Archived Topic

time to talk about conf tourney seeding

by craigoscarson · 2/25/2010

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craigoscarson
so obviously the idea is to stay out of unlvs side of the bracket (since it's played in their living room) and obviously we're no worse than the 2 seed...



what are the odds that if we get the 2 that unlv ends up the 4 and we miss them til a potential final?



New Mexico #12 12-2 - 26-3

Brigham Young #11 11-2 ½ 26-3



San Diego State 9-5 3 20-8

UNLV 8-5 3½ 20-7



Colorado State 6-7 5½ 15-12

Utah 6-7 5½ 13-14



TCU 4-8 7 12-15

Wyoming 2-11 9½ 9-18
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Florwood
With a one seed we play them in the second game, which I like. The last couple of times we lost to them in the MWC finals, the mantra was 'we were tired'. As if we played more games than they had...so I say, meet them before the finals. And get them out of our heads by beating them.
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bigbluepuma
I don't see us losing to them , no matter when we play them. The boys won't be playing not to lose, like they were last time. They will have something to prove (see football VS UCLA last year), and they will come out with FIRE in their eyes. I think we win out, then win a few in the big dance. :) :)



You heard it here third. 8)
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SpiffCoug
We're finishing as the #1 seed. UNLV will be the 3 seed since they beat us once. I think I'd rather play UNLV on Friday than Saturday though. Fresher legs.
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Wickchad
I think if we want a 3 seed in the tourney then we need to beat both UNLV and New Mexico in the conference tournament. So I guess that means we need to be 1 and UNLV needs to be 4. We would get a lot more respect for beating UNLV than San Diego State. Thats just my take.
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bigbluepuma
Wickchad84087 wrote:
I think if we want a 3 seed in the tourney then we need to beat both UNLV and New Mexico in the conference tournament. So I guess that means we need to be 1 and UNLV needs to be 4. We would get a lot more respect for beating UNLV than San Diego State. Thats just my take.


History says that we need to win the tourney to get a fair seed. How many years have we had a better season than UNLV and been predicted to have a very good seed, then lose to them, and get a lousy seed, while UNLV gets a good seed. Luckily , we are going to run the table into the dance. :) :) 8) 8)
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BroncoBot
Wickchad84087 wrote:
I think if we want a 3 seed in the tourney then we need to beat both UNLV and New Mexico in the conference tournament. So I guess that means we need to be 1 and UNLV needs to be 4. We would get a lot more respect for beating UNLV than San Diego State. Thats just my take.

This sounds like a good way of wearing a team out fast at the wrong time of year! :bug: I'll take a tourney championship any way BYU can get it. If we could somehow get Wyoming, AFA, and TCU, that would be fine with me. If BYU wins out and can snag a good seed after becoming season champ, I don't really care about the MWC tourney to be honest. Too bad the selection committee puts a lot of weight into winning the conference tourney for a team like BYU.
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GolfDiveNCougs
Sorry guys, we won't be seeing UNLV as a 4 seed. They're as close to a guaranteed 3-seed as you can be. Here's why. They are currently tied with SDSU at 9-5. Both of those teams are ending with VERY winnable games. Both play at Air Force, UNLV hosts Wyoming, and SDSU hosts Colorado State. Barring a collosal collapse, both will end at 11-5. As they're 1-1 against each other, the tiebreaker goes to their record against the 1 seed. If that's BYU, UNLV owns the tiebreaker, as SDSU went o-fer against BYU. If the 1 seed is UNM, they'd be even on the 1st tiebreaker, as they were both 1-1 against UNM. The next tiebreaker would be the 2 seed, which is BYU, so they'll get the same result as above.



Now, obviously, if UNLV loses the gimmee either at Air Force or vs. Wyoming, they'd drop below SDSU for the 4-seed, but stay comfortably ahead of either Utah or CSU.



As UNM only has 2 games left, they literally couldn't fall to the same record as Vegas and San Diego.

So there are only 2 other OBSCURE possibilities that would wrench either of those teams out of the 3- and 4- seeds.

A- BYU, with 3 games left, technically could, by losing all 3. RIIIIIIGHT. For those interested, that would put BYU at the 4-seed (as they'd have lost to UNM 2x, where LV and SDS split with NM).

B- Either Vegas or SDSU loses BOTH gimmees, and Utah or CSU wins out. Yeah. Not gonna happen either.





So the way I see it, this is shaping up to be the worst of all scenarios seeding-wise for us. Here's why I think so:



If we beat UNM on Saturday and TCU next Saturday (gimmee), we're the #1 seed regardless whether we beat Utah or not. That's because even though a Utah loss would tie us with UNM at 13-3, we'd hold the tiebreaker, as we beat SDSU twice, and UNM didn't.

Obviously, if NM beats us on Saturday, we're a guaranteed 2-seed. But none of us even want to think about a loss Saturday.



So ASSUMING we win on Saturday, that pretty much cements the 1-4 seeds in place.

Then, again ASSUMING the 1-4 advance, BYU plays SDSU, and New Mexico plays UNLV. Ugh. I also would rather play UNM or UNLV in the 2nd round than the Championship, but for a much different reason than I've read yet.

It's VERY hard to beat a team 3 times in a season. Look at last year. We couldn't do it against San Diego State. Shoot, we almost lost against freaking AIR FORCE!!! I would consider a 2nd round matchup against San Diego State MUCH more perilous than EITHER New Mexico or UNLV, even in Vegas' livingroom. This is a team that can beat UNLV in their own invitational. I really believe that.



Unfortunately, not only is SDSU the most dangerous of the 3 imho (in that particular situation, mind, not necessarily overall), but we get the least credit for beating them of the three. We'd obviously root for UNM to beat UNLV in the other semi-, but I could see UNLV coming out STRONG against the Lobos, to atone for their home loss against them earlier in the season. A Rebel win would not only make the championship game more perilous (I think we can all agree that UNM would actually be a more manageable title game that UNLV), but again, we'd get less credit for it.



Bottom line, even IF we beat UNM Saturday, if we don't play UNM on a neutral floor AFTER the regular season, whether or not we place better than them in the tourney, I'm just betting we'll see the selection committee screw BYU out of the spot in the West and give it to UNM. They'll then give some LAMO excuses about how much more impressive UNM's win over loser Cal was than BYU's absolute DRUBBING of equal loser Arizona, and 5 wins over ranked teams. Riiiiiight. They'll neglet to mention, though, that only two of those are currently ranked, that one of those teams (BYU) got the last laugh, and the other (aTm) was a win in the Pit, where BYU's 2nd top-25 win was over a similarly-ranked opponent (UTEP), happened ON THE ROAD, and without our star player, you know, the one who dropped an L-bill on Arizona AT Arizona a week earlier. Have I missed anything?

:sulk:



So yeah, what I'm seeing is even IF we win out, the tourney is toughest-road, least-credit-for-it.
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GolfDiveNCougs
Oh, yeah, and that's all neglecting to mention that BYU will have only TWO home games in the entire last month of conference play, including the tournament (and those against the other top 2 teams in the league). BYU was dished a 3-home games 5-road games 2nd half of the season, and was given their bye during the 1st week, which means as many as 8 out of 11 on the road to end the season.



Contrast that with New Mexico, who ends the regular season with a home game against TCU and then a BYE on Saturday before the tourney.



Even more ridiculous, UNLV getting 5 home games out of their last 8 in the regular season, including the midweek-bye and a home game against Wyoming the Saturday before the tourney. That's ONE away game in their entire last MONTH of the before the NCAA's, and that 1 away game was against conference Powerhouse Air Force.



I'm all for fairness, but this year's scheduling makes me think that the MWC wanted to make it more fair for the teams that would likely need a boost come Conference Tourney time to be competative with BYU.

:gross:
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craigoscarson
GolfDiveNCougs wrote:
Sorry guys, we won't be seeing UNLV as a 4 seed. They're as close to a guaranteed 3-seed as you can be. Here's why. They are currently tied with SDSU at 9-5. Both of those teams are ending with VERY winnable games. Both play at Air Force, UNLV hosts Wyoming, and SDSU hosts Colorado State. Barring a collosal collapse, both will end at 11-5. As they're 1-1 against each other, the tiebreaker goes to their record against the 1 seed. If that's BYU, UNLV owns the tiebreaker, as SDSU went o-fer against BYU. If the 1 seed is UNM, they'd be even on the 1st tiebreaker, as they were both 1-1 against UNM. The next tiebreaker would be the 2 seed, which is BYU, so they'll get the same result as above.



Now, obviously, if UNLV loses the gimmee either at Air Force or vs. Wyoming, they'd drop below SDSU for the 4-seed, but stay comfortably ahead of either Utah or CSU.



As UNM only has 2 games left, they literally couldn't fall to the same record as Vegas and San Diego.

So there are only 2 other OBSCURE possibilities that would wrench either of those teams out of the 3- and 4- seeds.

A- BYU, with 3 games left, technically could, by losing all 3. RIIIIIIGHT. For those interested, that would put BYU at the 4-seed (as they'd have lost to UNM 2x, where LV and SDS split with NM).

B- Either Vegas or SDSU loses BOTH gimmees, and Utah or CSU wins out. Yeah. Not gonna happen either.





So the way I see it, this is shaping up to be the worst of all scenarios seeding-wise for us. Here's why I think so:



If we beat UNM on Saturday and TCU next Saturday (gimmee), we're the #1 seed regardless whether we beat Utah or not. That's because even though a Utah loss would tie us with UNM at 13-3, we'd hold the tiebreaker, as we beat SDSU twice, and UNM didn't.

Obviously, if NM beats us on Saturday, we're a guaranteed 2-seed. But none of us even want to think about a loss Saturday.



So ASSUMING we win on Saturday, that pretty much cements the 1-4 seeds in place.

Then, again ASSUMING the 1-4 advance, BYU plays SDSU, and New Mexico plays UNLV. Ugh. I also would rather play UNM or UNLV in the 2nd round than the Championship, but for a much different reason than I've read yet.

It's VERY hard to beat a team 3 times in a season. Look at last year. We couldn't do it against San Diego State. Shoot, we almost lost against freaking AIR FORCE!!! I would consider a 2nd round matchup against San Diego State MUCH more perilous than EITHER New Mexico or UNLV, even in Vegas' livingroom. This is a team that can beat UNLV in their own invitational. I really believe that.



Unfortunately, not only is SDSU the most dangerous of the 3 imho (in that particular situation, mind, not necessarily overall), but we get the least credit for beating them of the three. We'd obviously root for UNM to beat UNLV in the other semi-, but I could see UNLV coming out STRONG against the Lobos, to atone for their home loss against them earlier in the season. A Rebel win would not only make the championship game more perilous (I think we can all agree that UNM would actually be a more manageable title game that UNLV), but again, we'd get less credit for it.



Bottom line, even IF we beat UNM Saturday, if we don't play UNM on a neutral floor AFTER the regular season, whether or not we place better than them in the tourney, I'm just betting we'll see the selection committee screw BYU out of the spot in the West and give it to UNM. They'll then give some LAMO excuses about how much more impressive UNM's win over loser Cal was than BYU's absolute DRUBBING of equal loser Arizona, and 5 wins over ranked teams. Riiiiiight. They'll neglet to mention, though, that only two of those are currently ranked, that one of those teams (BYU) got the last laugh, and the other (aTm) was a win in the Pit, where BYU's 2nd top-25 win was over a similarly-ranked opponent (UTEP), happened ON THE ROAD, and without our star player, you know, the one who dropped an L-bill on Arizona AT Arizona a week earlier. Have I missed anything?

:sulk:



So yeah, what I'm seeing is even IF we win out, the tourney is toughest-road, least-credit-for-it.


awesome post



This is exactly what I was looking for.



The reason though that I don't fear SDSU, is that until they can prove that they can solve the zone d; I don't think they can beat us. Stay close? sure, win... no



I'm not sure that I'm excited about unm/unlv in the finals, but I think our most likely scenario (if we beat unm on sat) gives us the best chance at a high seed. win the gimmee, beat sdsu, and then play unm/unlv we really could play our way into an unprecedented 2 seed (obviously things out of our control would have to happen)



again, I dont' fear sdsu simply because they don't have shooters, their fans won't travel (ours will in droves) and i personally think that familiarity favors the more cerebral team... on the other side, SDSU could be fighting for their tournament lives and that truly can be dangerous



so what might be the most fearful situation, might also bring us the biggest reward, provided we survive that gauntlet.



I personally want to win 1 game in the ncaa tourney more than anything, and we're headed for no worse than a 4 seed right now; anything more is gravy and it's actually within reach.
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bigbluepuma
Great analysis. I too think that SDSU is the most parilous opponent, for that very reason. If, however they did have a great game against us, that might give Jimmer a reason to go off. twenty six is not going off for Jimmer. It's just a good game. I think they/he want a different oucome this year bad enough to fight like we haven't seen to win at the tourney. He could hang a ton on a team that stands in the way.



Yeah, you heard it fourth here. :evil: 8) 8) :P
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Mars
Wickchad84087 wrote:
I think if we want a 3 seed in the tourney then we need to beat both UNLV and New Mexico in the conference tournament. So I guess that means we need to be 1 and UNLV needs to be 4. We would get a lot more respect for beating UNLV than San Diego State. Thats just my take.

You know what I like about playing SDSU in the 2nd round of the MWC Tourny, instead of UNLV?

1- We can beat the Aztecs in Las Vegas.

2- SDSU has the better RPI of the two.
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