Rob Porter

Not a good look for the church. Sheesh. Where did this idiot (porter) come from.



https://theintercept.com/2018/02/07/rob-porter-wives-abuse-trump-aide/

scoffs. Nice piece.



Yep the entire church was complicit in the abuse. Stupid article.



The conclusion of "but don’t forget that the Mormon Church was complicit in allowing the abuse to happen for as long as it did. They could have stepped in, offered better advice, or reported Portman to authorities. They did nothing except tell the women to keep their mouths shut and deal with it." is simply not true. The article it quotes from indicates that Porter left their house when the wife threatened to call the clergy member. Clergy members were stepping in to at least enforce protective orders. We'll never know how many items of bad advice were given, nor whether good advice was provided but only the bad brought forward.



We all agree that there are untrained EQ presidents and Bishops that make head-scratching calls, but this piece is at best intellectually dishonest, and at worst, horse puckey.

The only mistake the bishops made that I can see was to not refer them to a counselor.



The problem with the story is that both women admit they didn't tell the Bishops as much as they told the the counselors, but then the story wants to say the Bishops were unfair because they didn't give the same advice as the professional counselors did with much info.



If all one bishop heard was that "he gets physical", and all the other heard was that he "has anger issues", I don't know of many bishops that would advocate divorce.



I suspect that if each woman told their bishop exactly what they told their counselors, they might have gotten much different counsel.

I agree with both of you that the article had a very negative slant on the "complicit" LDS church. Let's not forget these bishops are working without pay and with very little training in such matters. We also can't forget that we know very little of what was actually said to the bishop, cause the bishop ain't talking.



But it's frustrating (for me at least) to see a LDS guy in the greatest of national spotlights with these charges brought against him. Leave the house, cool off, take a drive, go stay at the local hotel. But never lay a finger on your wife.

FWIW, without the LDS community's umbrage and "look at how they are mistreating us!" reactions to negative media treatment, I don't think these stories (see also: President Monson's unfavorable obituary) would get any real clicks or views.



But when Mormons get offended, they start sharing on social media, emailing friends and family, and soon the troll who wrote it is rewarded with 100,000 extra view, which his bosses then turn into advertising dollars.



If you're offended by something on the internet, your best option is to make a comment on that page, and then navigate elsewhere and never return and especially don't paste the link elsewhere to drive more traffic to what offended you.

Exactly don't feed the troll. By the way I have not clicked on the link and really don't know what the story is.

scott715 wrote:

Exactly don't feed the troll. By the way I have not clicked on the link and really don't know what the story is.

Rob Porter (LDS guy) has some disturbing domestic abuse claims brought against him by 2 former wives. He is in the upper echelon of WH influence it seems.



you can certainly find new about him without clicking the above link which only provides an extremely biased view into why the LDS church is at fault. Shouldn't have posted it here. My bad. I'll remove it and post a better one. My intent was that this guy is giving the church a bad name by association, not that we should be playing the victim card via that article.

The doctrine of the Church regarding abuse is sound. The Church’s Handbook of Instructions regarding abuse is sound. Sometimes our lay clergy, however, addresses instances of abuse poorly or ineptly. Priesthood leaders can do better. There is too much serious abuse that our dear sisters and their children suffer from. When I was in a position of priesthood authority and confronted instances of abuse, I was saddened and sickened. The law was brought in in one case, but even today I think I could have ministered better to these dear sisters and their needs.

In todays political climate, accusations are made, lives are destroyed. Rob Porter denies the accusation in the strongest terms. Where does the truth lie? Certainly not in a hit job internet piece. Due process? A thing of the past.

Ddawg wrote:

In todays political climate, accusations are made, lives are destroyed. Rob Porter denies the accusation in the strongest terms. Where does the truth lie? Certainly not in a hit job internet piece. Due process? A thing of the past.

To have both Exes come out the way they did, it sure doesn't help his denials. But you're right, mere accusation are all the rage right now. Very difficult to prove one way or another. and if an ex has an axe to grind, your career could be over.

We're certainly entering witch hunt territory with the abuse/assault accusations.

BroncoBot wrote:

In todays political climate, accusations are made, lives are destroyed. Rob Porter denies the accusation in the strongest terms. Where does the truth lie? Certainly not in a hit job internet piece. Due process? A thing of the past.

To have both Exes come out the way they did, it sure doesn't help his denials. But you're right, mere accusation are all the rage right now. Very difficult to prove one way or another. and if an ex has an axe to grind, your career could be over.

We're certainly entering witch hunt territory with the abuse/assault accusations.

You know, the reason both these men resigned so quickly was to avoid the guaranteed chorus of liberal politicians and MSM howling hyena's. It's a mess and no win situation. You resign and walk away - period. You cannot win. You cannot defend. You cannot clear your name. You cannot get your reputation back. When does objective truth become important? It doesn't.

Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.

BoiseBYU wrote:

Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.

Interesting perspective. Curious, how many people have you arrested for Spousal abuse? How many investigations for Spousal abuse have you personally conducted?

That's a dumb response.

Mars wrote:

That's a dumb response.

Yours is vapid. How much experience do you have investigating real spousal abuse? Just curious. Let's see you side step and soft shoe around the question.

I wonder how many people on the average jury are criminal experts. It's stupid to assume that is needed to judge guilt.

Mars wrote:

I wonder how many people on the average jury are criminal experts. It's stupid to assume that is needed to judge guilt.

Another shallow, vapid response. The point is, you have no professional experience dealing with or investigating spousal abuse. Yet you are quick to pass strong judgements. What a shock.

You just don't get it.

Ddawg wrote:

Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.

Interesting perspective. Curious, how many people have you arrested for Spousal abuse? How many investigations for Spousal abuse have you personally conducted?

The last time you and I had a discussion, you ended up calling me names. I think the moderators had to put you in time out zone to calm down. So I am not interested in really engaging with you. But the issue of abuse is deeply troubling to me and I am willing to respond even if you end up again going the route of name calling.

First off, I am not a policeman. But I have helped a family try to persuade the police that their daughter was raped. They chose to disbelieve them. Six months later, the rapist viciously assaulted another woman and, after raping her, strangled her to death. If the police had considered the daughter, perhaps a woman would still be alive. I have appeared in court helping battered women obtain restraining orders against husbands and boy friends, who have hit them and their children. One case involved an LDS man who believed his temple marriage authorized him to have sex with his wife any where any time and at his pleasure. At the hearing the woman literally shook with fear and it took all we could do to keep her from bolting. In my church role I have been in the hospital trying to comfort a battered woman, trying to assuage her fear that no one would believe her and that there was no one who'd stand up for her. In short, I have had my share of dealing with abuse in the courts, with police, in hospitals, in homes, and elsewhere. I know something of that which I speak.

I am a believer in due process when it comes to the Government exercising its power against an individual. I believe that in a court of law a person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. BUT presumed innocent does not mean innocent and so when a woman alleges abuse, it is entirely appropriate to consider the allegation. I have also dealt with sexual assault allegations that proved not to be true. I have assisted male students facing possible school expulsion as a result of an allegation of assault. So I am not naive enough to believe that every allegation ever made is true. That is why we need to consider the allegations and their merits. Some have great merit; some do not. In the stories we have seen so far--the Donald Trumps, the Bill Clintons, the Roy Moores, the Harvey Weinsteins, the Steve Wynns and the Rob Porters, the public evidence is powerful--there is contemporaneous corroboration, photos, and multiple reports from multiple people alleging similar facts. The evidence is quite credible, the denials notwithstanding.

So that is where I am and where I stand. I frankly find it appalling that people like Sen. Hatch would call the ex-wives of Rob Porter "politically motivated, morally bankrupt character assassins that would attempt to sully a man's good name." Good name my ass. This man may have been a good White House secretary, but he was a violent brute of a man. These women had everything to lose, including being defamed by the Senator and President Trump and others for reporting what happened to them. The photos don't lie; the restraining order doesn't lie; the contemporaneous accounts don't lie. Senator Hatch shamed himself.

BoiseBYU wrote:

BoiseBYU wrote:

Of course Porter denied the accusations. Like Wynn and like Weinstein did. But the evidence is quite telling. It is clear these women did not just willy nilly accuse Porter. Not only did one produce a contemporaneous photo of abuse from being struck, the other produced a court protection order, something they don’t just hand out for no reason, as a result of his shattering a door and violent outbursts. Both of these women also detailed their abuse to the FBI. Would one really sooner believe that these two women lied to the FBI, when they had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, than to believe that the abuse they described actually happened? One of the woman, Holderness, told people about the abuse during their relationship, and these people have confirmed having contemporaneously heard the same story. Porter may deny the allegations, but the actual evidence — including the photographs and the police-reports and the corroborations— show that he abused them, both mentally and physically. Shame on him. May he slink away. This is not a liberal versus conservative issue. Weinstein is a liberal pig. Moore and Wynn are conservative pigs. Sadly there are more pigs out there.

Interesting perspective. Curious, how many people have you arrested for Spousal abuse? How many investigations for Spousal abuse have you personally conducted?

The last time you and I had a discussion, you ended up calling me names. I think the moderators had to put you in time out zone to calm down. So I am not interested in really engaging with you. But the issue of abuse is deeply troubling to me and I am willing to respond even if you end up again going the route of name calling.

First off, I am not a policeman. But I have helped a family try to persuade the police that their daughter was raped. They chose to disbelieve them. Six months later, the rapist viciously assaulted another woman and, after raping her, strangled her to death. If the police had considered the daughter, perhaps a woman would still be alive. I have appeared in court helping battered women obtain restraining orders against husbands and boy friends, who have hit them and their children. One case involved an LDS man who believed his temple marriage authorized him to have sex with his wife any where any time and at his pleasure. At the hearing the woman literally shook with fear and it took all we could do to keep her from bolting. In my church role I have been in the hospital trying to comfort a battered woman, trying to assuage her fear that no one would believe her and that there was no one who'd stand up for her. In short, I have had my share of dealing with abuse in the courts, with police, in hospitals, in homes, and elsewhere. I know something of that which I speak.

I am a believer in due process when it comes to the Government exercising its power against an individual. I believe that in a court of law a person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. BUT presumed innocent does not mean innocent and so when a woman alleges abuse, it is entirely appropriate to consider the allegation. I have also dealt with sexual assault allegations that proved not to be true. I have assisted male students facing possible school expulsion as a result of an allegation of assault. So I am not naive enough to believe that every allegation ever made is true. That is why we need to consider the allegations and their merits. Some have great merit; some do not. In the stories we have seen so far--the Donald Trumps, the Bill Clintons, the Roy Moores, the Harvey Weinsteins, the Steve Wynns and the Rob Porters, the public evidence is powerful--there is contemporaneous corroboration, photos, and multiple reports from multiple people alleging similar facts. The evidence is quite credible, the denials notwithstanding.

So that is where I am and where I stand. I frankly find it appalling that people like Sen. Hatch would call the ex-wives of Rob Porter "politically motivated, morally bankrupt character assassins that would attempt to sully a man's good name." Good name my ass. This man may have been a good White House secretary, but he was a violent brute of a man. These women had everything to lose, including being defamed by the Senator and President Trump and others for reporting what happened to them. The photos don't lie; the restraining order doesn't lie; the contemporaneous accounts don't lie. Senator Hatch shamed himself.

so ... what you're saying is that you might have a little experience in this matter?