Dave Rose: This is the best team I've ever coached

So Dave Rose held an alumni day to show off the new Annex and introduce the team. It's reported that he said that this is the best team he's ever coached.



Besides being extremely unlikely, it can't help but raise some real questions. Last year there was some serious issues with the team and I remember several current and former coaching staff going on air and talking about how the fans had unrealistic expectations for the season based on what the staff and media had talked about in terms of how good the team was going to be.



Now we're throwing around the best team Rose has ever coached? Does that mean we can expect an Elite Eight run in the NCAA tourney? Or more likely another team that loses a game to Pepperdine?

Don't most coaches say that every year? No way this is his best team ever. If it is, then you are right, we'd better go to the Elite Eight or it's all on him.

It's just coach speak.



"Best team" by what measure? Are they the easiest players for him to coach? Do they listen to him and try their hardest? No fighting? No egos? All those could be reasons as to why they are the "best team" he's ever coached and none of those reasons have anything to do with talent or actual on-court performance.



I still doubt we go dancing. Glad to hear Rose likes his guys, though.

I don't think it will be that bad. On offense they'll be dropping the "dump it inside" offense to change back to the more efficient schemes we've seen before. And Seljaas being back along with Bryant healthy could be huge.The defense is changing scheme to focus on taking away three point attempts. I think this will fit well with most WCC opponents anyway, who can't do anything other than shoot threes. I understand the skepticism. I just think it's more likely in a couple of months that we'll be talking about whether we're good or if it's just the schedule rather than lamenting about how terrible we are. Also, I think football is making everyone grumpy.

"Dump it inside" IS the most efficient basketball offense. Making shots from 4 feet out is far easier than 14 feet. Just look at our 3-point shooting last year- We were terrible. How is more of that a good thing?



Besides, we've been hearing that our 3 point defense would improve the past 3 seasons in a row now, and at no point has it. I don't think our current coaches are capable of teaching it, honestly.

Mars wrote:

"Dump it inside" IS the most efficient basketball offense. Making shots from 4 feet out is far easier than 14 feet. Just look at our 3-point shooting last year- We were terrible. How is more of that a good thing?

It's actually not, according to Ken Pomeroy and the modern analysts of the game. Efficiency is measured by points per possession. Our efficiency last year was the worst in the Rose era. And his other 2 least efficient offenses were other years when we had good bigs when Davies was here. I know it's counter-intuitive perhaps to the old school thinking. We got in trouble last year because on offense we were scoring mostly 2s and very few threes, while allowing our opponents to take too many threes. One thing that may surprise you is that we shot a higher percentage from three than our opponents did. It's just that we allowed them to take too many of them. What got us in trouble was the volume they made, not the percentage, which was only about 30% which is pretty low.



We consistently traded our 2 points for 3 from the other side. That's what the problem was. On defense it needs to be about taking away 3 attempts, where our D focused more on taking away their drives to the basket. You're actually better off, especially in a league like the WCC to just camp your defenders at the three line to keep them from taking that shot and allowing them to go in for 2 if you have to. Then come down and make a three. Also, I think we will be much better from the outside this year (which would be the historical norm for Rose teams), if for no other reason than Seljaas is back. Also, our guards were clearly never comfortable with the offense we were running. I think that led to worse shooting for them when they did shoot.

I also think Heath Schroyer changes this coaching staff dramatically. When he was here before coaching the D we were the best defensive team we have been in many, many years and haven't been since he left. He will bring a different toughness to our players that they have been lacking these past few years. Great hire, I'm glad to see him back with us.



Now we just need to get Dave Rice back to coach the offense.

Interesting points BlueK and BYULV, thanks.

I don't have stats to show. I do remember many 3 point shots clanking off the rim giving the other team the ball. Whether you play either way you need big men to rebound and their scoring gives balance to the team. I do agree that defense needs to improve for an inside or an outside game.

nuk13 wrote:

I don't have stats to show. I do remember many 3 point shots clanking off the rim giving the other team the ball. Whether you play either way you need big men to rebound and their scoring gives balance to the team. I do agree that defense needs to improve for an inside or an outside game.

Yeah, our percentage wasn't great, even though it was slightly better than that of our opponents. But what seems like a lot of missed shots to us is relative. BYU ranked #204 in the number of 3pt attempts. So about two-thirds of the teams in D1 attempted more.

Also, to tie back to the title of the thread, Dave Rose wasn't saying stuff like this last year. The fans obviously were excited and the media played to that. But what I most remember Rose saying a year ago was how he was excited about the talent but he was cautious because it was going to be the youngest team he'd ever coached and he wasn't sure how they would respond. Now we know. But I find it interesting he's more optimistic this year in private than last year while the fans are expecting us to be really bad.

Well...here's to hoping! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

BlueK wrote:

I don't have stats to show. I do remember many 3 point shots clanking off the rim giving the other team the ball. Whether you play either way you need big men to rebound and their scoring gives balance to the team. I do agree that defense needs to improve for an inside or an outside game.

Yeah, our percentage wasn't great, even though it was slightly better than that of our opponents. But what seems like a lot of missed shots to us is relative. BYU ranked #204 in the number of 3pt attempts. So about two-thirds of the teams in D1 attempted more.

That shows how much I know. I do like the all around game rather than an emphasis on one phase over the rest.

BlueK wrote:

Also, to tie back to the title of the thread, Dave Rose wasn't saying stuff like this last year. The fans obviously were excited and the media played to that. But what I most remember Rose saying a year ago was how he was excited about the talent but he was cautious because it was going to be the youngest team he'd ever coached and he wasn't sure how they would respond. Now we know. But I find it interesting he's more optimistic this year in private than last year while the fans are expecting us to be really bad.

I'm not buying the whole young thing last year. There are plenty of NCAAM teams that go far with few to no upper classmen in their starting line-ups.

byufan4ever wrote:

Also, to tie back to the title of the thread, Dave Rose wasn't saying stuff like this last year. The fans obviously were excited and the media played to that. But what I most remember Rose saying a year ago was how he was excited about the talent but he was cautious because it was going to be the youngest team he'd ever coached and he wasn't sure how they would respond. Now we know. But I find it interesting he's more optimistic this year in private than last year while the fans are expecting us to be really bad.

I'm not buying the whole young thing last year. There are plenty of NCAAM teams that go far with few to no upper classmen in their starting line-ups.

Plenty of teams? Outside of the really elite ones, does that really happen? BYU isn't at the Kentucky/Kansas/Duke level. Those guys can get away with it. BYU is more on par with like an SDSU. SDSU has been a very good program for several years. Yet last year after having to replace a lot of talent with lots of young players they took a big slide downwards. Their record was worse than ours: 19-14.

BlueK wrote:

BlueK wrote:

Also, to tie back to the title of the thread, Dave Rose wasn't saying stuff like this last year. The fans obviously were excited and the media played to that. But what I most remember Rose saying a year ago was how he was excited about the talent but he was cautious because it was going to be the youngest team he'd ever coached and he wasn't sure how they would respond. Now we know. But I find it interesting he's more optimistic this year in private than last year while the fans are expecting us to be really bad.

I'm not buying the whole young thing last year. There are plenty of NCAAM teams that go far with few to no upper classmen in their starting line-ups.

Plenty of teams? Outside of the really elite ones, does that really happen? BYU isn't at the Kentucky/Kansas/Duke level. Those guys can get away with it. BYU is more on par with like an SDSU. SDSU has been a very good program for several years. Yet last year after having to replace a lot of talent with lots of young players they took a big slide downwards. Their record was worse than ours: 19-14.

Going off of the # of Top 100 players had last year compared to nationwide averages BYU should have been an elite 8 or final four team.

hawkwing wrote:

byufan4ever wrote:

Also, to tie back to the title of the thread, Dave Rose wasn't saying stuff like this last year. The fans obviously were excited and the media played to that. But what I most remember Rose saying a year ago was how he was excited about the talent but he was cautious because it was going to be the youngest team he'd ever coached and he wasn't sure how they would respond. Now we know. But I find it interesting he's more optimistic this year in private than last year while the fans are expecting us to be really bad.

I'm not buying the whole young thing last year. There are plenty of NCAAM teams that go far with few to no upper classmen in their starting line-ups.

Plenty of teams? Outside of the really elite ones, does that really happen? BYU isn't at the Kentucky/Kansas/Duke level. Those guys can get away with it. BYU is more on par with like an SDSU. SDSU has been a very good program for several years. Yet last year after having to replace a lot of talent with lots of young players they took a big slide downwards. Their record was worse than ours: 19-14.

Going off of the # of Top 100 players had last year compared to nationwide averages BYU should have been an elite 8 or final four team.

maybe that was a flawed measure of talent then. Gonzaga was clearly more talented and deeper than we were. I do actually think we'll have a good year, but if final four or nothing is the expectation, then that sets us up nicely to be upset again.

BlueK wrote:

BlueK wrote:

BlueK wrote:

Also, to tie back to the title of the thread, Dave Rose wasn't saying stuff like this last year. The fans obviously were excited and the media played to that. But what I most remember Rose saying a year ago was how he was excited about the talent but he was cautious because it was going to be the youngest team he'd ever coached and he wasn't sure how they would respond. Now we know. But I find it interesting he's more optimistic this year in private than last year while the fans are expecting us to be really bad.

I'm not buying the whole young thing last year. There are plenty of NCAAM teams that go far with few to no upper classmen in their starting line-ups.

Plenty of teams? Outside of the really elite ones, does that really happen? BYU isn't at the Kentucky/Kansas/Duke level. Those guys can get away with it. BYU is more on par with like an SDSU. SDSU has been a very good program for several years. Yet last year after having to replace a lot of talent with lots of young players they took a big slide downwards. Their record was worse than ours: 19-14.

Going off of the # of Top 100 players had last year compared to nationwide averages BYU should have been an elite 8 or final four team.

maybe that was a flawed measure of talent then. Gonzaga was clearly more talented and deeper than we were. I do actually think we'll have a good year, but if final four or nothing is the expectation, then that sets us up nicely to be upset again.

Oh I knew last year BYU wouldn't be able to make the NCAA tournament despite the talent on the court. Where BYU lacks is talent on the coaching staff. The most exciting thing about this year is Heath rejoining the staff.



My expectations for the year are 23 wins, 3rd place in WCC, and NIT bid.

BlueK wrote:

BlueK wrote:

Also, to tie back to the title of the thread, Dave Rose wasn't saying stuff like this last year. The fans obviously were excited and the media played to that. But what I most remember Rose saying a year ago was how he was excited about the talent but he was cautious because it was going to be the youngest team he'd ever coached and he wasn't sure how they would respond. Now we know. But I find it interesting he's more optimistic this year in private than last year while the fans are expecting us to be really bad.

I'm not buying the whole young thing last year. There are plenty of NCAAM teams that go far with few to no upper classmen in their starting line-ups.

Plenty of teams? Outside of the really elite ones, does that really happen? BYU isn't at the Kentucky/Kansas/Duke level. Those guys can get away with it. BYU is more on par with like an SDSU. SDSU has been a very good program for several years. Yet last year after having to replace a lot of talent with lots of young players they took a big slide downwards. Their record was worse than ours: 19-14.

What about having 3 players (4 really) from a 26-1 HS team that was recognized by MaxPreps as the Team of the Year including the #3C coming out of HS? I would argue that being young is more harmful in football than basketball. Last years team was dripping with talent and youth cannot be used as an excuse for how we faired in WCC and the NIT.

We didn't have any talent on the bench. The transfers we brought in are going to be better than the walkon level guys who are gone. Hopefully Dastrup has talent, but he wasn't yet ready to play after the mission. It's good news so far knowing he's lost his mission dead weight. If he can be decent player for us we could be pretty good, and I mean better than NIT.