The case for Heaps

I'm new here so I'm not sure how many threads there are regarding this topic...probably at least 10 but I'm not going to rummage through the old posts. Here is my take:



Starting Riley could be a big mistake for BYU. If Riley is better prepared than Heaps at the start of the season, the benefit of starting him over Heaps could possibly be one game. Even if you were to start the weakest of all of our QBs lets say that is Munns or Lark, we would most likely still go 7-5 next year, right? I would guess that the difference between a lesser prepared Lark/Munns verses a better prepared Nelson/Heaps is maybe 1-2 games. We go to a bowl game either way. So if Nelson is better you still don't start him because you only benefit one game, if that.



In addition, even if Heaps is not as prepared as Riley at the start of the season, I would bet that Heaps is going to progress very quickly. I think it will be a similar scenario to what you saw at Utah last year. The true freshman (Winn) wasn't ready at the start of the season but as the season went on, it was clear to the Ute Coaches that Jordan Winn was the real deal and future and they didn't want to waste anymore time on Cain. BYU shouldn't waste time on Riley Nelson for the same reason. Utah would have been much better off last year and this coming year starting Winn from the beginning. Sure they may have dropped another game early on but at the same time, they may have knocked BYU off at home had Jordan Winn had a bit more experience and reps (especially on the deep ball).



I would rather have a year like USC and Utah did last year and then emerge with a guaranteed 3 years left for Heaps, than red shirt Heaps and risk losing him Ben Olsen style.



In addition, not starting Heaps will definitely be a detrimental to BYU’s ability to recruit future top 100 recruits. If you’re going to ride the pine wood pony, why not ride it in style at Texas, USC, Cal, or Miami? A top 100 recruit with eighty-nine offers from BCS schools does not come to BYU so they can sit the bench and not be seen on TV by their mom and dad and spend their winters in the bitter cold. They come to BYU to play now.



Also wanted to know your thoughts on this idea. I've heard people say that they believe they knew Riley would not start when Harvey Unga decided to stay. Their theory is that Harvey would not be staying if Riley were QB because Harvey needs the assurance that his draft stock will not drop by staying and that means he needs equal or more carries and wants to be in the same offensive system he has been in the last few years. They say he most likely was given some assurances that the offensive scheme will not be changing at all. Anae said himself that he will not be changing the offensive scheme for next year. If Riley were to start, you could not maintain the same scheme we’ve had since 2005. It would have to morph and it would take too much time and effort and could very well cost us wins this year.



Last but not least, I think if you sit Heaps on the bench there are going to be some key recruits who Heaps has recruited/mentored, who are going to be pretty upset and I don't think you can guarantee they will stay if Riley Nelson is the quarterback the next two years.



It would be a perfect world if Jake Heaps were to red shirt, go on a mission and then give us 4 years of National Championship hopes but it is much too big of a risk for our program. We have very little to gain by starting Nelson even if Nelson is the better QB at the start of the season.



Alright I’m ready for my beating! Let me know your thoughts…. :)

Ok. First off, I will agree that if its close, you go with the younger guy. Having said that, we need to come off of Heaps being all-world.



While Heaps was the best QB in this class, it was the weakest QB class in recent memory. He wasn't even a 5-star recruit on 2 of the 3 major recruiting sites (yes, there is the non-AQ bias, but still, the ratings are what they are).



Also, many of the guys that Heaps "recruited" will be going on missions either right away or after a year. I doubt their opinion of BYU will change all that much if Heaps doesn't start from game 1.



If Heaps starts, its because he is the best option to win games, not because he needs experience. Lark has 2 years in the program already. Nelson has 1 year now. Munns (who will probably transfer) has a full year too.



If Nelson, Lark or anyone can give us one more win, that's who needs to play. As a fan, that means that I won't have that one weekend that isn't completely ruined because of that loss.



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BYU should start the best QB. Period. Now, as to having three years for Heaps you can also get that by having him red shirt.



Personally, I'm not sure BYU has a wrong decision to make. I think BYU can and willsucceed with either QB.



But, you've clearly made up your mind. So good luck with that.



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Go with the guy who is better. If it's not Heaps, he can grow and develop on the sidelines like every other quarterback in BYU history. That's seems to work out well for us.



If Heaps takes offense to that and transfers, good riddance. Someone who takes offense to that isn't someone we need running the offense down the road. If other players get upset, they need to grow a pair and become team players.



Learning on the field as a freshman is overrated. If it was such a great thing, why do we have the phrase "sophomore slump?" Additionally, you are assuming that Heaps would somehow progress and be the better quarterback the next year. If he gets beaten out for the job, the guy who beat him is going to be growing and learning as well. He will likely be beaten out the next year to.



In short, you make the kid earn his spot, just like every other Tom, Dick and Harry on the team. Giving a starting position to the lesser performer with more stars sets as disturbing precedent for the program. A team benefits when everyone knows that the best performers play. When you start giving away positions based on promise, you take away a lot of the incentive for players to dedicate themselves to improvement. It's stupid to put a better player on the bench simply because a kid who hasn't thrown a single NCAA snap comes in with more stars and praise. There's no guarantee Heaps will even be an average quarterback, so why would a coach risk his credibility? At that point, Heaps would have shown less in camp than the other guy....who's to say he will ever show more?



I think its a stupid idea (in case you didn't already get the drift) to name Heaps or any other quarterback the starter unless they earn it in camp. Yeah, Heaps might win more games down the road, but then again, he might be the next Paul Shoemaker too. Make him earn it. Showing up to practices on time would be a good start.

stuckinbig10country wrote:
Also, many of the guys that Heaps "recruited" will be going on missions either right away or after a year. I doubt their opinion of BYU will change all that much if Heaps doesn't start from game 1.[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Which of Heaps "recruits" will be going on a mission???

Cougy_Monster wrote:
It was really hard to watch Detmer keep the bench nice and toasty while Covey started (even though Covey wasn't bad....it was so obvious that Detmer had a huuuge upside even though he was young and inexperienced).

Yeah, I hate 9-4 seasons too. I was glad when sophomore Detmer came and led the team the next year to 10-3. :roll:



Detmer may have had huuuge upside, or even huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge upside, but Covey beat him out for the job. If Covey beat him out (i.e. was performing better) do you really thing Freshman Detmer, who was, despite the size of his upside, not as good as Junior Covey coming out of camp was going to win any more games? You can't sacrifice one season for the next, especially when you are gambling on an unproven entity, who at this point can't even win a starting spot, much less a game.

snoscythe wrote:
Go with the guy who is better. If it's not Heaps, he can grow and develop on the sidelines like every other quarterback in BYU history. That's seems to work out well for us.

It also seems to work out well for the QB. The sidline is usually a much better place to develop than the field. Sometimes the reason a promising QB never reaches his potential, is because he doesn't have that opportunity to develop before getting into the fire. I also don't think that Heaps and all the recruits and future recruits are going to bail just because the coaches don't proclaim him NPOY before the first game.

(that was TIC, QBU)

I like the points that have been made thus far. There are a number of factors the coaching staff will have to consider. One I haven't heard mentioned in this thread is how the rest of the team might influence the decision. I'd like to hear some of the knowledgeable posters talk about the pros and cons of throwing a true freshman to the wolves in light of the strength of the supporting cast. You know, kind of like some guy who used to play for some school north of BYU who was started as as rookie by the 49ers. That didn't turn out so well.

As far as the Heaps recruits that will go on a mission there is Stout and Fua to name two. Plus if he's being credited with helping to recruit most of the class, I think 20 of the 27 signees have mission plans, and 1 or 2 others may decide to go.



If its about people wanting to play with Heaps, those 20 would probably hope that he redshirts so they can play with him longer.



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Cougy_Monster wrote:
It was really hard to watch Detmer keep the bench nice and toasty while Covey started (even though Covey wasn't bad....it was so obvious that Detmer had a huuuge upside even though he was young and inexperienced).



I just don't want that to happen again with Riley and Heaps. I'm ok with Riley starting. I think he'll be good. But at game 3 or 4 if it becomes clear that Heaps can carry the team to places Riley can't....then I hope Bronco, Doman, Anae and company have the courage to replace the starter midseason. Our coaches haven't had to deal with that scenario yet. I hope they're up for it.

You are aware that Detmer red-shirted, correct? He was not a true freshman in 1988.

How many days until Spring practice starts? Can not wait to hear reports about who looks best, so we finally have something to really chat about.

If Heaps redshirts, there's no doubt that the Heaps family will stand behind BYU. They've already put all their eggs in that basket and understand the value of the redshirt.



I would be flabbergasted if they considered transferring for even a second. This isn't a Gary Crowton team...

You can add me to the "may the best man win" camp.

Lawboy wrote:
How many days until Spring practice starts? Can not wait to hear reports about who looks best, so we finally have something to really chat about.

BYU gets 20 or 21 practices. I believe the first one is 15 March.

snoscythe wrote:

It was really hard to watch Detmer keep the bench nice and toasty while Covey started (even though Covey wasn't bad....it was so obvious that Detmer had a huuuge upside even though he was young and inexperienced).

Yeah, I hate 9-4 seasons too. I was glad when sophomore Detmer came and led the team the next year to 10-3. :roll:



Detmer may have had huuuge upside, or even huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge upside, but Covey beat him out for the job. If Covey beat him out (i.e. was performing better) do you really thing Freshman Detmer, who was, despite the size of his upside, not as good as Junior Covey coming out of camp was going to win any more games? You can't sacrifice one season for the next, especially when you are gambling on an unproven entity, who at this point can't even win a starting spot, much less a game.

Though I'm glad that the coaching staff had realized what RS frosh Detmer had developed into by the second half of the bowl game that year.

Mingjai wrote:

Cougy_Monster wrote:
It was really hard to watch Detmer keep the bench nice and toasty while Covey started (even though Covey wasn't bad....it was so obvious that Detmer had a huuuge upside even though he was young and inexperienced).

Yeah, I hate 9-4 seasons too. I was glad when sophomore Detmer came and led the team the next year to 10-3. :roll:



Detmer may have had huuuge upside, or even huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge upside, but Covey beat him out for the job. If Covey beat him out (i.e. was performing better) do you really thing Freshman Detmer, who was, despite the size of his upside, not as good as Junior Covey coming out of camp was going to win any more games? You can't sacrifice one season for the next, especially when you are gambling on an unproven entity, who at this point can't even win a starting spot, much less a game.

Though I'm glad that the coaching staff had realized what RS frosh Detmer had developed into by the second half of the bowl game that year.

Covey also had started at least a little bit as a soph (Detmer's true freshman year). During the next year they split a lot of time. Detmer had only one start his rs freshman year (against UNM, iirc), but I think he played in all the games.



I wouldn't be opposed to doing the same thing this year, if it gives BYU a chance to win more games.



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Two guys who may transfer if Heaps is not the QB are Van Noy and Apo. I don't think either are LDS and I believe Heaps has been instrumental in getting Apo to BYU and in our retention of Van Noy.



If Heaps goes on a mission we do stand a chance of losing him. That's a fact. If we start him this year I don't think he goes on a mission, meaning we don't endure the possible risk of losing him.



I don't think you can compare Alex Smith's situation to BYU. Alex Smith IS a great Quarterback but:

1. he is a victim of the spread offense which has been known to deplete the NFL of good quarterbacks.

2. He has never had good WRs

3. He has had like 40 offensive coordinators

4. A pro offense is like calculus, a college offense is like Pre-Algebra



Like I said before Matt Barkley will be a stud next year and I hate to say it but Jordan Winn is going to be a thorn in our A$$ for a very long time thanks to Whittingham's vision of the future. Sitting QBs on the bench is a proven technique in the NFL but in college a 4 year starter is going to make a difference. Think about it, Max Hall could have used another year in our offense if you ask me. Each of us have endured Max throwing to the right 90% of the time and keying in on one/two recievers for entire seasons.... Another issue that was brought up by one of you is-will Anae and Bronco have the courage to bench the starter whomever that may be if he is underperforming mid-season? If there is anything we know about Bronco it is that he prefers consistency, he doesn't switch things up or take many chances at all. Whoever he names starter out of spring ball will be the starter for the year.

Both Van Noy and Apo are LDS. Van Noy has had some issues and has never had mission plans. Apo may still serve a mission, though unlikely.



Van Noy has demonstrated his committment to BYU more than almost anyone else. If he was going to go anywhere else, he would have last year, instead of sitting out a year. Coach gave him a way out after his DUI last year, and Van Noy decided to keep his committment and sit out.



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I don't believe Heaps is considering a mission. He's a good kid, but he aspires to be a great college QB, and to make millions as a pro QB. I believe he will battle this spring to be the starter, and if he doesn't make it, he will battle in August to be the starter, and if he doesn't make it, he will battle in September and October to be the starter. One way or another, I think, before the season's over, he will be the starter.