Unga is Staying, Officially!

Unga has finally made it actually official. Here are his comments:

"I am staying in school and looking forward to play my final season of college football," the school's all-time leading rusher said in a statement. "I want to finish my college education, and I hope to play well and do my best as a senior to help our team."

Thanks to the Deseret News: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705358630/BYU-football-Its-official-Unga-will-return-for-senior-season.html

A great day for BYU footbal and I hope for Harvey. Now he will go down not only as one of the great BYU running backs of all time, but, if he can perform as we all think he can, one of BYU's football legends...

I know that part of his decision came from what he learned from the NFL, but I believe that it was also stromgly influenced by loyalty. That will go a long way toward making him a BYU legend. He is already a great hero to BYU fans.

I also think a large motivation in him staying is his desire to get a college degree, at least that is the impression I have gotten as I have read some of his comments. I am very impressed that he understands what is important in life. I also think he will be a great leader to the up and coming class.

It's great to know one way or the other finally on Harvey. I really think NFL guys are going to regret overlooking him. That said, I'm thrilled he's coming back. The offense isn't going to miss a beat next year. With all the young talent and a great OL and just enough experience. Imagine this lineup:



QB: Heaps/Nelson

RB: Unga, Te'o

RB: DiLuigi/Quezada

WR: Chambers, Hoffman/Matthews

WR: Jacobson, Hafoka

WR: Ashworth/Apo

TE: Wilson, Meuhlmann

LT: M. Reynolds

LG: Hansen, Speredon

C: H. Reynolds, R. Freeman

RG: T. Brown,

RT: N. Alleto, B. Brown

This is seriously a big deal for us. Experienced oline. arguable the best running back in byu history or close to it, along with an experienced receiving core and high level talent coming at qb. We just may reload very nicely in 2010.



our defense will probably be more athletic than last albeit not as experienced. Sheesh is it only january!!

jonnylingo wrote:
arguable the best running back in byu history or close to it,

I'd agree with the "close to it" part...but there's a guy named Staley that would be the best RB that we've ever had, injuries and all.



And a guy named Jenkins who I would put as a close second.



Harvey will be a workhorse next year. Look for 30 touches a game early in the year, maybe tailing off to 25. If he can stay healthy, he could put up 2000 yards. Can you imagine, a 2000 yard rusher at BYU?



Thanks for coming back, Harvey. Now just STAY HEALTHY!

33311710 wrote:

arguable the best running back in byu history or close to it,

I'd agree with the "close to it" part...but there's a guy named Staley that would be the best RB that we've ever had, injuries and all.



And a guy named Jenkins who I would put as a close second.



Harvey will be a workhorse next year. Look for 30 touches a game early in the year, maybe tailing off to 25. If he can stay healthy, he could put up 2000 yards. Can you imagine, a 2000 yard rusher at BYU?



Thanks for coming back, Harvey. Now just STAY HEALTHY!

At this point you are certainly entitled to your opinion, which is why I believe that he said "arguably" the best R.B. You say Staley is best, someone else will say Unga, ultimately that is a debate that cannot be clearly won by one side or the other. I, personally, have Unga as a better running back than Staley, and I say better based on the numbers actually produced. Staley was faster, but also was even more injury prone than Unga.

ABYUFAN wrote:
I, personally, have Unga as a better running back than Staley, and I say better based on the numbers actually produced. Staley was faster, but also was even more injury prone than Unga.

Ummmm....what numbers? It's fine if you say you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't then try and argue that your opinion is better because the numbers support you. Staley's numbers obliterate Unga's.



Harvey is a 4.96 career ypc back. Staley was 5.96--a full yard better. Even if you just compare junior seasons, Harvey was 5.23, but Staley was 8.07. Staley got 500 more yards, but on 12 fewer carries his junior season. Not to mention Luke caught twice as many passes for nearly three times the yardage.



Yeah, I'll admit that Harvey with a sore shoulder is better than Luke with a broken leg, but that's about all I'll give you. I guess the fact that you were probably still in Primary when Staley was playing clouds your memory. That kid was a one-in-a-million talent, the type I don't know if we'll ever see at BYU again.

Staley was best. He won the Doak Walker Award for a reason. Harvey is a great, solid back. Staley was a super freak of nature BYU rarely gets at the position. Obviously, Harvey's longevity is his best attribute. But Staley was just special. Same wit hJenkins. Just a special athlete at the position BYU rarely gets. But I would rate as follows:



1) Staley

2) Unga

3) Jenkins

4) Willis

5) Tahi/Vaikapuna

6) McDonald/Hall/Brown/Braithwaite



But that is just me.

6)

snoscythe wrote:

I, personally, have Unga as a better running back than Staley, and I say better based on the numbers actually produced. Staley was faster, but also was even more injury prone than Unga.

Ummmm....what numbers? It's fine if you say you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't then try and argue that your opinion is better because the numbers support you. Staley's numbers obliterate Unga's.



Harvey is a 4.96 career ypc back. Staley was 5.96--a full yard better. Even if you just compare junior seasons, Harvey was 5.23, but Staley was 8.07. Staley got 500 more yards, but on 12 fewer carries his junior season. Not to mention Luke caught twice as many passes for nearly three times the yardage.



Yeah, I'll admit that Harvey with a sore shoulder is better than Luke with a broken leg, but that's about all I'll give you. I guess the fact that you were probably still in Primary when Staley was playing clouds your memory. That kid was a one-in-a-million talent, the type I don't know if we'll ever see at BYU again.

Ditto. Were it not for injuries, he'd probably still be playing.

snoscythe wrote:

I, personally, have Unga as a better running back than Staley, and I say better based on the numbers actually produced. Staley was faster, but also was even more injury prone than Unga.

Ummmm....what numbers? It's fine if you say you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't then try and argue that your opinion is better because the numbers support you. Staley's numbers obliterate Unga's.



Harvey is a 4.96 career ypc back. Staley was 5.96--a full yard better. Even if you just compare junior seasons, Harvey was 5.23, but Staley was 8.07. Staley got 500 more yards, but on 12 fewer carries his junior season. Not to mention Luke caught twice as many passes for nearly three times the yardage.



Yeah, I'll admit that Harvey with a sore shoulder is better than Luke with a broken leg, but that's about all I'll give you. I guess the fact that you were probably still in Primary when Staley was playing clouds your memory. That kid was a one-in-a-million talent, the type I don't know if we'll ever see at BYU again.

OK I'll be a bit more clear.



Staley/ Unga Year 1



Staley 92 rushes 432 yards 10 TDs

Unga 244 rushes 1227 yards 13 TDs



Staley I believe was 3rd team freshman All-American. Unga I believe was 1st team. Clearly Unga was more beneficial to the Cougs his “year one” than Staley was during his





“Year One” goes to Unga





Year 2



Staley 130 carries 479 yards 7 touchdowns

Unga 240 caries 1132 yards 11 tds



Numbers wise, “Year 2” also goes to Unga (and again it’s not even that close)





Year 3



Staley (couldn't easily find the number of caries) 1,596 yards 24 touchdowns

Unga 208 caries 1087 yards 11 touchdowns





Year three to Staley in a landslide.





1999 Staley's "year one" we lost to Utah and had 20 yard rushing in that game. Clearly We could have really used the 2001 Staley then. We also lost our bowl game to Marshall and Staley was (you guessed it) injured he had 7 yards on 3 rushes.



2007, Unga's "year one" we had a HUGE WIN over Utah where he gained 144 yards and a dramatic game winning touchdown (we all know the picture) and we WON our Bowl game over UCLA (although Unga was a non-factor)



I give Unga a nod in “year one” big game performance





In 2000, Staley's "year 2" We Beat Utah with Staley accounting for 17 rushes for 30 yards and had no Bowl game. In

2008, Unga's "year 2" we lost to Utah, Unga had 15 rushes 116 yards 2 touchdowns and he could have won the game for the Cougars had Anae not forgotten who he was. In the bowl game Unga had 17 rushes for 71 yards and a TD.



So even though we beat Utah in Staley's "year 2," Unga still was unquestionably bigger in big games than was Staley was. I'll give Staley credit for the win over Utah, and call their big game credit for "year two" a push.





2001 Staley's "year 3" when looking at the big game performance - We'll give him credit for BYU's dramatic win over Utah, we don't need to go into details. But, Unga, for his year 3, he also had a dramatic win over Utah and also played a big role in that. We'll call that a push too. "Year 3" bowl games... Staley was injured, Unga played and 24 rushes for 71 yards. BYU won Unga’s year 3 Bowl…. We did not win our bowl game in Staley's year 3. I'm being generous to give Staley a push for big games in "year three" and that is just because of the dramatic fashion of the Utah win.







SO …Staley’s numbers are a huge plus in year 3, and we have a push for big game performance.





Accordingly, as of now, I have Unga's numbers better than Staley's numbers in 2 out of 3 years. And they preformed about equal 2 out of the 3 years worth of big games. However, in the third year of big games Harvey clearly has had a much better performance.



Now we get to year 4 and Staley gave us nothing for his year 4. Harvey, unless I am mistaken, and barring anything unforeseen, will own every meaningful rushing record at BYU. That is why I have him at number 1.



Again, I can see why people have Staley at number one. Tallent wise he was off the charts. But when you look at the whole body of work for each back’s whole career, and not just one year, I’m taking Harvey with the idea that with Harvey beating Staley performance-wise in 3 out of 4 years, and also having better big games in 3 out of 4 years, Unga is the better back.



P.S. I had a child in primary during the Staley years maybe your fond memories of Staley come from the fact that he was the featured back while you were there. My featured back was Jamal Willis.







** EDIT*** said more succinctly, your measure of the greatest back at BYU were a marathon, It'd go to Unga by a landslide, if it were a sprint, then it's go to Staley by an even greater margin.

Lawboy wrote:
Staley was best. He won the Doak Walker Award for a reason. Harvey is a great, solid back. Staley was a super freak of nature BYU rarely gets at the position. Obviously, Harvey's longevity is his best attribute. But Staley was just special. Same wit hJenkins. Just a special athlete at the position BYU rarely gets. But I would rate as follows:



1) Staley

2) Unga

3) Jenkins

4) Willis

5) Tahi/Vaikapuna

6) McDonald/Hall/Brown/Braithwaite



But that is just me.

6)

I don't know how you can justify Tahi/Vakapuna ahead of Curtis Brown. Mine would look like:



1) Unga

2) Staley

3) Brown

4) Willis

5) Jenkins



My formula would include actual production as well as ability/fan-excitement-provider

gmj81 wrote:

Staley was best. He won the Doak Walker Award for a reason. Harvey is a great, solid back. Staley was a super freak of nature BYU rarely gets at the position. Obviously, Harvey's longevity is his best attribute. But Staley was just special. Same wit hJenkins. Just a special athlete at the position BYU rarely gets. But I would rate as follows:



1) Staley

2) Unga

3) Jenkins

4) Willis

5) Tahi/Vaikapuna

6) McDonald/Hall/Brown/Braithwaite



But that is just me.

6)

I don't know how you can justify Tahi/Vakapuna ahead of Curtis Brown. Mine would look like:



1) Unga

2) Staley

3) Brown

4) Willis

5) Jenkins



My formula would include actual production as well as ability/fan-excitement-provider

I would have a list that looks just like that...

ABYUFAN wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:
I, personally, have Unga as a better running back than Staley, and I say better based on the numbers actually produced. Staley was faster, but also was even more injury prone than Unga.

Ummmm....what numbers? It's fine if you say you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't then try and argue that your opinion is better because the numbers support you. Staley's numbers obliterate Unga's.



Harvey is a 4.96 career ypc back. Staley was 5.96--a full yard better. Even if you just compare junior seasons, Harvey was 5.23, but Staley was 8.07. Staley got 500 more yards, but on 12 fewer carries his junior season. Not to mention Luke caught twice as many passes for nearly three times the yardage.



Yeah, I'll admit that Harvey with a sore shoulder is better than Luke with a broken leg, but that's about all I'll give you. I guess the fact that you were probably still in Primary when Staley was playing clouds your memory. That kid was a one-in-a-million talent, the type I don't know if we'll ever see at BYU again.

OK I'll be a bit more clear.



Staley/ Unga Year 1



Staley 92 rushes 432 yards 10 TDs

Unga 244 rushes 1227 yards 13 TDs



Staley I believe was 3rd team freshman All-American. Unga I believe was 1st team. Clearly Unga was more beneficial to the Cougs his “year one” than Staley was during his





“Year One” goes to Unga

First, if you are going to knock Luke for being injury prone, remember that this "year one" was actually Harvey's year two--after a season ending injury in his true first year on the field.



Back to the first full year: so, because Fui Vakapuna gets injured and Harvey is bumped up in the line-up, he must've been better than a freshman Luke Staley that was playing injured, splitting snaps with a future NFL-er, and yet managed to parlay those 1/3 snaps into national recognition nonetheless? How do you define "beneficial"? Staley had a lower ypc, but he also had nearly as many touchdowns with about 1/3 of the carries.

Year 2



Staley 130 carries 479 yards 7 touchdowns

Unga 240 caries 1132 yards 11 tds



Numbers wise, “Year 2” also goes to Unga (and again it’s not even that close)

Yeah, those touchdown numbers aren't even close, again with Luke playing injured.

Year 3



Staley (couldn't easily find the number of caries) 1,596 yards 24 touchdowns

Unga 208 caries 1087 yards 11 touchdowns





Year three to Staley in a landslide.

196 carries. Finally, a year where Staley was healthy for all but the last two games, which conveniently offset the games in which Harvey was limited or did not play.

1999 Staley's "year one" we lost to Utah and had 20 yard rushing in that game. Clearly We could have really used the 2001 Staley then. We also lost our bowl game to Marshall and Staley was (you guessed it) injured he had 7 yards on 3 rushes.



2007, Unga's "year one" we had a HUGE WIN over Utah where he gained 144 yards and a dramatic game winning touchdown (we all know the picture) and we WON our Bowl game over UCLA (although Unga was a non-factor)



I give Unga a nod in “year one” big game performance

Luke was injured and didn't play against Utah. Shouldn't have played against Marshall, but he gave it a shot anyway, figuring he wasn't saving himself for another game.

In 2000, Staley's "year 2" We Beat Utah with Staley accounting for 17 rushes for 30 yards and had no Bowl game. In

2008, Unga's "year 2" we lost to Utah, Unga had 15 rushes 116 yards 2 touchdowns and he could have won the game for the Cougars had Anae not forgotten who he was. In the bowl game Unga had 17 rushes for 71 yards and a TD.



So even though we beat Utah in Staley's "year 2," Unga still was unquestionably bigger in big games than was Staley was. I'll give Staley credit for the win over Utah, and call their big game credit for "year two" a push.

Again, a year in which Staley was hampered by injuries.

2001 Staley's "year 3" when looking at the big game performance - We'll give him credit for BYU's dramatic win over Utah, we don't need to go into details. But, Unga, for his year 3, he also had a dramatic win over Utah and also played a big role in that. We'll call that a push too. "Year 3" bowl games... Staley was injured, Unga played and 24 rushes for 71 yards. BYU won Unga’s year 3 Bowl…. We did not win our bowl game in Staley's year 3. I'm being generous to give Staley a push for big games in "year three" and that is just because of the dramatic fashion of the Utah win.







SO …Staley’s numbers are a huge plus in year 3, and we have a push for big game performance.





Accordingly, as of now, I have Unga's numbers better than Staley's numbers in 2 out of 3 years. And they preformed about equal 2 out of the 3 years worth of big games. However, in the third year of big games Harvey clearly has had a much better performance.



Now we get to year 4 and Staley gave us nothing for his year 4. Harvey, unless I am mistaken, and barring anything unforeseen, will own every meaningful rushing record at BYU. That is why I have him at number 1.



Again, I can see why people have Staley at number one. Tallent wise he was off the charts. But when you look at the whole body of work for each back’s whole career, and not just one year, I’m taking Harvey with the idea that with Harvey beating Staley performance-wise in 3 out of 4 years, and also having better big games in 3 out of 4 years, Unga is the better back.

At this point it becomes obvious that we are evaluating different things. I am arguing that Staley was the better back, and nothing you have pulled up has shown otherwise. You have just demonstrated that Staley was injury plagued. What you seem to be arguing is that Unga was more valuable because he didn't get injured as frequently as Staley.....that becomes obvious when you refer to the phantom 4th year as a factor in your opinion---what does that have to do with which back is/was better? Nothing.

P.S. I had a child in primary during the Staley years maybe your fond memories of Staley come from the fact that he was the featured back while you were there. My featured back was Jamal Willis.

I apologize for the confusion, I mixed you up with another "all-caps" poster whom I know to have been in primary at the time. My bad.

** EDIT*** said more succinctly, your measure of the greatest back at BYU were a marathon, It'd go to Unga by a landslide, if it were a sprint, then it's go to Staley by an even greater margin.

My measure is simply who was the best. When healthy, there's simply no comparison between the two in my mind. If you want to ignore injuries or the different depth-chart situations, feel free. It's like saying Frank Gore is a better back than Bo Jackson because FG has more consistent over a longer career than Bo Jackson's flash in the pan. You just neglect to mention that Bo was putting up his numbers as second-string behind Marcus Allen and that he too was a bit injury prone, while Gore got drafted into a situation that needed a runningback right away.



At the end of the day, I think we are talking different things. Unga has done more for BYU, but Staley was the better back.

sno I don't need you to agree with me. I'm fine with some having the idea that Staley was BYU's best runingback . As we see... it probably comes down to what criteria is used. That's why I origonaly said that it could be argued that Unga was. You are absolutely correct in saying that much of what happens on the team comes down to roster position and other factors. For example I wonder who we would call the better QB Doman or Hall?



Again... if you define "best" as most tallented. yes it's Staley. If you define Best as "done most for the team" I'm going Unga.... but I won't bust your chops if you go Staley



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WOW, I am shocked he is staying, way to go Harvey.



With Unga as our RB, I see us going 10+ wins next year =D

ABYUFAN wrote:
If you define "best" as most tallented. yes it's Staley. If you define Best as "done most for the team" I'm going Unga.

Agreed. I think we were just working with different definitions of "best"

BTW... my sources indicate that the real reason that Unga is staying is because he wants to learn some of Darrell Macks "moves"



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snoscythe wrote:

If you define "best" as most tallented. yes it's Staley. If you define Best as "done most for the team" I'm going Unga.

Agreed. I think we were just working with different definitions of "best"

How 'bout we use this definition:



"My daddy's running back can beat up your daddy's running back."