Rate of BYU Early Departures

https://twitter.com/BYUstatsMAN/status/1111289341970513920



https://pa1.narvii.com/7093/a1c1112d2d03659c0f3cb0e439e16da307a239e0r1-498-470_hq.gif" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Over 50%. Wow.



That has to be above the national average.

I find it hard to correlate this phenomenon to membership in the WCC. Maybe that wasn't your point.



Nevertheless, it's where college sports has gone and we are no longer resistant to it. We simply have to adapt and understand that it's part of the game.

EM_Puma wrote:

I find it hard to correlate this phenomenon to membership in the WCC. Maybe that wasn't your point.



Nevertheless, it's where college sports has gone and we are no longer resistant to it. We simply have to adapt and understand that it's part of the game.

I get that it's part of college hoops these days. But, 50% churn is insane.



I don't think this has to do with being in the WCC. If so, other teams in the WCC would be experiencing this level of churn and they aren't.



I think the high churn at BYU has more to do with BYU:



1) A team that isn't competing at a national level. Why stick around for another possible NIT run. Rose can't promise his players a NCAA tourney run if they stick around. Few gets guys to take redshirts so they can hang around for a tourney run. He tells guys to sit out a year, it will be good for them, and they believe it. Why, because Gonzaga goes on tourney runs. Gonzaga is a destination.

2) Gotta provide for a family. LDS culture pushes getting married and having babies as soon as you can. No sex before marriage accelerates the phenomenon. These guys are 22 year old married juniors with mouths to feed. Leaving early to get paid is inviting.

3) Rose seemed a bit apathetic to it all. A player shows up and says they aren't happy and he doesn't fight to convince them to stay. Course, he can't promise much.

4) Coaching quality. We've talked about it. Our players don't seem to develop. They come to BYU and peak their sophomore season. Why stick around if you know the coaching staff isn't going to get you where you want to be as a player

5) Basketball isn't a priority. We take 18 year olds who sole identities revolve around basketball and send them on missions. They focus on something completely different, come back, and are like, oh yeah... basketball. Why was this so important? I'm supposed to have babies.

The WCC did not keep us out of The tourney this year. It was our OOC. No wins against the good teams. Lots of wins against bad teams. Then 3 losses against decent teams.

You can't do much about injuries. I don't like those being part of the stats. That wasn't a willing choice to stop playing. And I don't think you can fault Bryant since he graduated. And there will always be players who leave to seek more PT. But Mika and Childs, those two leaving early for a non-NBA career, those hurt.

byufan4ever wrote:

You can't do much about injuries. I don't like those being part of the stats. That wasn't a willing choice to stop playing.

Yeah, but some of those were "injuries" more than actual injuries. Guys who could have continued to play at a high level but who were just done and leaned on injury history as a way to soften the quit a bit.



https://twitter.com/BYUstatsMAN/status/1111289844171313153

Some of these injury retirements though....

Alan Hamson - 0 minutes in career (1 season)

Jaren Sweeney - 0 minutes in career (1 season)



These other guys had legit injuries:

Stephen Rogers - Torn meniscus, only appeared in 8 games post-surgery, knee wasn't healing sufficiently, missed senior year

Braiden Shaw - post-mission played in 1 game in 2 seasons due to knee and ankle injuries/surgeries, missed senior year

Ian Harward - redshirt after mission, battled back injury and retired 1 year later due to continued back issues

Chris Collinsworth - Post mission played in 11 games over 2 years (knee surgery, ankle micro-fracture surgery)

Ryan Andrus - knee problems, 0 games post-mission



The truth is there are only so many spots on the roster and if you are chronically injured and not one of the top guys you lose your spot.



Transfers would be an interesting list to analyze because they are players who went on to play college ball somewhere. It has the highest number and the destination list would be interesting. I remember the one player who wanted law school but BYU Law School rules said no basketball so he transferred to a school back east. Hard to fault the basketball team for that. A bunch transferring due to playing time or counseled out of the program and that list would be interesting.

Fido wrote:

Some of these injury retirements though....

Alan Hamson - 0 minutes in career (1 season)

Jaren Sweeney - 0 minutes in career (1 season)



These other guys had legit injuries:

Stephen Rogers - Torn meniscus, only appeared in 8 games post-surgery, knee wasn't healing sufficiently, missed senior year

Braiden Shaw - post-mission played in 1 game in 2 seasons due to knee and ankle injuries/surgeries, missed senior year

Ian Harward - redshirt after mission, battled back injury and retired 1 year later due to continued back issues

Chris Collinsworth - Post mission played in 11 games over 2 years (knee surgery, ankle micro-fracture surgery)

Ryan Andrus - knee problems, 0 games post-mission



The truth is there are only so many spots on the roster and if you are chronically injured and not one of the top guys you lose your spot.



Transfers would be an interesting list to analyze because they are players who went on to play college ball somewhere. It has the highest number and the destination list would be interesting. I remember the one player who wanted law school but BYU Law School rules said no basketball so he transferred to a school back east. Hard to fault the basketball team for that. A bunch transferring due to playing time or counseled out of the program and that list would be interesting.

I've done that for you here!

https://www.cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23017

byufan4ever wrote:

I've done that for you here!

https://www.cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23017

HA! well done. I'll go digest that info.

Gunk wrote:



4) Coaching quality. We've talked about it. Our players don't seem to develop. They come to BYU and peak their sophomore season.

I was with you until this. The only player who I believe may have peaked their sophomore season could be Luke Worthington. Who else do you believe did this?

ABYUFAN wrote:

4) Coaching quality. We've talked about it. Our players don't seem to develop. They come to BYU and peak their sophomore season.

I was with you until this. The only player who I believe may have peaked their sophomore season could be Luke Worthington. Who else do you believe did this?

Emery. Seljaas. Nixon.



Cannon never improved. Two seasons and didn't get better.



Hardnett. Two seasons, didn't get better.

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:



4) Coaching quality. We've talked about it. Our players don't seem to develop. They come to BYU and peak their sophomore season.

I was with you until this. The only player who I believe may have peaked their sophomore season could be Luke Worthington. Who else do you believe did this?

Emery. Seljaas. Nixon.



Cannon never improved. Two seasons and didn't get better.



Hardnett. Two seasons, didn't get better.

Rose coached for what? 14 seasons? And you're claiming that three players peaked their sophomore seasons? And one of them shouldn't even be on the team because of a cheating scandal. Also of Seljass' three seasons an argument can be made between his freshman and his junior season being his best - but his sophomore season is without a doubt his worst season. He clearly didn't "peak" his sophomore season.



Like I said before, I agreed with pretty much everything else that you said, but I haven't seen a trend of players peaking their sophomore year.

ABYUFAN wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:

4) Coaching quality. We've talked about it. Our players don't seem to develop. They come to BYU and peak their sophomore season.

I was with you until this. The only player who I believe may have peaked their sophomore season could be Luke Worthington. Who else do you believe did this?

Emery. Seljaas. Nixon.



Cannon never improved. Two seasons and didn't get better.



Hardnett. Two seasons, didn't get better.

Rose coached for what? 14 seasons? And you're claiming that three players peaked their sophomore seasons? And one of them shouldn't even be on the team because of a cheating scandal. Also of Seljass' three seasons an argument can be made between his freshman and his junior season being his best - but his sophomore season is without a doubt his worst season. He clearly didn't "peak" his sophomore season.



Like I said before, I agreed with pretty much everything else that you said, but I haven't seen a trend of players peaking their sophomore year.

In deciding whether or not a coach should stick around, I think only the last three seasons or so are relevant.

Whether a player peaks their sophomore or any other season to me is more on the shoulders of the player than the coach. Sure, the coach has influence, but while it is pointed out that some of our players haven't developed significantly (Emery, Seljaas, Nixon, Cannon), the other side of the coin is that some have developed quite nicely (Childs, TJ Haws, Bryant, Mika, Austin, Collinsworth, Hartsock, to name a few).



I was listening to one of Rick Majerus's former players on a local radio station and they talked at how hard he drove his players and seemed to have the right balance to know how much and far he could drive them. Honestly, I don't believe he'd be as successful with that approach with today's millennials. We haven't seen near the number of transfers that we have had on our BB team over the last 3-4 years and I'm totally guessing, but I don't believe it was their personality conflict with Dave Rose or his coaches more than these individuals seeking better opportunities. I've never heard one single one of them claim they moved on because of a coach at BYU. Maybe I'm just in the dark, but I don't believe so.