We fired Detmer for THIS?

Last year: weak receivers that drop balls constantly and can't get off bump coverage, terrible Oline, bad QB play.



Stop the run with 7 in the box, stop BYU.



This year: weak receivers that drop balls constantly and can't get off bump coverage, terrible Oline, bad QB play.



Stop the run, stop BYU.



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A lot of you will blame Mangum, but I was there and there was little to no separation most of the game from the wideouts.



The hurry up needs to stop. It literally cost us a TD on a 3 and 1 where they ran to the line and snapped to try and get the defense off guard and we had a wideouts line up with no defender within 20 yards of him.



Whoever is in charge of getting the playcall in from the sideline needs to start working on their resume. For the second game in a row we burned 2 timeouts in the first quarter on getting plays in. (For all the crap I gave Anae for never switching from a game plan, that kind of thing never happened.)



At least Detmer was working on a 2 or 3 TE Pro style offense with limited WR looks (until all the TEs got injured). . Anyone not named Romney or Collie on the WR squad should hang their pads up for the rest of the year and use those brick hands to serve Gatorade to the defense.

Collie had the worst drop.

That was my thought. Collie’s drop was huge. Simon could lose his spot after multiple drops. The freshmen are out playing the upper class men. I can’t wait for some of these guys to move on since they are inconsistent and unreliable.

Mars wrote:

Collie had the worst drop.

That drop felt like a game changer. And Micah dropped a huge third down pass.

I agree the Collie drop was huge. But he had some good catches last week and last night. He's basically still "field worthy" for me, but judging our WR core, that could change.



So Roderick as "passing game co-ordinator" isn't really working out right now. The wideouts are terrible and can't get open, and Tanner can't even reliably throw to spots.



We should have gone to a 3 TE protect scheme, powered the running game over Cal, and let Romney/Collie act as a deep threat to catch the safeties sleeping. It's literally our only hope against 70% of the teams we play this year.



Detmer saw it and was planning for it. You put the best players on the field, and the wideouts can't lace our TEs tennis shoes, and extra blocking wouldn't hurt our Oline.



I expected the Oline to be MUCH better than this, since we went out and basically got an expensive Oline coach and gave him OC duties.

Bushman got slower. Marriage is bad.

Mars wrote:

Bushman got slower. Marriage is bad.

Yeah, just ask my wife ;) :lol:

No. We scapegoated Detmer (who still deserved to be fired) for this.



The ENTIRE coaching staff should have been fired after last year. Better asked:



We failed to fire Sitake for THIS?

SpiffCoug wrote:

No. We scapegoated Detmer (who still deserved to be fired) for this.



The ENTIRE coaching staff should have been fired after last year. Better asked:



We failed to fire Sitake for THIS?

I agree, Sitake should have been fired. He fired half of who should have been fired if he were going to keep his job. The defense still can't get off the field on 3rd down. If they hadn't gotten those 2 turnovers in the 3rd quarter we wouldn't even had the opportunity to win at the end. I give credit for forcing the turnovers but a defense HAS to get off the field on 3rd down and this is the 3rd year in a row where our Tuiaki led defense can't do it.

frdbtr wrote:

No. We scapegoated Detmer (who still deserved to be fired) for this.



The ENTIRE coaching staff should have been fired after last year. Better asked:



We failed to fire Sitake for THIS?

I agree, Sitake should have been fired. He fired half of who should have been fired if he were going to keep his job. The defense still can't get off the field on 3rd down. If they hadn't gotten those 2 turnovers in the 3rd quarter we wouldn't even had the opportunity to win at the end. I give credit for forcing the turnovers but a defense HAS to get off the field on 3rd down and this is the 3rd year in a row where our Tuiaki led defense can't do it.

I've been critical of Tuiaki's defense from the beginning. The front 4 get zero push. They have no pass rush, and so opposing QB's can sit in the pocket for days waiting for plays to develop. We make the most average QB's look like Heisman winners. And on top of that, it would seem that Tuiaki can't call a blitz to save his life. It's the most infuriatingly vanilla defense I've ever seen.

SpiffCoug wrote:

No. We scapegoated Detmer (who still deserved to be fired) for this.



The ENTIRE coaching staff should have been fired after last year. Better asked:



We failed to fire Sitake for THIS?

Well said!

Maybe we can get Halliday back from the U?

We've kept some head scratchers, and I've been disappointed by some that BYU has let go.

Detmer was fired because his offense was the worst in decades. The game against Arizona was better than just about any game I recall from 2017. And Detmer wasn't Sitake's pick. So you can't fire Sitake when the OC he didn't pick doesn't pan out. Don't act like there was no cause against Detmer.

All true, Fido. This team is definitely better than last year's. This offense is way better than Detmer's last year.

I think it's just frustrating to know that while we are improved, we're still not "back." Cal was not a good team, and under the last head coach we would have beat a team like that at home.



So I think the better question, now that Sitake does have everyone under his own picking, is "We let Bronco walk out the door for THIS?"

Being "not back" yet certainly is frustrating. The most frustrating thing to me is how it took a whole season before we were "gone" (Bronco's culture still being present, Taysom + Jamaal covering for a ton of deficiencies, however you believe 2016 happened), and that the cultural change that needs to happen will take time.



Bronco had a big time culture change he needed to make in 2005. His advantage was that he knew it, and started immediately. Still, we scored a whopping 3 points in our first game, and got blown out by SDSU on the road. We finished 6-5, which isn't great, but it got us a bowl against Marshawn Lynch and Desean Jackson, and we were a tipped pass from sending that thing into OT (or, more likely, attempting and failing a 2pt to win it :D). The point is, it took a whole season to right the ship and realize the potential.



My frustration is that it seems like there's bigger problems than who is calling the plays or what offense or defense we're running, and they aren't being addressed. What I hear and read suggests that it goes further, to things like hard work and discipline, and that's not being fixed yet. Assuming Sitake knows what needs fixing and how to do it, I'd still expect about a season before that pays off in on the field production and wins. But if he doesn't? We'll suck and scapegoat the staff (kinda like Utah's done with their OCs) every year until he's gone, and then hope and pray we can get someone who can redo what Bronco did.



Finally, on Detmer....the offense was objectively awful, even at times during the honeymoon season in 2016 (see the Boise St game, for example). But because of what's going on now, I don't know if that's because of team culture issues, the inexperience and underqualification of the staff across the board, bad luck with the schedule, the defense not helping much either, a bad offensive scheme for our personnel, bad play calling, or whatever. I do know that some of the concepts that I saw on the field in 2016 had me excited for the future, and then it all fell apart. If Ty is successful as an OC or HC at the college level somewhere else, I'm going to be pissed that we chose the wrong time and wrong HC under which to hire him and scapegoat him.



The only way to consistently win against the best teams in the nation at BYU, with our inherent recruiting disadvantages, is to be innovative and be strategically a step ahead, and to be fanatical and precise about how we execute those strategies. It's not recruiting the best athletes, or having fun with your buddies (players or coaches). Lavell's offenses did that for us, until the rest of the world caught up. Bronco's defenses did that for us. I don't know if Detmer would have been that innovative guy for us. I hoped he would have been. I don't know if Grimes is, either, but I hope so. But if we want to be "back", we need:

1) To take full advantage of the type of athletes we can get and the culture that exists at BYU. Hard work, discipline, and execution can be coached, and a team loaded with RMs should get that more easily than anywhere except maybe the service academies.

2) To have innovative schemes on both sides of the ball, to cover for the athletic deficiencies we will always have.

Fido wrote:

Detmer was fired because his offense was the worst in decades. The game against Arizona was better than just about any game I recall from 2017. And Detmer wasn't Sitake's pick. So you can't fire Sitake when the OC he didn't pick doesn't pan out. Don't act like there was no cause against Detmer.

I saw nothing against Cal that Detmer didn't or couldn't do, and he had a better scheme in place. After an off-season of re-writing the offense, I'm not sure it was worth it.



Watch Wisconsin beat us by about 50, and that's what Ty wanted to create here. He just didn't have the personnel a year ago (injuries, bad schemes by previous staff affecting recruiting)

redneckjedi wrote:
But if we want to be "back", we need:

1) To take full advantage of the type of athletes we can get and the culture that exists at BYU. Hard work, discipline, and execution can be coached, and a team loaded with RMs should get that more easily than anywhere except maybe the service academies.

2) To have innovative schemes on both sides of the ball, to cover for the athletic deficiencies we will always have.

This is what we've ALWAYS needed. We don't have the talent depth of many P5 teams so the only way we consistently compete is with superior schemes by the coaches and superior execution by the players.



A program who seems to have mastered this concept is Boise State. Of course, they benefit from a third factor I'm always on my soapbox about - scheduling. You look at their schedule over the past 10-15 years and you'll see they don't play more than one or two P5 teams a year (not counting a bowl game).



Meanwhile here we are trying to play four, five, or six P5 teams a year. With a head coach who apparently thinks it's ok to take a week off because we beat a crappy Arizona team, a coaching staff who often seems to have no answers, and players who miss their assignments left and right.

KingCoug wrote:

But if we want to be "back", we need:

1) To take full advantage of the type of athletes we can get and the culture that exists at BYU. Hard work, discipline, and execution can be coached, and a team loaded with RMs should get that more easily than anywhere except maybe the service academies.

2) To have innovative schemes on both sides of the ball, to cover for the athletic deficiencies we will always have.

This is what we've ALWAYS needed. We don't have the talent depth of many P5 teams so the only way we consistently compete is with superior schemes by the coaches and superior execution by the players.



A program who seems to have mastered this concept is Boise State. Of course, they benefit from a third factor I'm always on my soapbox about - scheduling. You look at their schedule over the past 10-15 years and you'll see they don't play more than one or two P5 teams a year (not counting a bowl game).



Meanwhile here we are trying to play four, five, or six P5 teams a year. With a head coach who apparently thinks it's ok to take a week off because we beat a crappy Arizona team, a coaching staff who often seems to have no answers, and players who miss their assignments left and right.

I agree. Boise State has pretty good recruiting because they have winning seasons every year but they don't have near the recruits the Alabamas and Ohio States have, yet they beat big schools often enough. We did the same thing under Coach Edwards. I would like to see us go back to that. We don't have the money and I don't think the general authorities will give the athletic programs the money to come close to the schools paying coaches millions.

nuk13 wrote:

redneckjedi wrote:
But if we want to be "back", we need:

1) To take full advantage of the type of athletes we can get and the culture that exists at BYU. Hard work, discipline, and execution can be coached, and a team loaded with RMs should get that more easily than anywhere except maybe the service academies.

2) To have innovative schemes on both sides of the ball, to cover for the athletic deficiencies we will always have.

This is what we've ALWAYS needed. We don't have the talent depth of many P5 teams so the only way we consistently compete is with superior schemes by the coaches and superior execution by the players.



A program who seems to have mastered this concept is Boise State. Of course, they benefit from a third factor I'm always on my soapbox about - scheduling. You look at their schedule over the past 10-15 years and you'll see they don't play more than one or two P5 teams a year (not counting a bowl game).



Meanwhile here we are trying to play four, five, or six P5 teams a year. With a head coach who apparently thinks it's ok to take a week off because we beat a crappy Arizona team, a coaching staff who often seems to have no answers, and players who miss their assignments left and right.

I agree. Boise State has pretty good recruiting because they have winning seasons every year but they don't have near the recruits the Alabamas and Ohio States have, yet they beat big schools often enough. We did the same thing under Coach Edwards. I would like to see us go back to that. We don't have the money and I don't think the general authorities will give the athletic programs the money to come close to the schools paying coaches millions.

One thing to look at with Boise State is there admission standards or lack there of. They get a lot of athletes who would go to a PAC12 school but don't academically qualify.