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Can we please refrain from villainizing the schwenkes

by jonnylingo · 1/29/2010

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J
jonnylingo
Thats all.
S
Sammich
They're gone, so why would it matter?



Even if a future recruit is reading this board, all they'll get is that Cougar fans are not cool with a recruit reneging on his agreement for the sake of a free trip. I can't see how that would be bad.
J
jonnylingo
Sammich wrote:
They're gone, so why would it matter?



Even if a future recruit is reading this board, all they'll get is that Cougar fans are not cool with a recruit reneging on his agreement for the sake of a free trip. I can't see how that would be bad.


Because its lame and there is an argument that it can hurt our future recruiting. either way though they are not bad people and going out of our way to make them look that way is in bad taste and a stupid waste of time. Lets not forget these guys are still on 'our team'. They are still members of our church. Nothing good will come out of us bashing them and calling them liars.
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bigbluepuma
I fear we are breaking our Kahuku connection. That would not be good. :~(
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gmj81
I don't really see anything that has been "villainous" in nature. This has been nothing compared to the fan unrest over the Te'o or Kavienga ordeals.



I think most people have reported what's happened (and pretty accurately I must say) and have expressed their sadness over the families apparent lack of integrity (that really can't be called into question here). But if that is what you call "villainizing", then please send your remarks to the Schwenkes too for "villainizing" BYU with their remarks over their "ugliness" through this whole situation.
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S
Sammich
jonnylingo wrote:
They're gone, so why would it matter?



Even if a future recruit is reading this board, all they'll get is that Cougar fans are not cool with a recruit reneging on his agreement for the sake of a free trip. I can't see how that would be bad.


Because its lame and there is an argument that it can hurt our future recruiting. either way though they are not bad people and going out of our way to make them look that way is in bad taste and a stupid waste of time. Lets not forget these guys are still on 'our team'. They are still members of our church. Nothing good will come out of us bashing them and calling them liars.

I agree that people shouldn't call them liars. But that was one post. However, it's not a stretch to say they were dishonest, and I don't see that as "villainizing," nor do I really see it as harmful.
J
jonnylingo
bigbluepuma wrote:
I fear we are breaking our Kahuku connection. That would not be good. :~(


Consider it torched.
G
gmj81
jonnylingo wrote:
They're gone, so why would it matter?



Even if a future recruit is reading this board, all they'll get is that Cougar fans are not cool with a recruit reneging on his agreement for the sake of a free trip. I can't see how that would be bad.


Because its lame and there is an argument that it can hurt our future recruiting. either way though they are not bad people and going out of our way to make them look that way is in bad taste and a stupid waste of time. Lets not forget these guys are still on 'our team'. They are still members of our church. Nothing good will come out of us bashing them and calling them liars.


If all you're concerned about is hurting future recruiting then you should be happy that Bronco is nipping this kind of behaviour in the bud. This sets a precedent for future recruits and commits that he doesn't mess around when it comes to his program, especially the honor part of it.



We've wasted lots of time in the past on recruits who didn't want to be at BYU. But every year, those kind of recruits are getting fewer and fewer. Bronco is refining his process and continues to get better results.
M
Mars
jonnylingo wrote:
Thats all.

Boo-frickin'-hoo. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
D
Ddawg
Mars wrote:
Thats all.

Boo-frickin'-hoo. Good riddance to bad rubbish.


It's not so black & white. It's mostly shades gray. It's not a god thing to offend

to the point that current & future recruits are given "pause" because of the way fans may react.



I would suggest - our initial reaction (though very disappointed) should have been guarded, tempered with caution & hope - till signing day. If & when Kona did sign his LOI with another school - there is plenty of time for anger & recrimination.



Look - Kona was committed to BYU - did either Notre Dame or UW fans burn any bridges by attacking him? Nope - doors remain open & bridges intact. You just never know. You never know - now & in the future!! IMHO.
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Mars
Ddawg wrote:
It's not so black & white. It's mostly shades gray. It's not a god thing to offend to the point that current & future recruits are given "pause" because of the way fans may react. I would suggest - our initial reaction (though very disappointed) should have been guarded, tempered with caution & hope - till signing day. If & when Kona did sign his LOI with another school - there is plenty of time for anger & recrimination. Look - Kona was committed to BYU - did either Notre Dame or UW fans burn any bridges by attacking him? Nope - doors remain open & bridges intact. You just never know. You never know - now & in the future!! IMHO.

I know that your hope springs eternal Dawg, but Kona no longer holds a scholarship offer from BYU, and we are entering the dead period before signing day where no more contact can be made. It's over with now, end of story. Whether or not the kid is offended by the truth about his actions, I don't care. Like Jamora and Matangi, he simply isn't BYU's problem to worry about anymore.
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Sammich
Mars wrote:
we are entering the dead period before signing day where no more contact can be made.

So how do the rules work---is BYU only prevented from contacting recruits that have already committed, or is it ANY potential recruit?



Hopefully it's not the latter, otherwise Kona screwed us over pretty good with the timing of this thing.
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bigbluepuma
Ddawg wrote:
jonnylingo wrote:
Thats all.

Boo-frickin'-hoo. Good riddance to bad rubbish.


It's not so black & white. It's mostly shades gray. It's not a god thing to offend

to the point that current & future recruits are given "pause" because of the way fans may react.



I would suggest - our initial reaction (though very disappointed) should have been guarded, tempered with caution & hope - till signing day. If & when Kona did sign his LOI with another school - there is plenty of time for anger & recrimination.



Look - Kona was committed to BYU - did either Notre Dame or UW fans burn any bridges by attacking him? Nope - doors remain open & bridges intact. You just never know. You never know - now & in the future!! IMHO.


I once had an institute director who told us that a girl is fair game, no matter what's on her finger, until she is married. If she is willing to jump ship, she didn't have the proper commitment ( whether for a good reason or a bad reason) to go into the planned marriage. Other universities have a right to try. The commit should have the integrity and level of commitment to spurn their advances. Sometimes the young preson doesn't understand this, but when asked by the betrothed to honor the commitment, there should be no question. Drew Phillips was truly committed, Kona Schwenke was not.
J
jonnylingo
bigbluepuma wrote:
Mars wrote:
Thats all.

Boo-frickin'-hoo. Good riddance to bad rubbish.


It's not so black & white. It's mostly shades gray. It's not a god thing to offend

to the point that current & future recruits are given "pause" because of the way fans may react.



I would suggest - our initial reaction (though very disappointed) should have been guarded, tempered with caution & hope - till signing day. If & when Kona did sign his LOI with another school - there is plenty of time for anger & recrimination.



Look - Kona was committed to BYU - did either Notre Dame or UW fans burn any bridges by attacking him? Nope - doors remain open & bridges intact. You just never know. You never know - now & in the future!! IMHO.


I once had an institute director who told us that a girl is fair game, no matter what's on her finger, until she is married. If she is willing to jump ship, she didn't have the proper commitment ( whether for a good reason or a bad reason) to go into the planned marriage. Other universities have a right to try. The commit should have the integrity and level of commitment to spurn their advances. Sometimes the young preson doesn't understand this, but when asked by the betrothed to honor the commitment, there should be no question. Drew Phillips was truly committed, Kona Schwenke was not.


Well put. you even managed to not call him garbage.
L
Lawboy
Until LOI day, recruits are fair game. There are no ethics to it, or morality to it, per NCAA rules. only after LOI days do those ethics attach. We act like we are different, but it is RECRUITING!! Go after those kids, keep courting them, and do not stop, or else someone will slip in and take the kid. It's like dating. Do you keep courting your girl, or do you take her commitment for granted, then let someone slip in and take her because they show more interest and commitment to them than you do? Commitment goes both ways. Do not take a commitment for granted. If you do, you just might lose it.
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Mars
Lawboy wrote:
Until LOI day, recruits are fair game. There are no ethics to it, or morality to it, per NCAA rules. only after LOI days do those ethics attach. We act like we are different, but it is RECRUITING!! Go after those kids, keep courting them, and do not stop, or else someone will slip in and take the kid. It's like dating. Do you keep courting your girl, or do you take her commitment for granted, then let someone slip in and take her because they show more interest and commitment to them than you do? Commitment goes both ways. Do not take a commitment for granted. If you do, you just might lose it.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should. Bronco could technically yank the scholarship of every BYU player currently on the team who is from the state of Hawaii, and the NCAA wouldn't have any issue with it. That wouldn't make it right. Shame on you.
I
imuakahuku
I just wanted to offer a little insight. Living in Laie and growing up there is almost a world apart from living anywhere on the mainland save maybe Alaska. I have lived in numerous states and the lifestyle is completely different. That said I would like to take into consideration that there are very very few well to do families that have kids at Kahuku. A monumental trip is usually when a kid goes to an outer island for scouts or something along that line. They may get the chance to go to the mainland once before graduating from high school because of football, wrestling, or band. Or they may get a chance to visit family in Utah or California once. That pales in comparison to the trips that many families-including many of the poorer ones that jump in the car and for gas money drive a state or two over to spend time with family several times before the kids are out of the house. And I remember only one group of kids even remotely close to my age that went further east than Utah while still in high school and that was for a band trip to play in the citrus or orange bowl parade. That is from 10 years older than me to 10 years younger than me. It almost never happens. So I can see how this could be viewed by Kona and his family as simply an opportunity to go east for a visit. I remember the one trip I took to the mainland and I always will. After being on the same island for so many years and only seeing on TV or hearing about what it was like on the mainland, it was an eye opening experience for me at the time. It is different when you are a small child and a teen. Around when I turned 18 is when I really came down with “island fever”. It was especially tough because when I was real young and we lived in the east, we took numerous trips to Mich, Fla, and MD. So please don’t jump too heavily on Kona about wanting to get of the rock because that in and of itself is a life experience that doesn’t come along too often to kids from Kahuku.

The dumb thing about this whole process is that these kids don't have to sign anything and especially not on that one day. They can sit back and wait if they want to, maybe all the scholies are gone but if you are good enough one will be available, and make the commitment later. I can't fault Kona for wanting to go but I would think because there is no law that states that all recruits must sign on "national LOI day" there could be some patience exercised. BYU will not lose on any recruit if Kona doesn’t sign because they need the extra one for Kaveinga anyways, and it will also prove whether Kona is truly committed to BYU. BYU doesn’t lose either way.
L
Lawboy
Not to mention, what happens if Kona went to Notre Dame, liked it, but still liked BYU more, and realized his commitment to BYU just became stronger? What if?
S
SpiffCoug
imuakahuku wrote:
I just wanted to offer a little insight. Living in Laie and growing up there is almost a world apart from living anywhere on the mainland save maybe Alaska. I have lived in numerous states and the lifestyle is completely different. That said I would like to take into consideration that there are very very few well to do families that have kids at Kahuku. A monumental trip is usually when a kid goes to an outer island for scouts or something along that line. They may get the chance to go to the mainland once before graduating from high school because of football, wrestling, or band. Or they may get a chance to visit family in Utah or California once. That pales in comparison to the trips that many families-including many of the poorer ones that jump in the car and for gas money drive a state or two over to spend time with family several times before the kids are out of the house. And I remember only one group of kids even remotely close to my age that went further east than Utah while still in high school and that was for a band trip to play in the citrus or orange bowl parade. That is from 10 years older than me to 10 years younger than me. It almost never happens. So I can see how this could be viewed by Kona and his family as simply an opportunity to go east for a visit. I remember the one trip I took to the mainland and I always will. After being on the same island for so many years and only seeing on TV or hearing about what it was like on the mainland, it was an eye opening experience for me at the time. It is different when you are a small child and a teen. Around when I turned 18 is when I really came down with “island fever”. It was especially tough because when I was real young and we lived in the east, we took numerous trips to Mich, Fla, and MD. So please don’t jump too heavily on Kona about wanting to get of the rock because that in and of itself is a life experience that doesn’t come along too often to kids from Kahuku.

The dumb thing about this whole process is that these kids don't have to sign anything and especially not on that one day. They can sit back and wait if they want to, maybe all the scholies are gone but if you are good enough one will be available, and make the commitment later. I can't fault Kona for wanting to go but I would think because there is no law that states that all recruits must sign on "national LOI day" there could be some patience exercised. BYU will not lose on any recruit if Kona doesn’t sign because they need the extra one for Kaveinga anyways, and it will also prove whether Kona is truly committed to BYU. BYU doesn’t lose either way.


I don't care if they never get off the island. If you want to leave and "just go visit friends" then pay for it yourself. I know it's expensive to travel to and from the Islands. I don't care. Pay for it yourself. Recruiting visits are not paid vacations. They're business trips. To use them as otherwise is dishonest and fraudulent.
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Guest
He had ample opportunity to take recruiting trips before he committed to BYU, it probably would be even less of a big deal if he had done it several months ago. The fact is it was incredibly poorly timed and thought out.
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