Loyalty to BYU or Individuals?

There have been a lot of posts on this Board questioning the loyalty of other posters to BYU. I'm an outsider, as I've disclosed before: I went to Wisconsin. But my question to all of you is: what is your definition of loyalty? Is it loyalty to BYU the institution or loyalty to the individuals of the institution (e.g the coaches)? Sometimes, loyalty to the coaches is not in the best interest of BYU, the university.



In my September 10 post, I recounted that when Wisconsin went through the Don Morton era from 1987 to 1989, tens of thousands of season ticket holders (including me) rebelled by not renewing their season tickets in order to put financial pressure on the athletic department. Several big donors to the Wisconsin athletic department pledged contributions to buy out the remainder of Morton's contract. All of these people thought they were acting in the long term interest of the University of Wisconsin, the institution, although certainly not in the interest of the coaches.



I'm sure that every BYU alum who posts on this Board loves BYU and wants the best for that institution. But loyalty to BYU the institution, and wanting the best for the university, does not in all cases necessarily mean loyalty to individuals such as the coaching staff.

I think in some cases individuals earn a sense of loyalty from the fans, such as a coach with a lot of winning seasons. It might be better described as giving those individuals the benefit of the doubt rather than pure loyalty. I think there could conceivably be cases where a coach that you like and that has earned a bit of this trust is ousted unfairly by the university. In that case, your loyalty may be divided in being unhappy with the university's handling of the situation and yet hope that they will make good decisions in the future. Not saying that any of this applies to the current coaches.

There's been several disagreements but where are the "lot of posts on this Board questioning the loyalty of other posters to BYU?" I think we're almost all BYU fans wanting what's best but just disagree what is best and how to do it.



To answer your question for myself my "loyalty" is to BYU the institution/athletic program as a whole and not necessarily to any one coach or player. IMO (and it's just an opinion) some fans get attached to a coach or player who has done some good things and then think they are infallible and should never get replaced. I get it that sometimes fans are too quick to call for change as soon as things go south, but there's got to be a happy medium there somewhere.

BYU is more important than any one person.

I have more loyalty to people than institutions.

scott715 wrote:

BYU is more important than any one person.

Since were dealing with a hypothetical. If we are living in the year 30 AD, and BYU was a university, BYU would be more important than that one person called Jesus?

School over coaches or players. We need players and coaches that help the team. If they don't or can't help the team, then we don't need them.



The main topic of debate is how long the leash should be. KWhitt has a 1-year leash for OCs. Gary Crowton had a 3-year leash at BYU. I don't see Ty deserving 3 years as of right now, and Kalani shouldn't be given more than 4 years to start seeing success, IMO.

The big problem with this question is that I think we all agree that loyalty to the school comes first, but what does that mean to the different posters? Is it "loyalty to the school" to allow the coaches to grow and develop over time, if we think that they will become life-long coaches who won't jump to another school irrespective of the other school's offer?

BYU is my school of choice that I root for. I am loyal to the brand. I am loyal to coaches to an extent. I was and am loyal to Bronco because I could see the program that he was running and I respected what he was doing at BYU. I was loyal to Gary Crowton because of his first 12 games and with him at HC BYU was always close to being good when things went bad (most of the losses were close and could have been wins with a turnover going the other way here and there). I was not a fan of the Sitake hiring, I was very vocal about that. I decided to give him a chance. His coaching deficiencies were masked last year because we had 2 of the most athletic players BYU has ever seen in the backfield. This year has been a disaster, this is not all on Ty even though I don't think he has done a good job at BYU thus far. This is on Sitake, he is the captain of the ship, it is his leadership that has been exposed. I wanted him to succeed because I wanted to see BYU succeed but he has been a failure. I would like to see him on a very hot seat if he doesn't get fired after this disaster. If BYU doesn't make a bowl game next year, I want him gone, along with all the other coaches and start fresh. Hopefully this will teach BYU fans and boosters a valuable lesson that BYU isn't Notre Dame and when they have a good coach who consistently wins, we shouldn't push him out.

frdbtr wrote:

I was loyal to Gary Crowton because of his first 12 games and with him at HC BYU was always close to being good when things went bad (most of the losses were close and could have been wins with a turnover going the other way here and there).

This raised my eyebrows...

I was loyal to Crowton. Thought he was good. not great. But I suffered through some blowouts of epic proportion in the Crowton years. and a 3-0 loss to Utah. Those were dark years looking back on them.

BroncoBot wrote:

I was loyal to Gary Crowton because of his first 12 games and with him at HC BYU was always close to being good when things went bad (most of the losses were close and could have been wins with a turnover going the other way here and there).

This raised my eyebrows...

I was loyal to Crowton. Thought he was good. not great. But I suffered through some blowouts of epic proportion in the Crowton years. and a 3-0 loss to Utah. Those were dark years looking back on them.

There were some blowouts, Syracuse in 2002, Boise state a couple of times, Colorado state, but for the most part games were annoyingly close, close enough were we were thinking we could have been good if it weren't for a couple turnovers.........



This year, every team we have played has just toyed with us. This is the worst BYU team I have ever been alive to see.

last year each loss was within a field goal. This year, the Ute game was our closest as far as the score goes.

I am loyal to BYU. I was very excited about the potential of Coach Sitake. His staff was suspect, but I know exactly how difficult hiring at BYU can be so I tried to stay optimistic. The results on the field have been dismal, and that is being generous. Off the field I am not hearing good things either. I am worried that this season will go from terrible to somehow worse on and off the field before we are done.

pikoi wrote:

I am loyal to BYU. I was very excited about the potential of Coach Sitake. His staff was suspect, but I know exactly how difficult hiring at BYU can be so I tried to stay optimistic. The results on the field have been dismal, and that is being generous. Off the field I am not hearing good things either. I am worried that this season will go from terrible to somehow worse on and off the field before we are done.

Off the field with sitake? Or players? Or both?

Players and even some peripheral members of the staff- not Kalani himself.

pikoi wrote:

Players and even some peripheral members of the staff- not Kalani himself.

Did we find out some of what you were hinting at with Bernard? Sad stuff.

BroncoBot wrote:

Players and even some peripheral members of the staff- not Kalani himself.

Did we find out some of what you were hinting at with Bernard? Sad stuff.

Yes. But unfortunately this isn't all of it.

Joy. Can't wait to hear more bad news. I'm not sure a "sinking ship" or a "dumpster fire" are adequate metaphors. They may actually be spot on. Usually there is some hyperbolic requirement that exceeds reality in capturing the gravity or magnitude. In such a case what is worse than a sinking ship? Should probably go with something like--

Entering an Ice Age

Beginning of a Dark Age

Or just straight up....

E.L.E.? :D

pikoi wrote:

pikoi wrote:

Players and even some peripheral members of the staff- not Kalani himself.

Did we find out some of what you were hinting at with Bernard? Sad stuff.

Yes. But unfortunately this isn't all of it.

Kalani has lost the team. This is the final straw as far as I am concerned. When the off the field crap hits the fan, there is nothing else left to lose.

Don't worry, there are rumors about the basketball team having off-court problems too.