Cougars a bubble team?!

Lunardi said today the Cougars are a bubble team, no, not for the NCAA tournament, for the NIT. Needing to win 2 games to be a solid shot at making it. Can the Cougars do it?

Two games? I don't know.



We'll have a tough time against SD and if we win that game we'll likely play SMC. Two wins will be tough.



SMC will play the winner of Pepperdine vs Santa Clara. Oddly enough, Pepperdine did better against SMC than Santa Clara. So, we should all become Pepperdine fans this weekend.

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

byufan4ever wrote:

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

I'm not following you. Rose has done what no other BYU basketball coach has done ever - in a good way. And now you think we'll automatically get a better one if we fire him? Based on what? Unless you're gonna apply for the position and guarantee that you'd automatically be better than the best coach that BYU has ever had, I'd be hesitant to call for that guy's head.



And on topic - That's silly talk. BYU will host an NIT game and we all know it. Few schools will get the fans out to a home game in round one like BYU will. ANd the NIT is all about attendance and fun games. BYU is a lock



I've said it before - if we had Emery and Mika back this year we'd certainly have won more games we might have even won the WCC - and it's hard to hang those departures on the coaching staff.

ABYUFAN wrote:

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

I'm not following you. Rose has done what no other BYU basketball coach has done ever - in a good way. And now you think we'll automatically get a better one if we fire him? Based on what? Unless you're gonna apply for the position and guarantee that you'd automatically be better than the best coach that BYU has ever had, I'd be hesitant to call for that guy's head.



And on topic - That's silly talk. BYU will host an NIT game and we all know it. Few schools will get the fans out to a home game in round one like BYU will. ANd the NIT is all about attendance and fun games. BYU is a lock



I've said it before - if we had Emery and Mika back this year we'd certainly have won more games we might have even won the WCC - and it's hard to hang those departures on the coaching staff.

We could certainly do worse than Rose. Rose helped rebuild the BYU basketball team and that's great. But he's failed to take it to the next level and we've actually been getting worse the past few years even though the talent level is getting better. I understand that fans are emotional and there is an emotional tie to Rose for what he has done in the PAST. I'm looking to the FUTURE. I may be cold hearted. But I view our head coaches as CEOs (or at least VPs) of a business and sometimes you have to make what seem like cold decisions to get the right people on the bus. I don't hate Rose. I'm not unappreciative of what he's done for us. But in a BUSINESS world no one gets a free pass. I don't know how anyone can think that the team has not under performed both this year and last year. I don't expect us to be Duke but I expect us to be better than we have been. Continual losses to bad RPI teams. And a LARGE majority of our awesome 20+ wins each season are against bad RPI teams. I guess I'm not blue goggled but I just can't sing All Is Well about this basketball team.



And who knows, maybe Emery and Mika not coming back is on the coaches? Could the coaches have helped prevent the Emery scandal? Maybe not? Maybe Mika just really wanted to make a few bucks this year so he was leaving no matter what. But if we were an NCAA tournament team with a good coaching staff I think he would have been back. And we did have both Emery and Mika last year and where did that get us with this coaching staff?

I wouldn't necessarily bank on BYU hosting a first round NIT match.



Of 6 projections only 3 have BYU even making the NIT, and those that do all have them 6th or 7th seed, which would not host.



Of course, it is possible that the NIT still allows the Cougars to host a game, but it would be a bit of a sham.

hawkwing wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily bank on BYU hosting a first round NIT match.



Of 6 projections only 3 have BYU even making the NIT, and those that do all have them 6th or 7th seed, which would not host.



Of course, it is possible that the NIT still allows the Cougars to host a game, but it would be a bit of a sham.

That was what was surprising to me. I thought the NIT was mainly focused on letting the teams that draw fans host many of the home games. It's hard to see anyone on the projected NIT list that would do better. That's one attribute BYU can pimp.



Honestly though, if we can't beat San Diego 2 of 3 games this season, then we don't deserve to go anywhere.

If maximizing attendance is really one of the main criteria used to seed NIT teams, then 20 win BYU team should absolutely be a lock to host a game.



If we lose San Diego AND miss out on the NIT...wow.



Remember when we were so sure that the talent (potential talent I should say) we had coming into the program would get us at least one deep NCAA tourney run in the next 2-4 years? That sure seems like a LONG time ago. I suppose we still have 2 more seasons in that time frame, but right now, how many of us are seeing a Sweet 16 in the near future?



I'm not calling for a new HC yet. I'd like to think I'm more patient than most, but if we don't get the NCAA tournament at least once with Childs, Bryant, Haws, I'm not sure how Dave Rose's job could survive that.

The mental wheels fell off this team after the Pacific loss. I think they kind of knew at that point there was little to no hope for an at-large bid. I am hoping they show up in force this weekend.



I'm disappointed. We were solid ball at the start of the season.



If there was a guaranteed better coach, I'd consider making a change, but honestly I don't think there is. Many teams would love to have Rose as a coach.



I will say this. I like this team. I like watching them play. Have there been some frustrating games? Yeah. But largely they play well together. We aren't watching guys chuck three pointers five seconds into the shot clock well beyond the three point line. The ball moves across the court; it doesn't go to one place and die. There's effort on defense where there hasn't been half a decade. In short, we're seeing better ball and that's due to coaching.

Losing 5 of 10 stinks.

We miss Mika. Yoeli is a 4 really, yes? And Emery > Hardnet yes?

BoiseBYU wrote:

We miss Mika. Yoeli is a 4 really, yes? And Emery > Hardnet yes?

I would really have liked to see a lineup of Hardnet, Emery, Bryant, Childs and Mika with Haws as 6th man.

ABYUFAN wrote:

We miss Mika. Yoeli is a 4 really, yes? And Emery > Hardnet yes?

I would really have liked to see a lineup of Hardnet, Emery, Bryant, Childs and Mika with Haws as 6th man.

This illustrates very clearly why the yearly upheaval of the roster has hurt the program. I hope we can hold it together for next year. If so, I think we'll actually be pretty good and get back to the real tournament. Our fanbase in large part has forgotten that a large group of players gaining experience together year after year actually makes a team better, since we haven't seen that in the program since the Jimmer years. That's what St. Mary's does. Current example: only FOUR players on this year's team played last year. This has been the usual situation every year since Jimmer left. That's the reason we make the NIT now instead of the NCAA. Still, on most teams this would mean losing records. IMO, Rose is good enough to still turn these into 20 win seasons. But seriously, we can't have the team blow up again this year. If he can't hold it together I'm possibly ready to maybe have him move on.

Adding to my last post, if we've now entered an era where BYU basketball players start seeing leaving early to play minor league basketball as better than finishing their eligibility at BYU first before going to do that, then we're in trouble in the long run, and it won't matter who is coaching. We don't have the available talent pool to lose all our good players that way and still make NCAA tournaments every year. That said, it hasn't happened yet other than with Mika. The other players in recent years have been leaving for missions, which is fine, along with too many leaving for other, probably preventable reasons. Many of them were just spooked by the LP 3 hype, which is no longer going to be an issue.

byufan4ever wrote:

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

I would have thought that watching the mess that the football team is in would temper people calling for Rose to lose his job. Rose has the best record in BYU basketball history and people want him fired? Who is out there that currently holds a temple recommend that could come in and replace him and succeed at a higher level? Seriously folks. I am as frustrated as anyone that BYU has struggled in the WCC like it never did under rose in a more difficult MWC but we also need to remember how bad things can get if you don't already have someone in the pipeline that is more proven.

frdbtr wrote:

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

I would have thought that watching the mess that the football team is in would temper people calling for Rose to lose his job. Rose has the best record in BYU basketball history and people want him fired? Who is out there that currently holds a temple recommend that could come in and replace him and succeed at a higher level? Seriously folks. I am as frustrated as anyone that BYU has struggled in the WCC like it never did under rose in a more difficult MWC but we also need to remember how bad things can get if you don't already have someone in the pipeline that is more proven.

Don't take this personally, but I think that is flawed reasoning (and I like a lot of your opinions). Rose and the basketball team need to be looked at in a vacuum and not compared to another athletic department. If I under perform at my job and tell my boss, "But I didn't perform as bad as Johnny in department XYZ" that is a pretty lame excuse for keeping my job.



I'm going to be writing a more detailed season recap when it's all the way over (which could be as soon as this weekend), but you're telling me that the best basketball coach that we've ever had with one of your most talented rosters ever - is on the bubble for the NIT????????!!!!!!!! REALLY??!! Please let that sink in. Can you describe under performed any better?



And if the AD doesn't consistently have a shortlist for potential coaches (at least for his two major sports) then the AD needs to be gone too.

byufan4ever wrote:

byufan4ever wrote:

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

I would have thought that watching the mess that the football team is in would temper people calling for Rose to lose his job. Rose has the best record in BYU basketball history and people want him fired? Who is out there that currently holds a temple recommend that could come in and replace him and succeed at a higher level? Seriously folks. I am as frustrated as anyone that BYU has struggled in the WCC like it never did under rose in a more difficult MWC but we also need to remember how bad things can get if you don't already have someone in the pipeline that is more proven.

Don't take this personally, but I think that is flawed reasoning (and I like a lot of your opinions). Rose and the basketball team need to be looked at in a vacuum and not compared to another athletic department. If I under perform at my job and tell my boss, "But I didn't perform as bad as Johnny in department XYZ" that is a pretty lame excuse for keeping my job.



I'm going to be writing a more detailed season recap when it's all the way over (which could be as soon as this weekend), but you're telling me that the best basketball coach that we've ever had with one of your most talented rosters ever - is on the bubble for the NIT????????!!!!!!!! REALLY??!! Please let that sink in. Can you describe under performed any better?



And if the AD doesn't consistently have a shortlist for potential coaches (at least for his two major sports) then the AD needs to be gone too.

But until the Football department rights the ship and at least performs respectably, there is no way that Rose is getting let go. Holmoe can't afford to have the 2 major sports at BYU in complete upheaval at the same time, for his own sake, and for the sake of the department. These things will not be looked at in a vacuum. They are part of the same athletic department.

Jarhead wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

I would have thought that watching the mess that the football team is in would temper people calling for Rose to lose his job. Rose has the best record in BYU basketball history and people want him fired? Who is out there that currently holds a temple recommend that could come in and replace him and succeed at a higher level? Seriously folks. I am as frustrated as anyone that BYU has struggled in the WCC like it never did under rose in a more difficult MWC but we also need to remember how bad things can get if you don't already have someone in the pipeline that is more proven.

Don't take this personally, but I think that is flawed reasoning (and I like a lot of your opinions). Rose and the basketball team need to be looked at in a vacuum and not compared to another athletic department. If I under perform at my job and tell my boss, "But I didn't perform as bad as Johnny in department XYZ" that is a pretty lame excuse for keeping my job.



I'm going to be writing a more detailed season recap when it's all the way over (which could be as soon as this weekend), but you're telling me that the best basketball coach that we've ever had with one of your most talented rosters ever - is on the bubble for the NIT????????!!!!!!!! REALLY??!! Please let that sink in. Can you describe under performed any better?



And if the AD doesn't consistently have a shortlist for potential coaches (at least for his two major sports) then the AD needs to be gone too.

But until the Football department rights the ship and at least performs respectably, there is no way that Rose is getting let go. Holmoe can't afford to have the 2 major sports at BYU in complete upheaval at the same time, for his own sake, and for the sake of the department. These things will not be looked at in a vacuum. They are part of the same athletic department.

I respect your opinion but disagree. I'll just leave it at that.

byufan4ever wrote:

byufan4ever wrote:

I had said before that not making the NCAA tournament two years in a row should put Rose on the hot seat and not making it 3 years in a row we should be thinking of a coaching change. The fact that we're a bubble team for the freakin NIT with one of the most talented teams ever...yeah...

I would have thought that watching the mess that the football team is in would temper people calling for Rose to lose his job. Rose has the best record in BYU basketball history and people want him fired? Who is out there that currently holds a temple recommend that could come in and replace him and succeed at a higher level? Seriously folks. I am as frustrated as anyone that BYU has struggled in the WCC like it never did under rose in a more difficult MWC but we also need to remember how bad things can get if you don't already have someone in the pipeline that is more proven.

Don't take this personally, but I think that is flawed reasoning (and I like a lot of your opinions). Rose and the basketball team need to be looked at in a vacuum and not compared to another athletic department. If I under perform at my job and tell my boss, "But I didn't perform as bad as Johnny in department XYZ" that is a pretty lame excuse for keeping my job.



I'm going to be writing a more detailed season recap when it's all the way over (which could be as soon as this weekend), but you're telling me that the best basketball coach that we've ever had with one of your most talented rosters ever - is on the bubble for the NIT????????!!!!!!!! REALLY??!! Please let that sink in. Can you describe under performed any better?



And if the AD doesn't consistently have a shortlist for potential coaches (at least for his two major sports) then the AD needs to be gone too.

Sorry but comparing your job in the business world to college athletics is like comparing apples to Broccoli. Like I said above. We all want BYU in the NCAA tourney, we want them to win it but to fire Coach Rose when IMO there is NO ONE in the country that currently holds a temple recommend that is more qualified than he is is insanity. Remember, BYU's head coaches have to be card carrying active members of the church in order to get the job.