Jimmer's foul calls

So is this going to become the way things are for the rest of the conference season for Fredette:



Offensively he drives, gets clobbered by 2-3 guys, hits the floor and no call is made. Then he returns on defense, extends his hand a little and the whistle blows? Usually the stars get the calls, but in Jimmer's case he sure seems to be treated with a double standard. His frustration seemed to show through in the second half there a bit . . . I'm glad he relieves his frustration by dropping 36 on his rivals. :evil:

BYULV wrote:
So is this going to become the way things are for the rest of the conference season for Fredette:



Offensively he drives, gets clobbered by 2-3 guys, hits the floor and no call is made. Then he returns on defense, extends his hand a little and the whistle blows? Usually the stars get the calls, but in Jimmer's case he sure seems to be treated with a double standard. His frustration seemed to show through in the second half there a bit . . . I'm glad he relieves his frustration by dropping 36 on his rivals. :evil:

Jimmer gets his share of calls.

He does his share of calls, but the last several years, MWC pre-season POYs got a lot more calls than Jimmer does. At least those not playing for BYU.

If only he were black, or playing at another school, then he'd get the calls.

I'm glad he grew up playing at the local penitentiary or however that story goes. I'm sure then that he's used to being mugged and not getting the calls.



On a serious note, and I don't know if there is an answer, does BYU really get fewer calls or does it just seem that way. If I didn't have another sport to compare to, then I could probably answer that question myself, but I did grow up and I was an adult by the time I became a Cougar fan and I just don't remember, and maybe I've forgotten somewhat, ever seeing Ohio State called with the same number of fouls that it appears that BYU gets whistled for. Maybe it's their general lack of athleticism that makes them look less deserving, if that makes sense, but generally speaking I do watch a lot of college BB and I just don't see this issue in other conference games.



I guess in the pregrame KSL telecast that they did mention that issue for the New Mexico game and generally speaking, I don't hear those two announcers whine much about calls to where they actually make the statement that the game was poorly called.



I did see one flagrent missed call this week in another ball game. I was watching the Michigan/Michigan State game and Michigan drives to mid court with 6-9 seconds left in the game down one point and the MSU player grabs the Michigan player as he crosses mid court by the shorts and jersey as they had a foul to give and the ref, who was watching the play in front of him, didn't call a flagrant foul. That was the exact type of scenario that they created that foul call so a team couldn't "cheat" the other team. So much for the refs doing their duty. Someone said some refs don't want to make such a call that could "decide the game". Well not calling it decided the game in favor of MSU for certain as then Michigan was left with the ball out on the side with 2.6 seconds. I would have been really PO'd had I really been a Michigan fan and shame on a ref that fails to do his duty when it's that obvious.

Fouls called on BYU against the "athletic" teams in the MWC the last few years. Make of it what you will. BYU's biggest disparity at home was +6 against UNLV this year. The biggest disparity on the road was -12 against UNM again this year.



In this sample BYU has nine home games. In only four of them was BYU called for fewer fouls. While in five of the ten road games was BYU called for more fouls (with two games having equal amounts). In none of the four neutral games did BYU enjoy fewer foul calls.



2010:

BYUvsUNM: 25-13 (A)

BYUvsSDSU:11-12 (A)

BYUvsUNLV:12-18 (H)



2009:

BYUvsUNM:17-18(A); 23-21 (H)

BYUvsSDSU:16-15 (H); 14-14(A)

BYUvsUNLV:18-15 (H); 18-13 (A)



2008:

BYUvsUNM:22-24(A); 18-21 (H)

BYUvsSDSU:26-16 (H); 14-14(A)

BYUvsUNLV:20-19 (A); 17-22 (H); 22-18 ("N")



Other Notable "athletic" teams:

2008 Wake Forest: 18-15 (A);

2008 UNC: 24-13 (N)

2008 Louisville: 20-20 (N)

2009 Wake Forest: 28-21 (H)

2009 Arizona St: 26-18 ("N")

2010 Arizona: 21-13 (A)

2010 Arizona St: 18-19 (H)

I think this is a pretty godd illustration of how it goes for BYU, although this is no doubt the most extreme case I"ve seen. I was at every home game when Shawn Bradley played. I don't think that he ever caught a pass without being shoved hard in the back as he received it, and virtually never got a call. Other teams watched film and knew that they could get away with it. Whenever he had the ball, if he turned, his elbos were at the defender's head level, so they bellied up to him, and his elbos, which weren't usually extended, would hit them (not neccessarily hard). He got tons of fouls called for elbos, but I don't remenber him ever really throwing one.



In one game, he was trying to post up along the side of the key. His defender was moving him out by elboing him hard in the ribs. When the guy got him moved a few feet, he would roll around to the other side, and the defender would elbo his other ribs. The crowd, who could see what was going on, was yelling at the ref to call it, when the defender really laid into him, lifting him off the floor, and he fell down. The whistle blew, the crowd cheered, and the ref pointed down to the ground at Bradley.



Mikely Wesley used to foul out all the time, and I couldn't see that he played any rougher or more out of control than his opponents.



Luke Neville mugged our centers for four years, and they seemed to get all the fouls called on them. I think that he is auditioning to be the new Shaque as we speak. ;)

Some of these stats can be deceiving as the count against a losing opponent in a close game (ie UNLV this year) is going to go up in the last few minutes of the game due to intentional fouls. On another thread I listed a few articles/studies showing referee bias (one is this: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4682821). Too bad there is no study about referee bias toward BYU BBall - maybe someone can do it for their master's thesis.

Wink Adams was the worst, he got every call down the strech. The New Mexico game, a few times he went to the rack no foul and then on the other end he gets bumped and gets a 3 point play. What I lover about Jimmer being from New York he can break the press and play physical. He should get the same calls as the other New York guards that go to UNLV. They can handcheck and play physical but when Jimmer plays the same way he gets called. Drives me crazy everytime we play UNLV.

This still begs from me the question as to why this seems to be true or appears to be true to us fans? I just can't imagine that the MWC went out and found guys that had a negative feeling toward BYU and therefore they would be unscrupulous and call BYU for fouls that the opponent got away with.



I can't imagine that our style of play is so dramatically different from our opponents that they would call a foul when, for instance, a UNLV player drives to the hole as opposed to Jimmer doing the same.



I just try to understand a lot of life logically and I can't come to terms with this concept. I hate to admit it, but when the ref went down in the Utah game Saturday, I was pleased with the fact that we'd have one less zebra on the floor. Then he comes back and within minutes, he called two fouls that from the replays were pretty bad calls. I hadn't noticed too bad of a game called in the first half and then the second half comes along and it's like the refs need to be that sixth man and help the Utes along. I just don't understand this and I probably never will until we play in the hereafter and we won't need refs as we'll be honest and call our own fouls ;)

I don't get why BYU gets labeled as unathletic. Haws, Abouo and Jimmer have been the best athletes on the floor on either side in almost all of BYU's games this year. Emery isn't really that far behind, and Davies is a great athlete. Athletic does not equal black (although Abouo and Davies are both african american).



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stuckinbig10country wrote:
I don't get why BYU gets labeled as unathletic. Haws, Abouo and Jimmer have been the best athletes on the floor on either side in almost all of BYU's games this year. Emery isn't really that far behind, and Davies is a great athlete. Athletic does not equal black (although Abouo and Davies are both african american).



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I'd agree with Abouo, Jimmer and Davies. I think Haws is more finese like. Davies is still a bit raw because he need to learn to get his cover guy to foul more often, but I think he has a lot more natural basketball savy then the other big men on the team. Abouo and Jimmer are my prototypes of players that I think are athletic that play for BYU.

EM_Puma wrote:

I don't get why BYU gets labeled as unathletic. Haws, Abouo and Jimmer have been the best athletes on the floor on either side in almost all of BYU's games this year. Emery isn't really that far behind, and Davies is a great athlete. Athletic does not equal black (although Abouo and Davies are both african american).



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I'd agree with Abouo, Jimmer and Davies. I think Haws is more finese like. Davies is still a bit raw because he need to learn to get his cover guy to foul more often, but I think he has a lot more natural basketball savy then the other big men on the team. Abouo and Jimmer are my prototypes of players that I think are athletic that play for BYU.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't put Emery in the list of athletic players, maybe first on the list for BYU. There is no one working harder, running faster, jumping higher than he is during a game (have you seen his elevation on his jumpshot or to block a shot?). He is not broad and buff like Jimmer or Abouo, but size does not make you athletic. As a linebacker I would pick Jimmer or Abouo, but as an athletic BBall player I think Emery is the top of the class for BYU, followed by abouo, Loyd, Fredette, Morgan Jr., Haws (moved up after the Utah game and his dunk), Davies and Hartsock. I used to think JT was athletic, but I just haven't seen it this year.