NBA player.



BTW, Redick is 6'4 FWIW.

Short_Change wrote:

Short_Change wrote:
Not saying that Jimmer is the next J.J. Redick, but Redick does not or at least didn't play good defense and he is making an impact in the NBA. Jimmer is a lot better shooter than Cummard or Hansen, IMO. Jimmer can hit the NBA three and many NBA teams look for a guy who can come off the bench and score from deep. I have no idea whether or not Jimmer will be that guy, but I think it's very evident that it's not a stretch. I don't love Bilas, but he seems to think Jimmer is a future NBA'er.

Redick is 6'5", not a point guard, and had a chance to prove himself in the ACC when the ACC was the best hoops conference in the country.



If Jimmer were 6'5", I'd have to agree that he'd have a place in the NBA, but he's not and will be responsible for guarding the fastest players in the world... this is why he won't be drafted if he left this year.



He's literally our version of Gerry McNamara, who could shoot the lights out and went undrafted; and McNamara played against better competition than what Jimmer has been tested against.

Fredette is not our version of Gerry McNamara. McNamara got worse his last two seasons and his best 3pt % was during his soph year at 38.9%. Jimmer is hitting 47.8%. That's a big difference. McNamara's FG% went like this: 40%, 38, 37, and 35% his senior year. Not very good. Most of Jimmer's best 3 point shooting games came against the most athletic teams we've played. Fresno St., Arizona, SDSU both times, and at UNM. The kid knows how to get open and has a quick release. He's also a lot more athletic and strong than McNamara. Jimmer was an all-state WR if I remember correctly. I think he will benefit from another year of college, don't get me wrong, but I think he's an NBA player.



BTW, Redick is 6'4 FWIW.

Redick does not have to guard points, and often when he plays, Orlando actually goes to the NBA type zone D.

6'4"-6'5" (he was listed as 6'5" at Duke) is quite different than a guy that is closer to 6'1" and has no other position but point in the NBA. Redick is also much more athletic than you give him credit for.



McNamara single handidly beat us in the NCAAs, has a national championship and played in the Big East; he had plenty of selling points that Jimmer doesn't. What they both have in common is that neither could play defense.



The biggest reason McNamara s production dipped his senior year was that the studs like Carmelo Anthony, Hakeem Warrick were gone. He faced double teams and struggled. Yet, he had a reputation for playing big in big games; and could shoot the lights out when he was on.





I've seen these arguments before in the past when people on these forums thought Plaisted was a lottery pick and that Cummard was a nobrainer 1st round pick.... (what else is new... we always think our players are better than they are in reality and particularly in comparing them to the most difficult professional sports leauge in the world to break into)



As long as Jimmer struggles to defend quick guards, he's not going to make it in the NBA. Why risk it when you have another year to cement your legacy as a college legend and parlay that into a coaching career someday? (just ask Steve Alford how being a 3 time college all america helped him in the pros..... but how it certainly helped him get a foothold in coaching)



If his decision to pursue the pros is a result of his rap mogul brother urging him to consider it, then he's making a huge mistake.



I guess we'll see what he does, but I hope he listens to the right people, because he's nothing more than a late 2nd rd pick at best right now; he's too much of a defensive liability; you just can't hide a point guard.

craigoscarson wrote:

If his decision to pursue the pros is a result of his rap mogul brother urging him to consider it, then he's making a huge mistake.



I guess we'll see what he does, but I hope he listens to the right people, because he's nothing more than a late 2nd rd pick at best right now; he's too much of a defensive liability; you just can't hide a point guard.

Please don't make it sound like his brother is the only one telling him to put his name in the draft. Don't most college juniors with hopes of the NBA put their name in the draft to test the waters? It's not like Jimmer's going out on a limb here, and it's not as if BYU/MWC people are the only ones saying he can make it in the NBA.

btw - I helped recruit the most athletic and best shooter in UMKC history. He averaged over 23 a game and finished fourth in NCAA Division I in scoring his junior year with 25.5 per game (including 54 points against NCAA tourney team Oral Roberts), could run a 4.4 40, was 6'1" and didnt' sniff a draft pick; the closest he got was a summer rookie camp with the Boston Celtics. (UMKC has produced 2 NBA players in the last 15 years also- the most famous being Tony Dumas)



Mike was every bit the shooter as Jimmer; and was much much faster. (Jimmer is stronger though)



http://www.unews.com/2.4802/watson-already-a-umkc-legend-1.663724



http://media.scout.com/Media/College_Mens_Basketball/17682_michaelwatson.JPG" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">





I have a hard time comparing Jimmer and Watson though because Mike's biggest problem was complete lack of exposure being in a low major conference - he could play very good defense and was almost always the quickest guy in the court. Jimmer is almost always the slowest guard on the court and plays very poor defense.



Regardless, Michael Watson didn't get drafted in spite of the buzz here in the midwest that he was better than any guard in the Big 12 at the time.





I love BYU and I love Jimmers offensive game; but nothing leads me to believe that he's an NBA player, simply because of his glaring weaknesses in size, speed and defense.



(the point I'm making here, and made in the past with Plaisted and Cummard, is that a really good college player doesn't = NBA player. It's the worlds most exclusive professional sports league; they employ less than 400 players from a world-wide pool and if you have glaring weaknesses like size, speed, or defense, they'll spit you out quicker than an old school Allen Iverson crossover.)

Craig,



Look at your home boy's shooting percentages, they're not that great especially for playing in a small conference. His 3 pt % was decent but Jimmer's is 10% higher. Ronnie Price played at UVU and has made it in the NBA so if you can play you can play. And no, I'm not comparing Ronnie's game with Jimmers. You're almost acting like I said Jimmer should leave early. If you think that then you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't see Jimmer ever starting in the NBA, but I do see him as a back-up that can score. I wasn't one of the people who thought Plaisted or Cummard would do anything. I knew they were overrated. I didn't think it would have mattered if Plaisted played his senior year either. I do think Jimmer would benefit from another year, but even if he doesn't come back I think he'll make it. Only time will tell though. He's had an amazing season when he hasn't been sick. How Jimmer plays in the MWC and NCAA tourneys will probably determine whether he comes back or not.

Short_Change wrote:
Craig,



Look at your home boy's shooting percentages, they're not that great especially for playing in a small conference. His 3 pt % was decent but Jimmer's is 10% higher. Ronnie Price played at UVU and has made it in the NBA so if you can play you can play. And no, I'm not comparing Ronnie's game with Jimmers. You're almost acting like I said Jimmer should leave early. If you think that then you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't see Jimmer ever starting in the NBA, but I do see him as a back-up that can score. I wasn't one of the people who thought Plaisted or Cummard would do anything. I knew they were overrated. I didn't think it would have mattered if Plaisted played his senior year either. I do think Jimmer would benefit from another year, but even if he doesn't come back I think he'll make it. Only time will tell though. He's had an amazing season when he hasn't been sick. How Jimmer plays in the MWC and NCAA tourneys will probably determine whether he comes back or not.

3 pt % makes no difference if you can't get your shot off in the league or if you're such a defensive liablity that they cant' find minutes for you.



I mentioned that Watson and Fredette are different players, which is why I said Jimmer's game is closer to McNamaras than Watson. (McNamara was also a shoot 1st point guard without pass 1st point guard skills)

Mike Watson would beat Jimmer from one end of the court to the other by 1/4 a length... the point is that both were very productive college players with all america type numbers that won't get a sniff from the NBA because of their weaknesses (Watson played overseas several years before deciding to pursue the ministry). We haven't even tackled the fact that Jimmer isnt' a pure point with average passing skills also.



I would be absolutely shocked if Jimmer stayed in the draft and went earlier than the late 2nd round.

Unless Jimmer develops some serious D, no way he makes it in the NBA. I highly doubt Jimmer could stay in front of the NBA's worst point guards.



The worst NBA point guards were at one time the best college points guards. Jimmer can't stay in front of average college point guards.

Since when is D so highly sought after in the NBA? I know that some kind of D is important but remember the NBA only has a 24 second clock and the time spent on D on your guy is only part of that time. Speed in a half court game isn't that big of a deal, what would make someone a good defensive player is being able to defend the pick and roll or fight through a couple of screens, beating you guy to the spot he wants by understanding angles, where the guy wants to go, it's not a foot race the full 94 feet of the court. I think Jimmer would be just fine in the NBA. By the way I seem to remember a few point guards that didn't exactly burn up and down the court, John Stockton, Mark Price, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncy Billups, which each of these players did okay in the NBA without having the "speed" you say Jimmer needs.

blue42 wrote:
Since when is D so highly sought after in the NBA? I know that some kind of D is important but remember the NBA only has a 24 second clock and the time spent on D on your guy is only part of that time. Speed in a half court game isn't that big of a deal, what would make someone a good defensive player is being able to defend the pick and roll or fight through a couple of screens, beating you guy to the spot he wants by understanding angles, where the guy wants to go, it's not a foot race the full 94 feet of the court. I think Jimmer would be just fine in the NBA. By the way I seem to remember a few point guards that didn't exactly burn up and down the court, John Stockton, Mark Price, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncy Billups, which each of these players did okay in the NBA without having the "speed" you say Jimmer needs.

You don't necessarily need speed to be a good defender. Stockton and Kidd are both pretty good defenders and as you pointed out neither had much speed. It is more about angles, etc. as you point out. Staying in front of your man isn't completely contingent on whether you're "faster" than him. It helps and faster players can use their athleticism to make up for sloppy D.



As for D not being necessary in the NBA, it is, especially for your average NBA rookie. You can't have your PG falling for every cross over given to him.



Jimmer needs to stay on his toes more when he plays D and work on moving laterally. He often falls back on his heels. He gets duped by cross overs way to easily and if he gets beat he often just lets his man go by. Some of that may be because he's tired and "resting" for when he's on offense. Regardless of the reason, the effect is the same.

I am with Craig. I don't see any scenarios where Jimmer should get drafted this year.

Okay everyone. Deep breath. This really isn't an issue. Jimmer puts his name out there, doesn't hire an agent, and when he finds out he isn't a high draft pick he comes back. Just like JT last year.



The hand wringing here is pretty funny.

I say there is a 90% chance he is back next year. The draft prospectus will have him coming back. He needs to work on his interior distribution. Perhaps the bigs BYU has next year will help him with that more than the ones he has had the last 2 seasons.

By declaring for the draft, Jimmer can potentially be invited to some summer camps held by teams, and scouts. This will allow him to be evaluated and given guidance on where teams and scouts feel he is deficient.