Archived Topic

Why Tanner gets a pass from me against Cal

by snoscythe · 9/11/2018

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snoscythe
Tanner's teammates (and Grimes/KS with the 4th down calls) put him in a position where they had to take risks and push their luck to try to get back in the game:



https://twitter.com/CriddleBenjamin/status/1039227216595312641



https://twitter.com/CriddleBenjamin/status/1039206922837094400



https://twitter.com/CriddleBenjamin/status/1039217632681971712



https://twitter.com/CriddleBenjamin/status/1039217228430766081



https://twitter.com/CriddleBenjamin/status/1039267650851897344



If half those plays are made, BYU leads early and it's a completely different game in the second half.
F
frdbtr
All good points. Tanner is not the problem, he played well enough that if the players around him would have made plays, we would have either won or been in a better position to win at the end.
G
Gunk
Our WRs suck. Which is why I picked them as the worst group at the beginning of the season. Until we get receivers that can actually catch the ball, it doesn't matter who is playing behind center.
C
CrimsonCoug
That whiff by Hoge on Squally's catch is unfathomable. You're an O lineman! You literally have 1 job, and it's to BLOCK PEOPLE!



My thought is that if the rest of the team had played to the level of Mangum, we would have won this game.



And how much money would it take to get Guy Holliday back? Oh, that's right, we can't because Kalani hired his cousin/brother as the WR coach. #DontMixFamilyAndBusiness
C
CrimsonCoug
Two more thoughts:

1. I don't think it was all of the receivers. Gunner Romney played well (2 catches on 2 targets that I remember, for the highest ypc average). The TEs played well, especially MLP with 5 catches.

And Collie's getting a lot of grief, but I thought the defender just made a really good play in stripping the ball out of his hands. Like Criddle pointed out, it was Simon who missed the fairly routine comeback catch on 3rd & 5 that stopped that drive. Simon had at least 4 targets that I remember, and only hauled in 1 ball the whole game.



2. I think Michael Shelton got a little over-confident in his shake-and-bake on punt returns. He totaled -4 yards trying to do too much--and not just when we were down and he was maybe trying to spark the team. It was from the beginning. KO returns, too. There were several times where we should have called for the fair catch and started at the 25 instead of inside our own 15.
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frdbtr
CrimsonCoug wrote:

Two more thoughts:

1. I don't think it was all of the receivers. Gunner Romney played well (2 catches on 2 targets that I remember, for the highest ypc average). The TEs played well, especially MLP with 5 catches.

And Collie's getting a lot of grief, but I thought the defender just made a really good play in stripping the ball out of his hands. Like Criddle pointed out, it was Simon who missed the fairly routine comeback catch on 3rd & 5 that stopped that drive. Simon had at least 4 targets that I remember, and only hauled in 1 ball the whole game.



2. I think Michael Shelton got a little over-confident in his shake-and-bake on punt returns. He totaled -4 yards trying to do too much--and not just when we were down and he was maybe trying to spark the team. It was from the beginning. KO returns, too. There were several times where we should have called for the fair catch and started at the 25 instead of inside our own 15.


Go back and watch the replay on the Collie Drop. That catch was right on his hands and the ball just bounced off. The defender never touched it. That would have been an easier catch than the one he made in the AZ game.
K
KingCoug
Not sure why this needs to keep being said but, while Mangum isn't THE problem in the sense he's the main one or the only one, he is A problem. The guy is a senior but doesn't play like one. Don't want to blame him for the Cal game? Fine. But there's plenty of other examples to complain about.
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frdbtr
I remember back in 16 when everyone wanted Taysom benched for Tanner because tanner was obviously the better guy. Taysom had only won the job because he was the SR. Is it groundhog day or something. I feel like I am reliving the same year over and over and over again when it comes to where BYU fans put the blame. Like I said, who is going to block for Wilson, who is going to catch his passes. The biggest problem on the team is the offensive line and the receivers. That is why when we were rating the positions, I picked those as the most concerning every week.
M
Mars
frdbtr wrote:

I remember back in 16 when everyone wanted Taysom benched for Tanner because tanner was obviously the better guy. Taysom had only won the job because he was the SR. Is it groundhog day or something. I feel like I am reliving the same year over and over and over again when it comes to where BYU fans put the blame. Like I said, who is going to block for Wilson, who is going to catch his passes. The biggest problem on the team is the offensive line and the receivers. That is why when we were rating the positions, I picked those as the most concerning every week.

With Taysom hurt, that was probably also the right call.
F
frdbtr
Mars wrote:


I remember back in 16 when everyone wanted Taysom benched for Tanner because tanner was obviously the better guy. Taysom had only won the job because he was the SR. Is it groundhog day or something. I feel like I am reliving the same year over and over and over again when it comes to where BYU fans put the blame. Like I said, who is going to block for Wilson, who is going to catch his passes. The biggest problem on the team is the offensive line and the receivers. That is why when we were rating the positions, I picked those as the most concerning every week.

With Taysom hurt, that was probably also the right call.


Taysom didn't get hurt in 16 until the last game of the year....against Utah State.
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byufan4ever
Some BYU fans want the QB to struggle for 8 games before seeing the obvious that they need to be replaced or at least see what the next guy brings to the table...
F
frdbtr
byufan4ever wrote:

Some BYU fans want the QB to struggle for 8 games before seeing the obvious that they need to be replaced or at least see what the next guy brings to the table...


I call it how I see it. Back when Heaps was a freshman and wasy playing badly, I criticized him for what I saw and was constantly having to defend myself for it. In 11 when he got benched because of poor play the rest of BYU fandom realized I was right and his rep as a soft QB who couldn't play under pressure was confirmed. The reason I am currently sticking with Tanner over an unproven freshman is because I have seen how he can play with a decent set of receivers and good coaching.
M
Mars
frdbtr wrote:


frdbtr wrote:

I remember back in 16 when everyone wanted Taysom benched for Tanner because tanner was obviously the better guy. Taysom had only won the job because he was the SR. Is it groundhog day or something. I feel like I am reliving the same year over and over and over again when it comes to where BYU fans put the blame. Like I said, who is going to block for Wilson, who is going to catch his passes. The biggest problem on the team is the offensive line and the receivers. That is why when we were rating the positions, I picked those as the most concerning every week.

With Taysom hurt, that was probably also the right call.


Taysom didn't get hurt in 16 until the last game of the year....against Utah State.

Maybe I'm thinking Riley Nelson/Christian Stewart. BYU is caught in a time loop of bad QB play.



P.S. This thread title is a pun.
J
jvquarterback
If the receivers catch the ball and the coaches don't baffle us with Hoge, we're all celebrating at 2-0. Stick with Mangum. He's got a lot to fix but is most likely our best option. Wilson's time will come.



Oh, and Hoge should have been on the bench after missing that block.
G
Guest
Tanner played well enough to win the game in the first half and the receivers let him down.



In the second half, the receivers played marginally better, and Tanner played worse.
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BroncoBot
byufan4ever wrote:

Some BYU fans want the QB to struggle for 8 games before seeing the obvious that they need to be replaced or at least see what the next guy brings to the table...

The coaches see what the next guy brings to the table each practice. I'll let them decide, but I'd say stick with Mangum. I don't think he cost us the game against cal. It didn't seem that any aspect of BYU football was as ready against CAL as they were against AZ.
C
CrimsonCoug
frdbtr wrote:


Two more thoughts:

1. I don't think it was all of the receivers. Gunner Romney played well (2 catches on 2 targets that I remember, for the highest ypc average). The TEs played well, especially MLP with 5 catches.

And Collie's getting a lot of grief, but I thought the defender just made a really good play in stripping the ball out of his hands. Like Criddle pointed out, it was Simon who missed the fairly routine comeback catch on 3rd & 5 that stopped that drive. Simon had at least 4 targets that I remember, and only hauled in 1 ball the whole game.



2. I think Michael Shelton got a little over-confident in his shake-and-bake on punt returns. He totaled -4 yards trying to do too much--and not just when we were down and he was maybe trying to spark the team. It was from the beginning. KO returns, too. There were several times where we should have called for the fair catch and started at the 25 instead of inside our own 15.


Go back and watch the replay on the Collie Drop. That catch was right on his hands and the ball just bounced off. The defender never touched it. That would have been an easier catch than the one he made in the AZ game.


I took your advice; you were right. Neither defender touched it before Collie bobbled it away. Too bad. It was a great pass.



In fact, i watched the rest of the offensive series from that drive that started with 5 minutes left in the second quarter, and I have to say, Tanner played a decent game. From that point on, he only had 3 passes that weren't either drops or he had to throw the ball away to avoid a sack. (He also had 2 sacks, so there's that.) Of those 3 inaccurate throws, 2 were picked off--in no small part because he was pressing trying to make something happen because the receivers and the run game had put them in a hole. So he paid dearly, but 3 inaccurate throws over the period where the team struggled the most isn't bad. (There was also another throw to Simon, i believe, where it was obvious that there was a communication error--Simon curled in (and into traffic) when Tanner thought he was going to curl out. Not sure whose fault that was, but had Tanner thrown it on the route Simon ran, it likely would have been picked by the middle linebacker; so Tanner made the better read on where it should go).

There were at least 3 times that many passes dropped by receivers--WR, TE and RBs.



Tanner wasn't perfect, but he played well enough to win the game. The defense also played better than I remembered--with the exception of third down. They still had five 3-and-outs. Plus the INT and scoop and score.



Watching it again, I was most disappointed in the play of the O line in the run game. I remembered it being bad, but not that poor. I'd saddle them and the receiving with equal blame for the outcome.
F
frdbtr
CrimsonCoug wrote:


CrimsonCoug wrote:

Two more thoughts:

1. I don't think it was all of the receivers. Gunner Romney played well (2 catches on 2 targets that I remember, for the highest ypc average). The TEs played well, especially MLP with 5 catches.

And Collie's getting a lot of grief, but I thought the defender just made a really good play in stripping the ball out of his hands. Like Criddle pointed out, it was Simon who missed the fairly routine comeback catch on 3rd & 5 that stopped that drive. Simon had at least 4 targets that I remember, and only hauled in 1 ball the whole game.



2. I think Michael Shelton got a little over-confident in his shake-and-bake on punt returns. He totaled -4 yards trying to do too much--and not just when we were down and he was maybe trying to spark the team. It was from the beginning. KO returns, too. There were several times where we should have called for the fair catch and started at the 25 instead of inside our own 15.


Go back and watch the replay on the Collie Drop. That catch was right on his hands and the ball just bounced off. The defender never touched it. That would have been an easier catch than the one he made in the AZ game.


I took your advice; you were right. Neither defender touched it before Collie bobbled it away. Too bad. It was a great pass.



In fact, i watched the rest of the offensive series from that drive that started with 5 minutes left in the second quarter, and I have to say, Tanner played a decent game. From that point on, he only had 3 passes that weren't either drops or he had to throw the ball away to avoid a sack. (He also had 2 sacks, so there's that.) Of those 3 inaccurate throws, 2 were picked off--in no small part because he was pressing trying to make something happen because the receivers and the run game had put them in a hole. So he paid dearly, but 3 inaccurate throws over the period where the team struggled the most isn't bad. (There was also another throw to Simon, i believe, where it was obvious that there was a communication error--Simon curled in (and into traffic) when Tanner thought he was going to curl out. Not sure whose fault that was, but had Tanner thrown it on the route Simon ran, it likely would have been picked by the middle linebacker; so Tanner made the better read on where it should go).

There were at least 3 times that many passes dropped by receivers--WR, TE and RBs.



Tanner wasn't perfect, but he played well enough to win the game. The defense also played better than I remembered--with the exception of third down. They still had five 3-and-outs. Plus the INT and scoop and score.



Watching it again, I was most disappointed in the play of the O line in the run game. I remembered it being bad, but not that poor. I'd saddle them and the receiving with equal blame for the outcome.


Yep, Like I said in a previous thread; if the Oline plays against CAL like it did against AZ, we probably win the game. They were horrible. The receivers were par for the course, they have sucked since Hoffman left with a slight reprieve from sucking in 15 (though those receivers weren't as tough as I would like to see either). Without an Oline and receivers, none of our QB's are going to succeed.
B
Brayden Green
frdbtr wrote:


frdbtr wrote:


Two more thoughts:

1. I don't think it was all of the receivers. Gunner Romney played well (2 catches on 2 targets that I remember, for the highest ypc average). The TEs played well, especially MLP with 5 catches.

And Collie's getting a lot of grief, but I thought the defender just made a really good play in stripping the ball out of his hands. Like Criddle pointed out, it was Simon who missed the fairly routine comeback catch on 3rd & 5 that stopped that drive. Simon had at least 4 targets that I remember, and only hauled in 1 ball the whole game.



2. I think Michael Shelton got a little over-confident in his shake-and-bake on punt returns. He totaled -4 yards trying to do too much--and not just when we were down and he was maybe trying to spark the team. It was from the beginning. KO returns, too. There were several times where we should have called for the fair catch and started at the 25 instead of inside our own 15.


Go back and watch the replay on the Collie Drop. That catch was right on his hands and the ball just bounced off. The defender never touched it. That would have been an easier catch than the one he made in the AZ game.


I took your advice; you were right. Neither defender touched it before Collie bobbled it away. Too bad. It was a great pass.



In fact, i watched the rest of the offensive series from that drive that started with 5 minutes left in the second quarter, and I have to say, Tanner played a decent game. From that point on, he only had 3 passes that weren't either drops or he had to throw the ball away to avoid a sack. (He also had 2 sacks, so there's that.) Of those 3 inaccurate throws, 2 were picked off--in no small part because he was pressing trying to make something happen because the receivers and the run game had put them in a hole. So he paid dearly, but 3 inaccurate throws over the period where the team struggled the most isn't bad. (There was also another throw to Simon, i believe, where it was obvious that there was a communication error--Simon curled in (and into traffic) when Tanner thought he was going to curl out. Not sure whose fault that was, but had Tanner thrown it on the route Simon ran, it likely would have been picked by the middle linebacker; so Tanner made the better read on where it should go).

There were at least 3 times that many passes dropped by receivers--WR, TE and RBs.



Tanner wasn't perfect, but he played well enough to win the game. The defense also played better than I remembered--with the exception of third down. They still had five 3-and-outs. Plus the INT and scoop and score.



Watching it again, I was most disappointed in the play of the O line in the run game. I remembered it being bad, but not that poor. I'd saddle them and the receiving with equal blame for the outcome.


Yep, Like I said in a previous thread; if the Oline plays against CAL like it did against AZ, we probably win the game. They were horrible. The receivers were par for the course, they have sucked since Hoffman left with a slight reprieve from sucking in 15 (though those receivers weren't as tough as I would like to see either). Without an Oline and receivers, none of our QB's are going to succeed.


Well said, the both of you.



No sense in throwing a freshman to the wolves. If we make a change(though I don't blame Tanner) I'd be more interested in seeing Hodge. If our Oline can't block, and the receivers can't get open, maybe a scrambling qb creates offense. Tanner is clearly better than Hodge, but we might be in desperation mode if they can't fix some of their schemes.
S
snoscythe
Mars wrote:

P.S. This thread title is a pun.


Much like Tanner Mangum, I wondered if anyone would catch it.
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