“It’s not a belief. It’s discrimination.”

W O W!! Now if that isn't someone trying to tell you the black is white.



https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/education/college/byu/scientific-groups-remove-job-posts-over-lgbtq-policy-at-byu/article_634a3db1-2ca3-58d5-9d0c-ddd0ed427e30.html



How can an intelligent individual consciously say such a thing? Having a belief that doesn't agree with yours doesn't make mine discriminatory. The same counter argument could be made to this "enlightened" individual that they are being discriminatory by denying my right to have a belief.



This is just the writing on the wall that we'll find it difficult to join any conference whatsoever and that soon we're going to be struggling mightily to even find teams that their fans will not fight their institution to let them play us.

Dark times are coming. I greatly fear BYU’s accreditation’s will one day be challenged and revoked because of this, and if that happens it could be the death knell to the university.

At Church on Sunday, member of stake presidency quoted from this article



https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/13/a-closer-look-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/



"Nones" now represent 23% of the US population. 35% of the Millenials are Nones. I'm not saying something that we've not all worried about all of our lives, but the power of our position, or anyone of similar beliefs, is eroding quite swiftly. I hope I'll be gone before this becomes a reality, but the future of BYU sports doesn't look very rosy, simply based on the intolerance of many of those of no belief.

This really should be in the Lounge and not the Football area.



That said it probably is only a matter of time before our church (and other churches) are are no longer considered non-profits. I mean one of the Democratic candidates already said they wanted to do this.



And yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if BYU and other Christian schools are forced to shut down. A day will come when you will only be able to get an education from a far-left government run institution. You will be required to take Gender 101 and you will no longer be able to take economics courses because the socialist communist goverment doesn't want you to learn about free markets.

I don't know guys.....if the church has survived abolition of polygamy and the priesthood to all worthy male members, it will survive this. I sometimes wonder why the honor code is more strict than church standards when it comes to attending and being involved. Nobody is turned away from the temple if they have a recommend. Nobody is turned away from a church meeting. But people who are welcome in Sacrament Meeting can be kicked out of BYU (I know first hand from someone close to me--she was welcomed and encouraged to attend church and take part in repentance but was kicked out of BYU-I as unworthy to attend after getting turned in twice by others for getting "too physical"--not sex--with a visiting non-student boyfriend). The ecclesiastical endorsement part of BYU could use reform. There was a day where people swore caffeinated beverages wouldn't every be sold on campus. lol

All of this is all a little over the top over reaction imo. If BYU can have a rule and decline people from entering into the school then an organization can say they don't agree with it and turn BYU away. No harm no foul I'm sure BYU took their money for the add back and moved on. And as long as BYU is a private school and doesn't get any state or federal funding then what and how they teach inside the school is their own right and no court would go against it. It's in the Constitution.

I've been very vocal on my opinion of the honor code before. And I do fear that the honor code as it is today not only has already hurt BYU in joining a P5 conference but in the future will continue to hurt it in getting an invite. You can have your rules but that doesn't mean people have to like or accept those rules. And when it's those people who control your chances of getting into a P5 confrence you either accept it or make changes. They don't have to change its their conference.

Fido wrote:

I don't know guys.....if the church has survived abolition of polygamy and the priesthood to all worthy male members, it will survive this. I sometimes wonder why the honor code is more strict than church standards when it comes to attending and being involved. Nobody is turned away from the temple if they have a recommend. Nobody is turned away from a church meeting. But people who are welcome in Sacrament Meeting can be kicked out of BYU (I know first hand from someone close to me--she was welcomed and encouraged to attend church and take part in repentance but was kicked out of BYU-I as unworthy to attend after getting turned in twice by others for getting "too physical"--not sex--with a visiting non-student boyfriend). The ecclesiastical endorsement part of BYU could use reform. There was a day where people swore caffeinated beverages wouldn't every be sold on campus. lol

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue but the idea that one day same-sex displays of affection will be ok on BYU campus is ludicrous.



And frankly, it's getting annoying every time some buffoon tries to draw a parallel between plural marriage or the priesthood restriction in the past and the Church's stance on homosexuality now. It's these same people who bristle at the Proclamation on the Family because it sets forth an eternal truth - that gender does matter, it does have inspired roles, and both are needed for eternal life. The gay lifestyle is a literal dead end in the eternal sense.



I also get sick of the "LGBTQ community" playing the victim card. They've been milking it for all it's worth for a long time now. The irony of some in the scientific community pulling this stunt is how science quickly goes out the window when it conflicts with their social views. Others have simply bowed to social pressure, throwing out their integrity in the process. Case in point, everyone knows (or should know) someone who thinks they're the opposite sex from what they are is mentally ill and needs treatment. No different from, say, someone who has anorexia and sees themselves as fat while being skin and bones. Yet, while we're supposed to help them, this other set of mentally ill people is supposed to be cheered on and validated. Nevermind the scientific fact that there are only two sexes and it's impossible to change that.

KingCoug wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue but the idea that one day same-sex displays of affection will be ok on BYU campus is ludicrous.



And frankly, it's getting annoying every time some buffoon tries to draw a parallel between plural marriage or the priesthood restriction in the past and the Church's stance on homosexuality now. It's these same people who bristle at the Proclamation on the Family because it sets forth an eternal truth - that gender does matter, it does have inspired roles, and both are needed for eternal life. The gay lifestyle is a literal dead end in the eternal sense.



I also get sick of the "LGBTQ community" playing the victim card. They've been milking it for all it's worth for a long time now. The irony of some in the scientific community pulling this stunt is how science quickly goes out the window when it conflicts with their social views. Others have simply bowed to social pressure, throwing out their integrity in the process. Case in point, everyone knows (or should know) someone who thinks they're the opposite sex from what they are is mentally ill and needs treatment. No different from, say, someone who has anorexia and sees themselves as fat while being skin and bones. Yet, while we're supposed to help them, this other set of mentally ill people is supposed to be cheered on and validated. Nevermind the scientific fact that there are only two sexes and it's impossible to change that.

Wow....that escalated to name-calling in a hurry. You've made some leaps in logic and filled in my views with your prejudices without skipping a beat. Too bad you know nothing of my thoughts or how my views are represented. But you obviously aren't open to discussion on the matter. Good day.

Fido wrote:

I don't know guys.....if the church has survived abolition of polygamy and the priesthood to all worthy male members, it will survive this. I sometimes wonder why the honor code is more strict than church standards when it comes to attending and being involved. Nobody is turned away from the temple if they have a recommend. Nobody is turned away from a church meeting. But people who are welcome in Sacrament Meeting can be kicked out of BYU (I know first hand from someone close to me--she was welcomed and encouraged to attend church and take part in repentance but was kicked out of BYU-I as unworthy to attend after getting turned in twice by others for getting "too physical"--not sex--with a visiting non-student boyfriend). The ecclesiastical endorsement part of BYU could use reform. There was a day where people swore caffeinated beverages wouldn't every be sold on campus. lol

As to this specific issue, I don't think the parallel you a trying to draw is very accurate.



I know people who have been summoned to a disciplinary council and been disfellowshipped, then excommunicated for engaging in the same behavior prohibited by the Honor Code that led to these recent events. The behavior and actions at issue here will get temple recommends revoked and an instruction not to partake of the sacrament as well as get your ecclesiastical endorsement revoked.