I don't get the Grimes hire.

I'm cautiously optimistic (my default position) about Grimes at OC, but a few things are troubling.



First, the positives.



- Grimes - by all accounts - is a hard nosed ELITE position coach who expects excellence from his players. He has turned out an entire binder full of NFL talent and prospects. (And he did so while at BYU, not just at Auburn or LSU).



- IF he is involved with the offensive line (doubling as position coach) then I like the hire, as the offensive line was unskilled and undisciplined (for the umpteenth year in a row).



- He is likely to keep to a Pro Style (with some possible hurry up elements) coming from the SEC, which is a big deal. Considering that Ty paid the "buy-in" price of the switchover (waiting for position-specific recruits to come off RS and transfers).



Troubling?



- He is likely to keep Empey, who doesn't deserve to be brought back IMHO, because - by reports - they are buddies.

- With BYU getting one more coach he is likely to keep Empey to focus on play-calling, which is a mistake.

- He has less playcalling experience than Ty did.



If we can somehow keep Ty at qb coach (please oh, please) and Grimes gets absolute control of the rest of his staff and offensive duties, and he is very involved with the offensive line, then I think it could be great.



Otherwise, it seems like getting the best Web Developer to run your Accounting Firm. A mismatch with very little carryover. Could it work out? Maybe...



I'm willing to give Grimes and BYU the benefit of the doubt.

Of all the offensive coaches, the only one who did a barely adequate job was Empey.



It's possible Grimes, even though he's the OC, won't call plays. Especially if he also brings in, as rumored, Fesi Sitake and Paul Peterson to help on offense (as RB or WR caoch and QB coach respectively). Both of those have play-calling experience.



If Grimes is to have "complete control" over offensive coaching staff hires then we can't keep Ty, unless Grimes decides to keep him

SpiffCoug wrote:

Of all the offensive coaches, the only one who did a barely adequate job was Empey.



It's possible Grimes, even though he's the OC, won't call plays. Especially if he also brings in, as rumored, Fesi Sitake and Paul Peterson to help on offense (as RB or WR caoch and QB coach respectively). Both of those have play-calling experience.



If Grimes is to have "complete control" over offensive coaching staff hires then we can't keep Ty, unless Grimes decides to keep him

Barely adequate, I'll give you that. I would call it less than adequate based on the fact that they were returning starters/seniors and they had barely pass protected, and their run blocking was abysmal.



I was expecting a lot more from a senior laden starting group. They had drive killing penalties constantly.



That would be weird to have a position coach call the majority of the plays. It would beg the question of why they didn't get the OC job in the first place.

Because they have play-calling experience as you said. And both of them (Fesi & Peterson) would be making huge jumps in their coaching levels (from FCS & JC). So you give them smaller/lesser during-the-week responsibilities; where they just have to coach up a single position group (and a handful of players).

I agree that people are giving our o-line too much credit. There were times that their blocking was fine, but they also made so many drive killing mistakes.



I'm excited about Grimes, and unsure on Empey.

Jarhead wrote:

I agree that people are giving our o-line too much credit. There were times that their blocking was fine, but they also made so many drive killing mistakes.



I'm excited about Grimes, and unsure on Empey.

Good points. I would be perfectly ok with letting go every offensive coach from the last two years. When you're a part of the worst offense at BYU in 60 years, No position coach should be safe, and all could be gone.



The only coach I would entertain returning was Empey. As that was the one group I saw improvement from from last year to this year and during the year.



But I would still ok with him gone.

Grimes was run game co-ordinate and is a fantastic get do some research and get educated folks

selway wrote:

Grimes was run game co-ordinate and is a fantastic get do some research and get educated folks

Aright, sheesh. Take it easy.

Of the three offensive units--WR, QB, and OL--the OL was the least offensive.



The line often gave whomever was playing QB plenty of time to throw the ball, but then the QB would make the wrong read or the WR would drop the ball.



Ty wasn't a good play caller. We griped about it all season. Ty made Anae's vanilla, predictable offense look like a chocolate sundae. With better play calling and better execution, we'd be singing the OL and Empey's praises.



Given Grimes' experience, I lean towards his expertise.

It's interesting that Grimes didn't apply for the OC job but instead BYU went hard after him. I like that BYU didn't just sit around waiting for someone to come to them. However, at the same time, Grimes has been an OL coach for a long time and why hasn't he sought out a "promotion" or an OC job before? Is this something that he really wants and is prepared for? Sounds like he had to be talked into it. But he could have taken the easy road to stay at LSU especially after they offered him more money. I like his personality and attitude but does he have the Xs and Os?



Speaking of personality and attitude, when BYUSN interviewed the LSU beat reporter and asked about Grimes he talked about how smart and loyal he is and how his players loved him but based on what I've heard here I was expecting him to say that he had a fiery in-your-face attitude but that was not mentioned. Doesn't mean that Grimes isn't that way but I just thought that it was interesting that the LSU reporter painted a very different picture of Grimes.



At the end of the day I think we could have done worse. I'm glad we got a non-LDS hire. My #1 pick would have been Guy Holliday but if Grimes can help change the culture then he's worth the hire.



And on a side note: was Detmer just too nice and not able to hold his players accountable and not able to stand up to Sitake?

byufan4ever wrote:
And on a side note: was Detmer just too nice and not able to hold his players accountable and not able to stand up to Sitake?

Yes, I think so.

I think everyone on the staff is too nice. It all comes back to Kurtz and his "pillows and feathers" comment. No one was holding anyone accountable. From the stories I've heard about Grimes from former BYU Olinemen that played for him, he is a hard nosed coach that demands perfection. Jake Kuresa said on his radio show that he can't count the amount of times he got chewed out in a big way by grimes, but he still loves him. This is a good hire on the surface, now we just need to see if he turns out a good offense. We know he is going to change the offensive culture, I just hope it turns into wins. If it doesn't, I hope he does well and the next HC retains him.

I also hope he retains Detmer as QB coach if Detmer would do that, so he could get some college coaching experience. I still think Detmer's offensive mind is a valuable thing even though he wasn't able to create a powerful offense. He knows football and that kind of knowledge can be valuable. If he doesn't stay on staff, I guess we can live with that but I feel it is a shame to let him go completely.

Just because his players love him, doesn't mean he didn't hold them accountable. Kuresa was saying that was part of the Grimes mystique; and in his press conference he repeated a coaching mantra he's held as a truism: You can coach them as hard as you can love them.



And I do think that deep down Ty was just an incredibly nice, understanding guy who wanted to give people more chances and took them at their word when they said they wanted to be better. He's an outstanding man, and would make a great Bishop--because, thankfully, eternal salvation is not the zero-sum game that football is.

And I've gotta say, Grimes has been the best OL coach BYU has had for the last 20+years. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I wouldn't be surprised if he coached more NFL O-linemen from BYU in his 3 years than in the 10 years following combined.



If memory serves, up until the Mendenhall-led exodus, Grimes is the ONLY BYU position coach to be recruited from BYU in the last 15 years. That says something: he's good and others knew it. And he continued to move on to better and better things. That also says something: he's pinning his future on a turnaround project at BYU (highly risky), but don't count on him staying longer than 2 successful seasons. Three if we're lucky.

CrimsonCoug wrote:

And I've gotta say, Grimes has been the best OL coach BYU has had for the last 20+years. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I wouldn't be surprised if he coached more NFL O-linemen from BYU in his 3 years than in the 10 years following combined.



If memory serves, up until the Mendenhall-led exodus, Grimes is the ONLY BYU position coach to be recruited from BYU in the last 15 years. That says something: he's good and others knew it. And he continued to move on to better and better things. That also says something: he's pinning his future on a turnaround project at BYU (highly risky), but don't count on him staying longer than 2 successful seasons. Three if we're lucky.

I agree with this. I'd like his next stop to be a P5 head coaching position because of his offense at BYU in 3 years

Word was that Detmer asked more of the players in terms of film study than any other coach.

Mars wrote:

Word was that Detmer asked more of the players in terms of film study than any other coach.

Asked? he should have demanded.

BroncoBot wrote:

Word was that Detmer asked more of the players in terms of film study than any other coach.

Asked? he should have demanded.

But if you don't have the support of the HC...

SpiffCoug wrote:

Mars wrote:

Word was that Detmer asked more of the players in terms of film study than any other coach.

Asked? he should have demanded.

But if you don't have the support of the HC...

Then that's where the real problem is. isn't it.