Is Dave Rose Coasting Toward Retirement?

I had dinner Wednesday night with a couple of fellow BYU fans, and the subject of BYU basketball became a focal point of our conversation.The person sitting to my left was adamant that given the strength of BYU's recent schedules 20+ wins should have been expected. He added that Dave Rose is coasting toward retirement because players aren't being developed, and the recruiting pool is shrinking to just Utah and Idaho. I pointed out that the two most recent signees don't seem to be your typical recruits. He countered that one is a Chinese player with pedestrian stats and few offers, while the other is an unknown right now. Another dinner guest said we need to get used to it because the next head coach will be one of Rose's assistants, though he thinks Barret Peery is the most intriguing potential candidate.

Didn't we just sign a player from China and Brazil?

SpiffCoug wrote:

Didn't we just sign a player from China and Brazil?

They're attending school in California and Utah. The Chinese player is coached by Jeff Reinhart, former BYU assistant and Utah Valley head coach. The two players are mentioned in the original post.

I hope this isn't true. This season will tell us a lot.

Rose has not been the same coach since cancer.

Gunk wrote:

Rose has not been the same coach since cancer.

The cancer was in his third year (diagnosed 2009), so that doesn't really explain much. BYU went to the NCAA tournament five times after the cancer. What really hurt the program was the high attrition. Sure, some of those players maybe had a legitimate complaint, but I think a lot of it was also fear of the hype around the LP3 coming back.

I have been quite vocal about this. The past few seasons he has had arguably the best recruits BYU has ever had and yet we have not even sniffed the NCAA tournament. He was awesome early in his career and did more with less talent. You can argue that the move to the WCC has hurt us as Gonzaga has a strangle hold on it and there is no guarantee that more than one team from the WCC will get in. 20+ wins every year sounds great and gets you the title of winningest coach in school history. But many of this wins especially in recent years are what I call empty wins. They do absolutely nothing to build your tournament resume. Some of you may be fine with that. BUT I WANT TO BE IN THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. And we have not even been close the past few seasons.



Word is that the past few seasons Rose was only HC in name and that his assistants were literally doing everything. That's what I heard about Heath Schroyer. Rose doesn't draw up plays (although I do believe that I saw him doing that during the exhibition game) and many times last year Rose wasn't even involved in the time outs. Maybe these are just rumors as I have no inside info.



I love BYU basketball and we could certainly do worse than Rose. That's always the risk of change. I believe Hell will freeze over before BYU will fire Rose, but I would not be sad if he stepped down so we could get a change in there.

This has to be the year BYU makes the tournament. We have a veteran team coming back who played together last year and we have the non-conference schedule for it.

Let's fire someone widely regarded in the top 15 of coaches, perennially.



Who's with me guys?!?!

Brayden Green wrote:

Let's fire someone widely regarded in the top 15 of coaches, perennially.



Who's with me guys?!?!

According to which list?

Brayden Green wrote:

Let's fire someone widely regarded in the top 15 of coaches, perennially.



Who's with me guys?!?!

Yeah seriously. Provide a list where's he's "prerennially" regarded as top 15. Is he top 15 in getting his team into the NCAA tournament? Don't think so. I'm sure the ESPNU commentators love talking about all of his empty wins, but those are well, empty.



And let's not forget the peennial loss to at least one team ranked 200+! Top 15 in the country in my books!

byufan4ever wrote:

Let's fire someone widely regarded in the top 15 of coaches, perennially.



Who's with me guys?!?!

Yeah seriously. Provide a list where's he's "prerennially" regarded as top 15. Is he top 15 in getting his team into the NCAA tournament?

8 tournaments since he's been there. That said, he has to get them back in this year or I agree he should probably hang it up. Where I disagree with some of the more nervous fans is that I think this team gets in. This is the first one in the last 5/6 years that is bringing back most of the team from the previous year rather than 3-5 returning players and 8-9 new faces.

No NCAAs in the past three years. Most of his best recruits are gone without contributing much. The future doesn't look much brighter.



But I'll hope that this year surprises me.

jadesroom wrote:

Let's fire someone widely regarded in the top 15 of coaches, perennially.



Who's with me guys?!?!

According to which list?

Sigh, there are a multitude of threads on this. Rose is one of the most respected coaches in NCAAB.



The data is out there, you can look it up



Name me 15 better current head coaches.

Name 25 head coaches and you probably have 15 better.

Mars wrote:

Name 25 head coaches and you probably have 15 better.

So it should be easy then.

Brayden Green wrote:

Name 25 head coaches and you probably have 15 better.

So it should be easy then.

Definitely.



Rose is a top 50 coach, possibly even top 40. But he's isn't on any basketball pundit's list of top 15. Not only this, but I would say that he's top 50 based on his early years and not on the past 5. Third in the WCC, one of the worst defenses in the nation perennialy, failure to get into the NCAA tournament, lack of development of top recruits: These are not the signs of one of the top coaches in the nation.

Brayden Green wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:

Let's fire someone widely regarded in the top 15 of coaches, perennially.



Who's with me guys?!?!

According to which list?

Sigh, there are a multitude of threads on this. Rose is one of the most respected coaches in NCAAB.



The data is out there, you can look it up



Name me 15 better current head coaches.

Here you go. Ball is in your court to prove who is regarding Rose as a top 15 coach.



https://thebiglead.com/2018/04/10/top-college-basketball-coaches-rankings/



15. Archie Miller, Indiana

14. Chris Holtmann, Ohio State

13. Chris Mack, Louisville

12. Gregg Marshall, Wichita State

11. Mike Brey, Notre Dame

10. Sean Miller, Arizona

9. Tony Bennett, Virginia

8. John Beilein, Michigan

7. Mark Few, Gonzaga

6. Bill Self, Kansas

5. John Calipari, Kentucky

4. Roy Williams, North Carolina

3. Mike Krzyzewski, Duke

2. Tom Izzo, Michigan State

1. Jay Wright, Villanova

Since 2010, Wright has never had a recruiting class finish inside the top 20 in 247Sports’ rankings. In 2013 his class finished 36th, in 2014 it was 48th, in 2015 it was 29th, in 2016 it was 45th and in 2017 it was 28th. With those classes, from 2013 through this season, Villanova has a record of 165-21 (.887). The Wildcats have won four Big East regular season titles, three Big East Tournament titles, three Final Four appearances and two national titles.

Now, that is amazing!

Dave Rose doesn't show up on these lists:



(top 15 current head coaches) https://thebiglead.com/2018/04/10/top-college-basketball-coaches-rankings/



(top 25 current head coaches, plus 4 honorable mentions Larry K of Utah gets an honorable mention, and would be ranked 28th, if they numbered the HM) https://bustingbrackets.com/2018/05/07/ncaa-basketball-ranking-top-25-active-head-coaches/



(top 15 current head coaches) https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/ranking-the-top-15-college-basketball-coaches-right-now/ar-AAvIyNt



He doesn't even show up on this list of top 40 current college coaches at USA Today once again, Larry K though comes in at 28: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/college-basketball-coach-rankings-mike-krzyzewski-tom-izzo-john-calipari-roy-williams-bill-self



ESPN doesn't rank him as a top 50 current coach, though they give him a shout out as part of a group of 25 coaches who didn't make the top 50: http://m.espn.com/ncb/notebook?id=11170338&src=desktop&wjb



Barstool also doesn't put him in the top 50: https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/week-of-college-basketball-lists-50-best-coaches-in-the-country-this-year



So it seems to me like most of the basketball world tends to consider Dave Rose as a top 75 or top 100 coach, which isn't bad. Right around the edge of the top 1/3rd of coaches, but certainly not the great coach he once was.

Yeah, I wanted you guys to do the research. That was the point. Because anyone hunting for Rose's head clearly hasn't.



I'd put him 25-50.



Which is pretty damn good for a coach in the WCC, coaching for a school that underpays and doesn't allow it's players to have sex or drink, and the coaches have to be card carrying temple recommend carriers.



Rose will put up another 20+ wins this year, and you'll all still be here whining, mad because football sucks and you can't do anything about it.