Harmon: TY was a scapegoat

Uh Huh.



https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865693364/Its-a-sad-day-as-Ty-Detmer-becomes-the-scapegoat-for-a-4-win-season.html

He echoed my heart-ache and surprise.

Ditto. Ty Detmer is just the scapegoat. The same for Doman, Anae, and now Detmer. The problems are higher and deeper. There is a reason why Whittingham turned down BYU and stayed at Utah. There are solutions to turn Cougar football around. I would like to see it happen. Not sure it will happen. Sacking Detmer is not the answer.

Kalin Hall is now the third parent of a recruit I know of who was told that Ty was not going anywhere and would stay on as Co-Offensive Coordinator at worst.

snoscythe wrote:

Kalin Hall is now the third parent of a recruit I know of who was told that Ty was not going anywhere and would stay on as Co-Offensive Coordinator at worst.

this is why I think Chow is going to come out of retirement and mentor him for a couple of years.

frdbtr wrote:

Kalin Hall is now the third parent of a recruit I know of who was told that Ty was not going anywhere and would stay on as Co-Offensive Coordinator at worst.

this is why I think Chow is going to come out of retirement and mentor him for a couple of years.

Which I think is a great long term solution and may lead to Ty being the next HC in a few years

ABYUFAN wrote:

snoscythe wrote:

Kalin Hall is now the third parent of a recruit I know of who was told that Ty was not going anywhere and would stay on as Co-Offensive Coordinator at worst.

this is why I think Chow is going to come out of retirement and mentor him for a couple of years.

Which I think is a great long term solution and may lead to Ty being the next HC in a few years

I would love to see Ty as the HC. I would hope he would hire some assistants in the same mold as Roger French though to keep everyone in line. We need some discipline on this team and IMO Ty is too nice of a guy to institute it.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

Kalin Hall is now the third parent of a recruit I know of who was told that Ty was not going anywhere and would stay on as Co-Offensive Coordinator at worst.

this is why I think Chow is going to come out of retirement and mentor him for a couple of years.

Which I think is a great long term solution and may lead to Ty being the next HC in a few years

I would love to see Ty as the HC. I would hope he would hire some assistants in the same mold as Roger French though to keep everyone in line. We need some discipline on this team and IMO Ty is too nice of a guy to institute it.

You are probably right ... but I've heard he can be demanding.

[edit: that he can demand a lot from players and hold them accountable.]

OC with 120th ranked offense fired, people cry "Skapegoat!" Those people are idiots.

Mars wrote:

OC with 120th ranked offense fired, people cry "Skapegoat!" Those people are idiots.

Ty wasn't the scapegoat because his offense was awesome and got fired anyway. He was the scapegoat because there are bigger problems on the team that firing him does not address. Yes, he failed, but IMO there needs to be a top down firing starting with the head coach. Like I have said in other threads, the defense was ranked nearly as bad as the offense nationally and yet the Dcoordinator is still there. If you are firing one, you should be firing both.

Mars wrote:

OC with 120th ranked offense fired, people cry "Skapegoat!" Those people are idiots.

But no one has lost their job on the Defensive (i.e. Kalani's) side of the ball over the:



#104 Pass Efficiency Defense

#90 3rd/4th Down Conversion Defense

#116 Team Sacks

#110 Yards Per Completion Defense

#120 Team Tackles Per Loss



Instead we've apparently told our leading tackler and team captain that he's too short to stick around for his senior season because getting taller at Mike fixes all of that.



That's when it starts to look scape-goaty.

snoscythe wrote:



Instead we've apparently told our leading tackler and team captain that he's too short to stick around for his senior season because getting taller at Mike fixes all of that.

This still just boggles my mind. There has to be more to the story....like, A LOT more.



As far as Ty goes, I feel like he got put into an impossible situation, especially with no experience as a D1 coach. My heart goes out him, and I hope he stays on as the QB coach, gets out of the limelight for a few years, gets some experience and gets back to OC.

snoscythe wrote:

OC with 120th ranked offense fired, people cry "Skapegoat!" Those people are idiots.

But no one has lost their job on the Defensive (i.e. Kalani's) side of the ball over the:



#104 Pass Efficiency Defense

#90 3rd/4th Down Conversion Defense

#116 Team Sacks

#110 Yards Per Completion Defense

#120 Team Tackles Per Loss



Instead we've apparently told our leading tackler and team captain that he's too short to stick around for his senior season because getting taller at Mike fixes all of that.



That's when it starts to look scape-goaty.

43rd in Rush Defense

32nd in Rushing yards allowed per attempt

48th in Total Defense

49th in Scoring Defense



In 2016



14th in Scoring Defense

34th in Total Defense



Meanwhile. . .



105th in Rushing Offense

118th in Pass efficiency offense

119th in Total Offense

124th in Scoring Offense



In 2016



41st in Rushing Offense

101st in Pass efficiency

71st in Total Offense

62nd in Scoring Offense



I can see why they fired Ty and not the defensive staff. For now.

Ty's firing was completely understandable and likely deserved. He just should have been joined by others. Consider

After 26 games leading the BYU offense:

• the Cougars scored more points than our opponents allowed just seven times (none of which occurred this year) or 26.9% of the time.


• the Cougars gained more total yards than our opponents allowed just six times (only twice in 2017) or 23.1% of the time.


• the Cougars gained more rushing yards than our opponents allowed just 14 times (just four times in 2017) or 53.8% of the time.


• the Cougars gained more passing yards than our opponents allowed just eight times (just five times in 2017) or 30.8% of the time.


• the Cougars bested our opponents defensive passing efficiency rating just four times (twice each year) or 15.4% of the time.

Under Ty Detmer, BYU beat those opposing defensive averages just 39 times out of the 130 opportunities or 30% of the time. Football isn't baseball and a 30% success rate isn't good and is most certainly a firable offense. He just should have been joined by several other coaches who similarly failed to produce.

Top 60 Defense in yards/points vs Top 120 Offense in yards/points is hardly comparable, statistically.

SpiffCoug wrote:
He just should have been joined by others. . . . He just should have been joined by several other coaches who similarly failed to produce.

That's the point. No one else has felt the axe, and that's what makes an otherwise justifiable firing look like a scapegoat.



I think some people are confused or on different pages as to what it means to be a scapegoat. Doesn't mean the firing wasn't justified, in my mind saying he's a scapegoat means that he is being unfairly blamed for others' failures even within a justifiable dismissal.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Ty's firing was completely understandable and likely deserved. He just should have been joined by others. Consider

After 26 games leading the BYU offense:

• the Cougars scored more points than our opponents allowed just seven times (none of which occurred this year) or 26.9% of the time.


• the Cougars gained more total yards than our opponents allowed just six times (only twice in 2017) or 23.1% of the time.


• the Cougars gained more rushing yards than our opponents allowed just 14 times (just four times in 2017) or 53.8% of the time.


• the Cougars gained more passing yards than our opponents allowed just eight times (just five times in 2017) or 30.8% of the time.


• the Cougars bested our opponents defensive passing efficiency rating just four times (twice each year) or 15.4% of the time.

Under Ty Detmer, BYU beat those opposing defensive averages just 39 times out of the 130 opportunities or 30% of the time. Football isn't baseball and a 30% success rate isn't good and is most certainly a firable offense. He just should have been joined by several other coaches who similarly failed to produce.

I would be shocked if Ty was the only staff change. It sounds like the new OC will be able to pick his own staff. I imagine a few more heads will roll.

Was the firing justifiable?

Did Ty Detmer get to: a) pick the position coaches on his side of the ball? b) fire the position coaches on his side of the ball that didn't perform as he needed? c) ensure there was sufficient time on the practice field? d) ensure there was sufficient time in the weight room with a competent S&C coach? e) ensure there was sufficient time in the film room for all position groups on his side of the ball?

From a simplistic macro view: sure it is justifiable. But, if all the other problems we have heard about are true, and if Ty wasn't given the control to fix things on his side of the ball, then I don't think it was justifiable. We will never know the answer to these questions (or maybe we will at some point) ... so it's just a debate now. But for me, I've seen enough bad decisions and protection of friends that I have my doubts.



Therefore, in my mind, Ty is a scapegoat because he is being held responsible for the HC's decisions, Ty is getting axed when injuries caused problems that no OC could have handled, Ty is getting axed when installing a pro-style offense takes more than 2 years, and Ty hasn't coached a single guy he recruited. Ty is deserving of some blame ... but not all of it. That is why I think of Ty as a scapegoat ... he was sacrificed to hide the sins of the others.

snoscythe wrote:

OC with 120th ranked offense fired, people cry "Skapegoat!" Those people are idiots.

But no one has lost their job on the Defensive (i.e. Kalani's) side of the ball over the:



#104 Pass Efficiency Defense

#90 3rd/4th Down Conversion Defense

#116 Team Sacks

#110 Yards Per Completion Defense

#120 Team Tackles Per Loss



Instead we've apparently told our leading tackler and team captain that he's too short to stick around for his senior season because getting taller at Mike fixes all of that.



That's when it starts to look scape-goaty.

#49 Scoring Defense

No part of this team was good this year. But the offense was exceptionally bad.

Mars wrote:

Top 60 Defense in yards/points vs Top 120 Offense in yards/points is hardly comparable, statistically.

If we had an offense that finished in the top 70-100 in most categories, the team would be preparing for a bowl game 3 weeks away. That would likely translate to the win over UMass and at least one more win out of Fresno, ECU, Utah, and Utah St.



If the offense was in the top-50 in scoring and rushing, etc., we would likely have 8 or 9 wins.



While the defense was not good, the defense did enough for BYU to win all but perhaps 3 or 4 games. If you watched any BYU football this year, you would easily identify that the offense was terrible and much more of a problem for the team than the defense or special teams.