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Precedent

by Mars · 1/29/2010

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M
Mars


Chris Peterson at Boise State automatically pulls your scholarship offer if you trip to another school after verballing.



Les Miles at LSU yanks your verbal schollie if you visit another school after committing to him.



I'm sure there are many more examples. Are you a fan of another school that does the same thing?
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Lawboy
Mars wrote:


Chris Peterson at Boise State automatically pulls your scholarship offer if you trip to another school after verballing.



Les Miles at LSU yanks your verbal schollie if you visit another school after committing to him.



I'm sure there are many more examples. Are you a fan of another school that does the same thing?


I get why LSU and SEC schools do it. They have 4 star recruits waiting in line. We do not. Neither does BSU. And most schools do it so they can pursue other players for that spot. BYU pulled Schwenke's schollie. Who did they then offer? If no one, pulling it made ZERO sense under the circumstances. If hey had someone in mind to give it to, then I get it.
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Mars
Lawboy wrote:
I get why LSU and SEC schools do it. They have 4 star recruits waiting in line. We do not. Neither does BSU.
You don't think BYU, BSU, and LSU don't lose less recruits with this policy? If that's the fact, who cares who they fill these spots with, when they have already gained more by using this policy in the first place?



Besides, BYU is over-booked on schollies right now anyways.
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gmj81
Paul Johnson of Georgia Tech doesn't stand for it either and already pulled the offer to a highly ranked "commit" this year for taking additional visits.
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gmj81
Dick Harmon weighs in on the matter:



http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/60/Harmons-Halftime.html



Some have asked my opinion on the Kona situation wherein the DE recruit from Hawaii had his scholarship offer taken back when he took a late trip to Notre Dame.



Drew Phillips, the Alabama RB had the same situation crop up this week with a late trip offer from Cincinnati. Phillips, when questioned by BYU coaches over the commitment to BYU and how it weighed with taking a late trip, immediately canceled plans to go to Cincinnati this weekend.



What you have here is BYU questioning commitment. Either you have it or you don't. Regardless of what is said, actions speak the loudest. After having several recruits do similar things and decide to go elsewhere in recent years, several from the Islands at the last minute, BYU's staff has simply decided these last minute trips do not ring true with the mutual agreement made in an oral commitment by both parties. Such trips take time and energy from schools not to mention a lot of money.



I know many football coaches who are excellent and experienced recruiters. They do not like the business. It is tacky and humiliating to go before a teen age kid and beg for his services. Some coaches loath the experience.



They hate the last minute drama. I remember when Sean Salisbury from Escondido committed to LaVell Edwards on a Sunday night then signed with USC on Wednesday. BYU got stuck with Steve Young. And they liked what they got stuck with. Young is in the College Football Hall of Fame; Salisbury is not.



Coaches are sick of this stuff. Evidently Bronco is not going to play the game with recruits now or in the future.



I think Bronco Mendenhall is trying to change the dynamics of how BYU athletes are approached, groomed, sold and accepting scholarships for football. Either they want to be at BYU or they do not. It is a simple question. Once that answer is given, BYU looks at that as a signing on to the entire program and school and team. A deviation from that questions the commitment. Mendenhall could care less if a guy has two, three, four or five stars behind his name on the recruiting services. If he doesn't believe he shows by his actions that he is sold on BYU, he'll help find the guy another place. He'll call Steve Sarkisian on the phone personally and get him a place somewhere he'll be happy. Can you say Shiloah Teo?



Unhappy and uncommitted BYU players don't do themselves nor the team any good.



I don't know Kona. I can't judge him in this case. He may have been 110 percent committed to the Cougars, like he has told folks following this story. But when he accepted a late trip from Notre Dame he started the motion for his scholarship to be taken. Like most years BYU has over-committed scholarships. BYU told Brighton's DT Ricky Heimuli this more than a week ago. Because of the economy of these scholarships this year, they've become precious as gold to BYU's staff. A late trip didn't make sense and they've let recruits know.



I've talked to Phillips coach when he had his trip scheduled to Cincy. I then talked to folks in Boaz after BYU OC Robert Anae got there on Wednesday for a Thursday visit. That Cincy trip went by the wayside faster than you could say Bearcat dip.



In the current climate, Phillips read the message correctly and there was no misunderstanding.



Sounds like DH has been reading my posts ;) Haha, not that it's really that hard to piece together for oneself after following the situation for any length of time and reading the available info.
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Lawboy
Good article, and this makes sense to me. I understand why Bronco pulled the schollie, if this is in fact why. I still do not like it if he used the HC to question integrity, though. Just pull it without doing that.



I did find it interesting that Harmon insinuated that Bronco got Te'o his spot at UW. Especially since so many here have blamed Te'o for the Jamora loss, and are trying to pin the Schwenke defection on Te'o as well.
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bigbluepuma
Lawboy wrote:


Chris Peterson at Boise State automatically pulls your scholarship offer if you trip to another school after verballing.



Les Miles at LSU yanks your verbal schollie if you visit another school after committing to him.



I'm sure there are many more examples. Are you a fan of another school that does the same thing?


I get why LSU and SEC schools do it. They have 4 star recruits waiting in line. We do not. Neither does BSU. And most schools do it so they can pursue other players for that spot. BYU pulled Schwenke's schollie. Who did they then offer? If no one, pulling it made ZERO sense under the circumstances. If hey had someone in mind to give it to, then I get it.


It's really worked out badly for BSU, hasn't it? :bug: :roll: ;) :evil:
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bigbluepuma
Lawboy wrote:
Good article, and this makes sense to me. I understand why Bronco pulled the schollie, if this is in fact why. I still do not like it if he used the HC to question integrity, though. Just pull it without doing that.



I did find it interesting that Harmon insinuated that Bronco got Te'o his spot at UW. Especially since so many here have blamed Te'o for the Jamora loss, and are trying to pin the Schwenke defection on Te'o as well.


Why? The HC is foremost with Bronco. He wants recruits to think about it in the decisions they make. He didn't tell Kona that he was letting 10,000,000 Members of the church down.
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Lawboy
Put it this way. It is the equivalent of saying, "so, you're not committed to my program and what it stands for, so I question your personal integrity". Sorry, but that rubs me wrong. If that happened to my son, I'd be upset as well. It is manipulative. I understand why BYU did not want him to take the trip, and wanted him to honor his verbal. But that just did not need to be said. The HC is not an axe to wield. It is a code of conduct to aspire to. Bronco used it as an axe.
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jonnylingo
I understand what he is trying to establish. I just think it lead to us losing him. He could have tripped, signed wednesday, and been every bit as committed, in fact probably more so committed than he would have been if he didn't trip. Either way, at this point kona will not be a cougar for sure.



i agree with lawboy. bronco doesn't need to question his ability to commit to the honor code simply because his commitment to play for byu was waining. That is what really urks me and i can see why it would urk kona.



oh well, we still have a great class of players who are very commited to byu. they are a tight knit group this year. kona is missing out.
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snoscythe
You give me your word, and then go out and do things in direct contravention of what you promised me? I'm sure as hell going to question your integrity, especially when I have gone out and told other players to look elsewhere for scholarships based on your promise to me that you were coming to BYU.



Good on Bronco. Nice to see some accountability in recruiting.
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Mars
jonnylingo wrote:
i agree with lawboy. bronco doesn't need to question his ability to commit to the honor code simply because his commitment to play for byu was waining. That is what really urks me and i can see why it would urk kona.

You're both dead wrong. Try to follow the logic here:



-You say you're 100% committed to BYU.

-You are hosting other coaches in your home and scheduling recruiting trips to other schools who are responding to your interest by offering you a scholarship.

* That's dishonest. Part of the Honor Code is obviously honesty.



-You say you've been led by prayer to accept a BYU scholarship.

-You are told that if you do "X" then you will lose your BYU scholarship. You then immediately do "X".

* So you will ignore an answer to your prayer but you can be trusted to listen to your coaches?



Please quit while you're behind. Logic is not on your side here.
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Guest
Those of you who are insinuating that Bronco said something along the lines of someone who doesn't commit to BYU can't live the honor code are being purposely obtuse, or are simply dramatically misunderstanding what really happened.



When these young men commit they are committing to BYU per BYU's rules. Yes, it is true that it is not a legally binding agreement, but they know from the recruiting process what a verbal commitment means between the two parties and both parties have to have the integrity to live up to that. When a kid does commit to that knowing that he from that time forward cannot take other trips, yet does so anyway, he is not honoring that commitment.



The legalities and the NCAA rules are meaningless, because this is solely based on an agreement between a recruit and BYU, other than they are the bare minimum standard. BYU has higher standards, if you receive revelation that you are to come here, you'd best live up to those standards.
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Short_Change
jonnylingo wrote:
I understand what he is trying to establish. I just think it lead to us losing him. He could have tripped, signed wednesday, and been every bit as committed, in fact probably more so committed than he would have been if he didn't trip. Either way, at this point kona will not be a cougar for sure.



i agree with lawboy. bronco doesn't need to question his ability to commit to the honor code simply because his commitment to play for byu was waining. That is what really urks me and i can see why it would urk kona.



oh well, we still have a great class of players who are very commited to byu. they are a tight knit group this year. kona is missing out.


Do you honestly think that if Bronco didn't pull his offer that Kona would have tripped to ND and then still signed with BYU with all that just happened? What odds would you have put on that?
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ProV1
It's kind of like being engaged to a really pretty girl but making out with a hottie over the weekend, just for fun. You're still engaged and you haven't committed any sins but the pretty girl doesn't like it.
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Guest
ProV1 wrote:
It's kind of like being engaged to a really pretty girl but making out with a hottie over the weekend, just for fun. You're still engaged and you haven't committed any sins but the pretty girl doesn't like it.


Except in this case, the guy gets engaged to a super hot and up and coming woman with a great future in front of her, and a great family and past. But you then decide to go and get dirty with an old hag down the street who at one time used to be really hot, but is now just a shadow of her former self with nothing to look forward to.
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jonnylingo
Lawboy wrote:
Put it this way. It is the equivalent of saying, "so, you're not committed to my program and what it stands for, so I question your personal integrity". Sorry, but that rubs me wrong. If that happened to my son, I'd be upset as well. It is manipulative. I understand why BYU did not want him to take the trip, and wanted him to honor his verbal. But that just did not need to be said. The HC is not an axe to wield. It is a code of conduct to aspire to. Bronco used it as an axe.


We apparently are the only ones that think this.
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Lawboy
See my marriage story. It is the truth, too, not a lame analogy to prove a point. Sometimes, you swallow your pride, and you put your best foot forward afterwards. You do not question integrity. My wife is the most honest person I have ever met--to a fault at times. Did she back out on a verbal commitment to me? Yep? But I understood why. Was a huge decision, and emotional decision, and not an easy decision. Questioning her integrity would have been BS and childish. People change their minds. You have to allow for it. And you then have to deal with it like a grown up.
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jonnylingo
snoscythe wrote:
You give me your word, and then go out and do things in direct contravention of what you promised me? I'm sure as hell going to question your integrity, especially when I have gone out and told other players to look elsewhere for scholarships based on your promise to me that you were coming to BYU.



Good on Bronco. Nice to see some accountability in recruiting.


That is a question not answered yet. The schwenkes said they were never told they couldn't trip. they did however know that it was in bad taste. that is why they denied the uw trip. nd was too much to pass up though. i don't blame him. i still think he would have been a cougar had our coaches not overeacted. the coaches did an amazing job creating a real sense of unity among this class. kona should have been able to go visit notre dame without his integrity being questioned. but that is just my opinion.
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jonnylingo
hawkwing wrote:
It's kind of like being engaged to a really pretty girl but making out with a hottie over the weekend, just for fun. You're still engaged and you haven't committed any sins but the pretty girl doesn't like it.


Except in this case, the guy gets engaged to a super hot and up and coming woman with a great future in front of her, and a great family and past. But you then decide to go and get dirty with an old hag down the street who at one time used to be really hot, but is now just a shadow of her former self with nothing to look forward to.


bad analogy. nd dame is hardly a 'hag' of a football team. Kona already had a strong relationship and history with byu, its coaches, and players. the one weekend in nd wasn't going to be enough to sway him. He would have commited to byu.
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