What changes does BYU need to make?

While I am a big believer in not putting too much emphasis on one game, or even one season, this one sure feels different. For many years, even during the Mendenhall era, BYU played at a notch below truly good teams. Occasionally, when we played nearly perfect, we could beat good teams, but our margin of error was always razor thin. Mendenhall attacked that problem by trying to be perfect in execution.



Sitake has a different style. Of course his premise seems good, that we would help our players excel by removing the pressure to be perfect, and letting their talent shine through. He seems to have been hoping that his charisma could recruit a higher level of athlete to BYU, and all would be well.



Year 2 is therefore slightly early to evaluate his approach, as he is still playing mostly with Bronco's recruits. I think this staff should get year 3, where they should, for the first time, be playing with a majority of their own recruits.



But if they can't get it turned around, then maybe the problem is systemic, and comes from BYU being who we are, a religious-based, private university who does not command sufficient market share to leverage itself into a P5 conference. If that is who we are, then let's stop comparing ourselves to Utah (who got lucky to hit the P5 jackpot) and just be us! That would mean the following:



1. Get back in the MWC so we can compete for a conference title and NY6 bowl bid. No shame in this. It would help us competitively. We can still strive to play 2-3 P5 teams per year.

2. Eliminate the requirement that the head football coach be an LDS Member. Lots of coaches who could live the Honor Code, but might not be LDS yet. This would allow us to at least take a shot at some really talented coaches on their way up. And it would make our facilities advantage at the MWC level really be an advantage.



Let's be honest, Independence was a reaction to Utah joining the Pac 12. It is fun, and probably economically sustainable, but not likely to help us be more competitive at the P5 level. As an independent, we are unlikely to move up in the eschelon of college football. Accept it, and let's get back to enjoying football again!



P.S., it might benefit basketball as well.

cougarapologist wrote:





1. Get back in the MWC so we can compete for a conference title and NY6 bowl bid. No shame in this. It would help us competitively. We can still strive to play 2-3 P5 teams per year.

Everyone who advocates for joining a conference has as either a "given" or an assumption that joining a conference will automatically help us out. How? It certainly wouldn't help us this year, nor would it have last year... How would playing on less tv sets for less money help us in any way? You may say that it opens up the gate for a NY^ bowl game. I say - that's an unknown. We certainly wouldn't have qualified for one last year, nor would we have in any single year of independence... so how does it work?



And NY6 bowl game... So what? Hasn't Hawaii been to one. How did it help them out?



Joining a conference would be a horrible overreaction that would further exacerbate the problems with this program rather than help fix them.

Those that criticized the Bronco and Anae football teams had rocks in their heads. Seems like some folks just like to whine. There is a reason Bronco left BYU, and it was about more than just money.



If you want to compare apples to apples, compare how both Virginia and BYU did this year against Boise St.



BYU 7, Boise 27

VA 42, Boise St. 23.



The big elephant in the room is BYU's self imposed culture and HC. It's a point which BYU fans take great pride in - to a point. When it limits who you can recruit and hire for coaching staff, it take a toll in the "W" column. It's a fact. BYU fans will counter with "we don't want those players here anyway." Really? When really great recruits in-state are flipping to Utah? Think again.



In the last 21 years Utah St. has beaten BYU 14 times. In the last 10 years Utah St. has won 7 times. That is ridiculous. BYU should OWN Utah St. Something is wrong - yet none of the BYU loyal will admit or address it.



And yes, BYU should get back into the MWC and strive to be competitive. They aren't now.

Ddawg wrote:

Those that criticized the Bronco and Anae football teams had rocks in their heads. Seems like some folks just like to whine. There is a reason Bronco left BYU, and it was about more than just money.



If you want to compare apples to apples, compare how both Virginia and BYU did this year against Boise St.



BYU 7, Boise 27

VA 42, Boise St. 23.



The big elephant in the room is BYU's self imposed culture and HC. It's a point which BYU fans take great pride in - to a point. When it limits who you can recruit and hire for coaching staff, it take a toll in the "W" column. It's a fact. BYU fans will counter with "we don't want those players here anyway." Really? When really great recruits in-state are flipping to Utah? Think again.



In the last 21 years Utah St. has beaten BYU 14 times. In the last 10 years Utah St. has won 7 times. That is ridiculous. BYU should OWN Utah St. Something is wrong - yet none of the BYU loyal will admit or address it.



And yes, BYU should get back into the MWC and strive to be competitive. They aren't now.

In the last 21 years, BYU has beaten USU 17 times; USU has won four contests. In the last 10 years, BYU has won 7 times and USU 3 times.

BoiseBYU wrote:

Those that criticized the Bronco and Anae football teams had rocks in their heads. Seems like some folks just like to whine. There is a reason Bronco left BYU, and it was about more than just money.



If you want to compare apples to apples, compare how both Virginia and BYU did this year against Boise St.



BYU 7, Boise 27

VA 42, Boise St. 23.



The big elephant in the room is BYU's self imposed culture and HC. It's a point which BYU fans take great pride in - to a point. When it limits who you can recruit and hire for coaching staff, it take a toll in the "W" column. It's a fact. BYU fans will counter with "we don't want those players here anyway." Really? When really great recruits in-state are flipping to Utah? Think again.



In the last 21 years Utah St. has beaten BYU 14 times. In the last 10 years Utah St. has won 7 times. That is ridiculous. BYU should OWN Utah St. Something is wrong - yet none of the BYU loyal will admit or address it.



And yes, BYU should get back into the MWC and strive to be competitive. They aren't now.

In the last 21 years, BYU has beaten USU 17 times; USU has won four contests. In the last 10 years, BYU has won 7 times and USU 3 times.

I guess that's an argument as to why BYU should join a conference, no one can remember how dominant BYU has been otherwise....

BoiseBYU wrote:

Those that criticized the Bronco and Anae football teams had rocks in their heads. Seems like some folks just like to whine. There is a reason Bronco left BYU, and it was about more than just money.



If you want to compare apples to apples, compare how both Virginia and BYU did this year against Boise St.



BYU 7, Boise 27

VA 42, Boise St. 23.



The big elephant in the room is BYU's self imposed culture and HC. It's a point which BYU fans take great pride in - to a point. When it limits who you can recruit and hire for coaching staff, it take a toll in the "W" column. It's a fact. BYU fans will counter with "we don't want those players here anyway." Really? When really great recruits in-state are flipping to Utah? Think again.



In the last 21 years Utah St. has beaten BYU 14 times. In the last 10 years Utah St. has won 7 times. That is ridiculous. BYU should OWN Utah St. Something is wrong - yet none of the BYU loyal will admit or address it.



And yes, BYU should get back into the MWC and strive to be competitive. They aren't now.

In the last 21 years, BYU has beaten USU 17 times; USU has won four contests. In the last 10 years, BYU has won 7 times and USU 3 times.

Then I stand corrected. Thank you.

ABYUFAN wrote:

1. Get back in the MWC so we can compete for a conference title and NY6 bowl bid. No shame in this. It would help us competitively. We can still strive to play 2-3 P5 teams per year.

Everyone who advocates for joining a conference has as either a "given" or an assumption that joining a conference will automatically help us out. How? It certainly wouldn't help us this year, nor would it have last year... How would playing on less tv sets for less money help us in any way? You may say that it opens up the gate for a NY^ bowl game. I say - that's an unknown. We certainly wouldn't have qualified for one last year, nor would we have in any single year of independence... so how does it work?



And NY6 bowl game... So what? Hasn't Hawaii been to one. How did it help them out?



Joining a conference would be a horrible overreaction that would further exacerbate the problems with this program rather than help fix them.

I agree that independence is probably economically sustainable. But it feels like we are trending towards more seasons like this. And if you are an LDS kid who is a 3-5 star recruit, why would you come to BYU? No conference title to shoot for, no title game to shoot for, no guaranteed method to big-time bowl games. Our advantages (support them in their mission and religion) can now be found at other schools that do get them into the limelight. Yes, we have fun games in September and early October, but you have to admit the rest of the season is pretty sad and meaningless, even in years when we are good.



I say let's stop letting "what Utah does" be our motivation for everything. What is best for BYU in the long run? Well, if we aren't going to spend enough on our football program to compete for the best coaches and recruits like a P5 school, then let's be the best Group of 5 school we can be. How much fun have Boise St. fans had at great bowl games and good games in September, then playing for a conference title? We have lost all of that.

Maybe the Sun Belt or Big Sky would let us in?

byufan4ever wrote:

Maybe the Sun Belt or Big Sky would let us in?

With this coaching staff, BYU wouldn't win either of those conferences.

cougarapologist wrote:

cougarapologist wrote:





1. Get back in the MWC so we can compete for a conference title and NY6 bowl bid. No shame in this. It would help us competitively. We can still strive to play 2-3 P5 teams per year.

Everyone who advocates for joining a conference has as either a "given" or an assumption that joining a conference will automatically help us out. How? It certainly wouldn't help us this year, nor would it have last year... How would playing on less tv sets for less money help us in any way? You may say that it opens up the gate for a NY^ bowl game. I say - that's an unknown. We certainly wouldn't have qualified for one last year, nor would we have in any single year of independence... so how does it work?



And NY6 bowl game... So what? Hasn't Hawaii been to one. How did it help them out?



Joining a conference would be a horrible overreaction that would further exacerbate the problems with this program rather than help fix them.

I agree that independence is probably economically sustainable. But it feels like we are trending towards more seasons like this. And if you are an LDS kid who is a 3-5 star recruit, why would you come to BYU? No conference title to shoot for, no title game to shoot for, no guaranteed method to big-time bowl games. Our advantages (support them in their mission and religion) can now be found at other schools that do get them into the limelight. Yes, we have fun games in September and early October, but you have to admit the rest of the season is pretty sad and meaningless, even in years when we are good.



I say let's stop letting "what Utah does" be our motivation for everything. What is best for BYU in the long run? Well, if we aren't going to spend enough on our football program to compete for the best coaches and recruits like a P5 school, then let's be the best Group of 5 school we can be. How much fun have Boise St. fans had at great bowl games and good games in September, then playing for a conference title? We have lost all of that.

This is not about "what Utah Does" Utah is NOT independent in football. This is about being in a better situation than we were otherwise in. This year shows us exactly what joining a conference would cost us. We get to watch our Cougars this week in an excellent time slot. Saturday at 1:30 in the afternoon. If we were in the Mountain West would we have that time and station? Does your TV provider even carry the Mountain West network? I couldn't watch the Utah State game because of the lousy TV package that the MWC has.



And honestly do you think any recruits are weighing a potential conference championship in their school destination? Like "BYU plays big schools in NFL stadiums on ESPN ...but I would rather play Wyoming on a tv channel no one gets in November for the possibility of a CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP! Come on - seriously?



And remember when we left the MWC - the conference was bad bad bad... BSU left the MWC too, they left in part because the Conference was regulating what football uniforms the teams wore. Seriously what conference does that? The MWC brought BSU back, we haven't been invited back, and there's many good reasons on both sides never to return.

ABYUFAN wrote:



This is not about "what Utah Does" Utah is NOT independent in football. This is about being in a better situation than we were otherwise in. This year shows us exactly what joining a conference would cost us. We get to watch our Cougars this week in an excellent time slot. Saturday at 1:30 in the afternoon. If we were in the Mountain West would we have that time and station? Does your TV provider even carry the Mountain West network? I couldn't watch the Utah State game because of the lousy TV package that the MWC has.



And honestly do you think any recruits are weighing a potential conference championship in their school destination? Like "BYU plays big schools in NFL stadiums on ESPN ...but I would rather play Wyoming on a tv channel no one gets in November for the possibility of a CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP! Come on - seriously?



And remember when we left the MWC - the conference was bad bad bad... BSU left the MWC too, they left in part because the Conference was regulating what football uniforms the teams wore. Seriously what conference does that? The MWC brought BSU back, we haven't been invited back, and there's many good reasons on both sides never to return.

Agreed.



BYU is trying to use the football program to further a specific goal that is tied directly to the mission of the university and the church. It is the pinnacle of stupidity to think the church is going to get rid of the HC for a football program; there is greater likelihood of getting rid of the football program. (At Ricks, after getting rid of sports, they said they got rid of about 80% of the problems ...) And it's not about paying a non-LDS coach more ... that doesn't fit in with the mission of the program, the university, or the church.



I've been reading the whining on this board (and I've participated in it) ... but this has got to stop. The complaining and negativity is taxing on each of us. I used to enjoy getting on this board to commiserate and share and hopefully learn from you guys. I've been negative too, so I fully recognize that when I point a finger at someone else I've got three pointed back at me ... but can we PLEASE try to be positive about something? I'm getting to the point that I skip some posters comments ... I look at the name up top and I know exactly what I'm going to get if I read the post ... KS is terrible, every coach must be fired immediately ... blah, blah, blah ... every thread draws the same comments from certain posters. Create a board about how the earth must love BYU, else why is the sky blue! ... and certain of us will turn it into a bash on the program and coaches.



Sheesh!



I turned to this thread hoping some of you who have some good insight could point to something ... maybe I'll learn something. But no, it turns into a trash the coaches thread!



I REALLY, HONESTLY would like to see some serious comments about what could be done. I've read (and believe) that the recievers are soft and weak. OK, what should they do better? What about the O-line ... what do they need to change? (As Olsen showed in his film review, at least several of the QB rushes against ECU was because the RB missed his man ... so, do we blame the O-line?)



OK, I'm getting off my soapbox. I'm tired. Boise ... where is the bottom 5 that you used to do? I could use some humor right now ... :~(

Ddawg wrote:

Ddawg wrote:

Those that criticized the Bronco and Anae football teams had rocks in their heads. Seems like some folks just like to whine. There is a reason Bronco left BYU, and it was about more than just money.



If you want to compare apples to apples, compare how both Virginia and BYU did this year against Boise St.



BYU 7, Boise 27

VA 42, Boise St. 23.



The big elephant in the room is BYU's self imposed culture and HC. It's a point which BYU fans take great pride in - to a point. When it limits who you can recruit and hire for coaching staff, it take a toll in the "W" column. It's a fact. BYU fans will counter with "we don't want those players here anyway." Really? When really great recruits in-state are flipping to Utah? Think again.



In the last 21 years Utah St. has beaten BYU 14 times. In the last 10 years Utah St. has won 7 times. That is ridiculous. BYU should OWN Utah St. Something is wrong - yet none of the BYU loyal will admit or address it.



And yes, BYU should get back into the MWC and strive to be competitive. They aren't now.

In the last 21 years, BYU has beaten USU 17 times; USU has won four contests. In the last 10 years, BYU has won 7 times and USU 3 times.

Then I stand corrected. Thank you.

No problemo! Your overall point is sound in my book. We are second fiddle to UT and USU is making moves. Reality is tearing right at us.

BYU should never go back to the MWC for any reason. That divorce was ugly. It would be like a dog going back to its vomit. I would prefer the AAC over the MW any day of the week. What we really need is a competent coaching staff to get us back to winning against our independent schedule and maybe something better would come along.

What changes do we need?



A new coaching staff.



While I am not the biggest fan of the HC, BYU has won plenty of games with it. There is enough LDS talent for BYU to compete at a national level. We've gotten close and I truly believe we could get there with the right coaching staff.



Bronco hit a ceiling. With an above average OC at his side, we would have made some noise. With an OC like Anae, we still won a lot of games. So, it can be done.



I like the idea of joining a conference. I miss playing for something. I also like being independent. Above all, I like watching BYU win.



If the Church is serious about using football as a marketing tool, then they need the football team playing and winning on the largest stage possible. To do that, they need to spend some cash on a legit coaching staff. There is plenty of LDS talent out there. We just have to be willing to pay for it.

Seriously...a new coaching staff? I strongly disagree. The team is beaten up from playing a very difficult up front schedule (LSU, Utah, Wisconsin, BSU, MSU...even USU is playing well). We likely will lose to Fresno State as they are 4-0 in conference and beat a decent SDSU team.



ECU had a similar schedule as BYU in that they had also played very challenging teams but clearly had a better offense than BYU and had better team speed; which turned out to be the difference in the game. Their WR corps were aggressive and went after the ball with a vengeance; likely those two WRs will have a good shot of playing on Sundays.



The team has suffered the most injuries that I can remember in a while, and lost a good portion of the starters. We have little depth that is experienced and of high caliber talent. Going into the ECU game, the Cougars had 34 players that were injured and missed playing time this season. 22 of the 34 players were in the two-deep and 12 players were projected starters.



Key players lost included quarterbacks Tanner Mangum (he is still not 100%) and Beau Hoge, linebackers Butch Pau'u and Matt Hadley along with now released Francis Bernard (redshirting prior to the season), tight end Moroni Laulu-Pututau, receiver Talon Shumway, and now Troy Warner.



At this point, the coaches have been playing not to lose (very conservative), and not being as aggressive with schemes. They may not want to put the players in risky situations but keep things very simple and basic and try and reduce mistakes. As a result, there have been few takeaways, produced turnovers, etc. Last year, the team was 4th in the nation in producing turnovers.



The injury bug coupled with the fact that the team has no real leader, compared with last years alpha dawgs Taysom Hill, Jamaal Williams, Harvey Langi and Nacua, has produced the results that we now see. The 1-7 record may get worse unless some players step up and inspire the team to greater heights.

I hear it and I knooooooooow.



I think this year might be just a fluke.

byucougar1 wrote:

Seriously...a new coaching staff? I strongly disagree. The team is beaten up from playing a very difficult up front schedule (LSU, Utah, Wisconsin, BSU, MSU...even USU is playing well). We likely will lose to Fresno State as they are 4-0 in conference and beat a decent SDSU team.



ECU had a similar schedule as BYU in that they had also played very challenging teams but clearly had a better offense than BYU and had better team speed; which turned out to be the difference in the game. Their WR corps were aggressive and went after the ball with a vengeance; likely those two WRs will have a good shot of playing on Sundays.



The team has suffered the most injuries that I can remember in a while, and lost a good portion of the starters. We have little depth that is experienced and of high caliber talent. Going into the ECU game, the Cougars had 34 players that were injured and missed playing time this season. 22 of the 34 players were in the two-deep and 12 players were projected starters.



Key players lost included quarterbacks Tanner Mangum (he is still not 100%) and Beau Hoge, linebackers Butch Pau'u and Matt Hadley along with now released Francis Bernard (redshirting prior to the season), tight end Moroni Laulu-Pututau, receiver Talon Shumway, and now Troy Warner.



At this point, the coaches have been playing not to lose (very conservative), and not being as aggressive with schemes. They may not want to put the players in risky situations but keep things very simple and basic and try and reduce mistakes. As a result, there have been few takeaways, produced turnovers, etc. Last year, the team was 4th in the nation in producing turnovers.



The injury bug coupled with the fact that the team has no real leader, compared with last years alpha dawgs Taysom Hill, Jamaal Williams, Harvey Langi and Nacua, has produced the results that we now see. The 1-7 record may get worse unless some players step up and inspire the team to greater heights.

Injuries, schedule, blah, blah, blah. This schedule is no tougher than the ones we won 8 and 9 games with in the past. The difference this year is the players are not prepared to win against anyone. That is on the coaches. This coaching staff has failed at a level that hardly any of us have seen in our lifetimes and definitely out of mine. This problem will never be fixed under this staff, we need to blow it up and start over.

I think cougar1 may be oon to something. I've been wondering and wondering about the problem. The USU coach made a statement in ksl pregame ... coach lead teams can be good, but player lead teams can be great. Fred Warner seems to be somewhat of a leader, but my sense is that it is divided. Magnum is a great guy, but the team hasn't gelled behind him. Maybe the problem is that this family has a lit of brothers, but no alpha big brother who's going to show the way. Tanner may just have been rocked by life and injuries and losses ... i don't know. But cougar1 may be exactly right ... this team needs a leader, and when you're a coach facing all the challenges these guys are, its easy to miss that problem. You see guys in practice, you know who sound be the leader ...



And maybe, something the coaches are our aren't doing is contributing to the lack of leadership by the players.



Something to think about.

byucougar1 wrote:

Seriously...a new coaching staff? I strongly disagree. The team is beaten up from playing a very difficult up front schedule (LSU, Utah, Wisconsin, BSU, MSU...even USU is playing well). We likely will lose to Fresno State as they are 4-0 in conference and beat a decent SDSU team.

Funny how the most difficult games turn out to be mediocre teams, and the gimmies turn into more difficult games.

The excuses are used up. Time for accountability.