Liberty game in retrospect

I've watched the game for the 2nd time and I don't exactly know why this is one of those wins where listening to the fans, you would have sworn we had lost.



I know 2 of Liberty's wins were against lower division teams, but that was a team with a very good offense. I just feel that not enough credit was given to Liberty. If we hadn't had the two turnovers, then the game isn't as close.



Now, about the scrum play and the fake field goal...I don't hardly know what to say rather than to question an answer...What the heck was that all about? You had 4 options on the 4th down play near the end of the game. 1. Run a standard play on the 4th down; 2. Kick a field goal ; 3. Punt the ball; 4. Run a "special play" (as Grimes calls them). 1 and 2 had higher probability and yet we picked #4 and were stuffed for a loss. So far with Kalani, we've seen him call some bone-headed stupid plays. I just don't get it unless he continues to believe that you try the most difficult option as most normal minded coach would not do that, so it comes as a big surprise. The problem is when the probability is so astronomically out there, they don't plan for them and it's usually not hurt them.



It will be interesting to see Liberty vs Virginia to see what kind of opponent we beat. As noted, we were 0-2 on turnovers and won the game. That usually indicative of strongly being the better team.

Also, the ESPN announcers stated, after watching that 4th down play, that they'd be sure to ask KS whether that really was what BYU was trying to do or because the snap hadn't been clean, that's how they reacted. I never heard if they had that opportunity and what was KS response. Anybody hear?

EM_Puma wrote:

I've watched the game for the 2nd time and I don't exactly know why this is one of those wins where listening to the fans, you would have sworn we had lost.



I know 2 of Liberty's wins were against lower division teams, but that was a team with a very good offense. I just feel that not enough credit was given to Liberty. If we hadn't had the two turnovers, then the game isn't as close.



Now, about the scrum play and the fake field goal...I don't hardly know what to say rather than to question an answer...What the heck was that all about? You had 4 options on the 4th down play near the end of the game. 1. Run a standard play on the 4th down; 2. Kick a field goal ; 3. Punt the ball; 4. Run a "special play" (as Grimes calls them). 1 and 2 had higher probability and yet we picked #4 and were stuffed for a loss. So far with Kalani, we've seen him call some bone-headed stupid plays. I just don't get it unless he continues to believe that you try the most difficult option as most normal minded coach would not do that, so it comes as a big surprise. The problem is when the probability is so astronomically out there, they don't plan for them and it's usually not hurt them.



It will be interesting to see Liberty vs Virginia to see what kind of opponent we beat. As noted, we were 0-2 on turnovers and won the game. That usually indicative of strongly being the better team.

Good thoughts! Two games in a row now we had “big deal” turnovers. By that I mean we are in the red zone driving and cough it up. Those really sap morale. Liberty’s one receiver manhandled us. The other time that happened was TN’s one receiver doing that to us. To be honest, he was open and should have caught that 4-21 (how could he be that open by the way?) I continue to be impressed with our receivers this year. They block well, catch very well and make plays. In addition to the puzzling play calls you mentioned, I don’t get the scrum package on second and nine?!? We apparently do not know how to defend the TE.

I just answered my own question. It was planned, but KS notes the the bobbled snap might have taken a second or so off the play and affected the outcome. So yes, it was a planned fake field goal.



https://www.heraldextra.com/sports/college/byu/football/byu-football-was-impressed-by-liberty-but-still-made-enough/article_8a3f506c-6392-5495-93d5-32e2156cf002.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social_jared_lloyd

A win is a win but you do have to look at some warning signs and not just assume everything is peachy just because we won (and this coaching staff tends to to just that). We play like that and have those TOs against a better team and it might be a L.



That Liberty QB sure has a rocket of an arm.



Go Cougs!

Also, before we praise Liberty too much they are #118 in Sagarin with a SOS of #133.

After the Liberty game, BYU is now #85 against the spread, so there's that.

This kind of reminds me of discussions after Portland State although Liberty is a better team obviously.



It’s another datapoint of uninspired play against a team BYU should be able to smack. Also, the vanilla defensive scheme is getting questioned for good reason.



I think KS deserves another season, unless a great known option is available. There are more question marks than answers at this point.

CougarCrazy wrote:

This kind of reminds me of discussions after Portland State although Liberty is a better team obviously.



It’s another datapoint of uninspired play against a team BYU should be able to smack. Also, the vanilla defensive scheme is getting questioned for good reason.



I think KS deserves another season, unless a great known option is available. There are more question marks than answers at this point.

Yes, I had thoughts about Portland St. as well! Some fans did not want to see the apparent glaring shortcomings during that game and were singing all is well.

byufan4ever wrote:

A win is a win but you do have to look at some warning signs and not just assume everything is peachy just because we won (and this coaching staff tends to to just that). We play like that and have those TOs against a better team and it might be a L.



That Liberty QB sure has a rocket of an arm.



Go Cougs!

Wins dull the pain of poor performance, while loses enhance it. The best coaches and players try to look hard at wins and learn from the mistakes made ... unfortunately, that is not typically the case for this coaching staff.

Liberty as a brand new FBS team is playing a weak schedule. Their rating is down due to that. It is quite possible that they are better than their ranking.

EM_Puma wrote:

Also, the ESPN announcers stated, after watching that 4th down play, that they'd be sure to ask KS whether that really was what BYU was trying to do or because the snap hadn't been clean, that's how they reacted. I never heard if they had that opportunity and what was KS response. Anybody hear?

Sitake said multiple times in the post game that it was a called, and practiced for this defense, fake punt that didn't go well.

I'm happy with the win but disappointed with the performance. BYU had just beaten 2 teams that would have destroyed this Liberty team and came out sleepwalking and ended up in a dog fight. I was hoping to see some consistency but true to form, Sitake's teams only Consistency is inconsistency.

Liberty is somewhat akin to the Hawaii teams of the past with "high powered offenses" scoring lots of points on nobody. This was the weakest team that we have played so far. We should have been able to have our 2nd stringers in for the entire 4th quarter.

byufan4ever wrote:

This was the weakest team that we have played so far. We should have been able to have our 2nd stringers in for the entire 4th quarter.

We'd both be guessing, but I think that Liberty team could have beaten USU.

As additional data points for Liberty's offense:



0 points against Syracuse

14 against LA Lafayette

17 against New Mexico

20 against New Mexico State

24 against BYU



Most teams with a defense that has a heartbeat has done better than BYU.

hawkwing wrote:

As additional data points for Liberty's offense:



0 points against Syracuse

14 against LA Lafayette

17 against New Mexico

20 against New Mexico State

24 against BYU



Most teams with a defense that has a heartbeat has done better than BYU.

Indicates that Liberty's offense is getting better as the year progresses. I'll be surprised if they don't near double the amount vs. NMS when they play them again. They just seemed like a well poised offense and I think they were better than we expected. Don't matter though because we won.



I'm just curious though as to why UVA scheduled them. Had to be Bronco feelin' for an independent school. They are a VA school too, but he gave them a late game in the season and It's hard to not believe he remembers those years.

hawkwing wrote:

As additional data points for Liberty's offense:



0 points against Syracuse

14 against LA Lafayette

17 against New Mexico

20 against New Mexico State

24 against BYU



Most teams with a defense that has a heartbeat has done better than BYU.

Liberty actually won two of those games listed above. I didn't see, but appears that they had a different game plan. Liberty's up-tempo offense against BYU was faster than anything I remember seeing in quite some time.



Ultimately, we actually held Liberty's offense to less than their scoring average, despite their aggressive, up-tempo game plan. Before the BYU-Liberty game, Liberty's offense was averaging 33.7 points per game; 26.1 points per game against FBS opponents (including that Week 1 goose egg).



Liberty had a bye week on October 12. Then had 59, 34, and 63 points in consecutive weeks leading into last week's matchup with BYU. QB Calvert will pass for more than 3,000 yards this year. He currently has a 23-3 TD-INT ratio. He was averaging over 350 yards per game and had 10 TD and zero INTs in the 3 games after the bye. WR Gandy-Golden has SEVEN 100-yard receiving games and 8 TDs.



Liberty's offense has been on a roll...averaging over 50 points per game the prior 3 weeks. Although there still were too many vanilla base defensive calls, BYU's defense wasn't my concern.



I'm more concerned that our offense didn't put up more points. Liberty was giving up 26.1 points per game; 23.4 points against FBS opponents. So, we did better than their average...BUT, we still should have done more, even with the red zone fumble turnover. Liberty recently gave up 44 points to each of Rutgers and FCS Maine. We need to punch the ball into the endzone more often against a team like Liberty.



That's what I will be watching in upcoming games against Idaho State and UMass...31 points isn't enough against the weaker defenses on our schedules. We need to get into a nice scoring rhythm so that we can go into the SDSU game running on all cylinders.

EM_Puma wrote:

As additional data points for Liberty's offense:



0 points against Syracuse

14 against LA Lafayette

17 against New Mexico

20 against New Mexico State

24 against BYU



Most teams with a defense that has a heartbeat has done better than BYU.

Indicates that Liberty's offense is getting better as the year progresses. I'll be surprised if they don't near double the amount vs. NMS when they play them again. They just seemed like a well poised offense and I think they were better than we expected. Don't matter though because we won.



I'm just curious though as to why UVA scheduled them. Had to be Bronco feelin' for an independent school. They are a VA school too, but he gave them a late game in the season and It's hard to not believe he remembers those years.

Liberty has scheduled two 3-game series with UVA over a 12-year period. Two 2-for-1's, front loaded with three games in Charlottesville in November 2018, 2019 and 2020. Liberty hosts UVA in 2027 and 2029, with a final game at UVA in 2030.



Liberty has also scheduled six games with Virginia Tech - 4 at Virginia Tech and 2 at Liberty. They've also scheduled 2-for-1s with Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, and North Carolina. Many of the road games are in November. So, while Bronco's feelings toward an independent school may have factored into the UVA deal, Liberty has been able to get similar deals with other nearby P5 schools.



Liberty's aggressive 2-for-1 scheduling will eventually get them a P5 opponent at home each year, starting from 2025 through 2030. To offset these 2-for-1s, they have TWO FCS opponents in each of last year, this year and next year and they've actually scheduled a payday game with Old Dominion (with whom they already had a home-home contract) for an $800K guaranteed payout.



They've been able to get a deal with Army and long-term deals with UMass, UConn, and New Mexico State. So, Liberty has some decent independent schedules for a new FBS school.

YNot wrote:



Liberty has scheduled two 3-game series with UVA over a 12-year period. Two 2-for-1's, front loaded with three games in Charlottesville in November 2018, 2019 and 2020. Liberty hosts UVA in 2027 and 2029, with a final game at UVA in 2030.



Liberty has also scheduled six games with Virginia Tech - 4 at Virginia Tech and 2 at Liberty. They've also scheduled 2-for-1s with Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, and North Carolina. Many of the road games are in November. So, while Bronco's feelings toward an independent school may have factored into the UVA deal, Liberty has been able to get similar deals with other nearby P5 schools.



Liberty's aggressive 2-for-1 scheduling will eventually get them a P5 opponent at home each year, starting from 2025 through 2030. To offset these 2-for-1s, they have TWO FCS opponents in each of last year, this year and next year and they've actually scheduled a payday game with Old Dominion (with whom they already had a home-home contract) for an $800K guaranteed payout.



They've been able to get a deal with Army and long-term deals with UMass, UConn, and New Mexico State. So, Liberty has some decent independent schedules for a new FBS school.

It sounds like BYU was more benevolent then in not demanding a 2 for 1. It hasn't been that many years since we stung USU for that same arrangement. I think that was responsible for some of the bitterness in their fans, but heck, at least we continue to play them regularly, unlike another school up north.