United Utah Party

Frustrated Utah Republicans, Democrats form new centrist political party:



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865680509/Frustrated-Utah-Republicans-Democrats-form-new-centrist-political-party.html

The party platform calls for free religious expression, endorses the right to own guns, favors increased education spending and supports abortion in the case of rape, incest and danger to the mother.

What do you guys think?

Several items catch my attention - and would concern me.



1. The founder is a BYU political science professor (Richard Davis). Fine. But, he is the former Utah County Democratic Party chairman. That gives me pause. However, the fact that he has left the Dem party, as Ronald Reagan did ...... maybe. A cautious maybe.



2. I would need to know where they stand on controlling our borders. Controlling our southern border is a huge issue. Critical.



3. Where do they stand on serious vetting of who gets into this country. Look at the recent Manchester terrorist bombing, all the terrorist activity in Europe. I do not say shut down all Muslim immigration. But, a serious tightening of Muslim immigration needs to occur. No more open arms for people who hate our culture, Judeao-Christian religions, women, and gays. They stay out.



4. Where do they stand on rounding up over-stay visas? In 2016 we had over 700,000 foreigners over-stay their visas. Where are they? What are they doing?



5. What do they define as extreme? Are Tea Party folks that believe in a smaller, more accountable government and lower taxes considered extreme? If so, I am out.



6. Is the safety of American citizens a higher priority than continuing high volume, head-in-the-sand immigration policy from 3rd world nations?



Those are my basic thoughts.

Here is the platform in its entirety:

United Utah wrote:
Faith

Protecting the role of religious belief in public life as well as the constitutional right to free exercise of religious expression for all.

Government Reform

Promoting government reform that furthers greater responsiveness, accountability, and transparency. This includes greater transparency of proposed bills, open legislative caucus meetings, ethics reform, open primary elections, term limits, campaign finance limits, more non-partisan elections, and independent redistricting.

Education

Supporting increased funding for and reform of public education as a vehicle for creating good citizens, preparing Utahns for the future, and improving the economic prospects of all Utah citizens. Favoring significant education funding increases along with accountability from Utah’s education system for its role in educating Utah’s future generations.

Immigration

Endorsing federal action that creates an immigration system that respects the sanctity and dignity of families while enforcing the law.

Taxes and Regulations

Supporting a simpler tax system that minimizes loopholes, reduces negative effects on working class families, and demands a fair share be paid by all regardless of wealth. This also includes instituting a regular review of government regulations to assess their continued value in a changing society.

Economic Growth

Preserving the free market system as the engine for future economic growth. However, such economic growth must “raise all boats” and therefore public policy must promote economic opportunity for all, regardless of social and economic class.

Environmental Stewardship

Advocating the importance of human stewardship over Utah’s environment that conserves natural resources, promotes renewable energy, and leads to clean air and water to sustain and improve human life.

The Second Amendment

Endorsing the right of Utahns to possess firearms, as well as regulations that limit firearm possession in the hands of those who would use them irresponsibly.

Family

Supporting the family as the traditional unit of society and upholding the sanctity of human life that includes opposition to abortion except in cases such as the life of the mother or serious damage to the health of the mother, fatal fetal deformities, rape, or incest.

But, assuming they get their party off the ground, expect it to be heavily amended/revised in the first few years

Note - my concern about bringing in these hordes of Muslims is a big concern for the safety of our citizens, and the fabric of our culture.



A poll conducted in the UK this last April revealed:

1. 2/3 of British Muslims would NOT report someone if they were getting involved with folks who support terrorism in Syria.



2. 1/3 of British Muslims refused to condemn those who use violence against those who mock their prophet, Muhammed.



3. 25% of British Muslims support the introduction of Shariah law in England.





I would need to know exactly where this new political party stood on limiting and vetting Muslim immigrants.

They would certainly be an improvement over the disaster of the Republican Party and the horrible intolerant Democrat party. As I now can no longer in good conscious consider myself a member of either then I'll look into this one.



Maybe it will be a realistic party that actually follows the Constitution, believes in the amendments, doesn't assault reporters, and doesn't expect me to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for it's leader to vacation to his own resort.

hawkwing wrote:

...... doesn't expect me to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for it's leader to vacation to his own resort.

Do you realize, you have no idea what you are talking about? With all due respect, you are way off base. Trump is conducting so much business at Mar-a-Lago, Dem's are demanding a log be kept of the political visitors that go through Mar-a-Lago like a carousel, and release them. You should step back from the ledge.



"Dems introduce MAR-A-LAGO Act to publish visitor logs"



"Senate Democrats are doubling down on their effort to force the Trump administration to publicly release visitor logs for the White House and Mar-a-Lago with a bill named for Trump's Florida resort.



Sens. Tom Udall (N.M.), Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.), Tom Carper (Del.) and Jack Reed (R.I.) on Friday introduced the the Make Access Records Available to Lead American Government Openness Act — or MAR-A-LAGO Act."



http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/325651-dems-introduce-bill-to-publish-mar-a-lago-white-house-visitor-logs

Probably because 90% of the business done at Maralago is with Putin.

With all due respect you have no idea what you're talking about. As a tax paying citizen of the United States of America there is absolutely no reason for any sitting President to spend a single day on my dime at a luxury resort of his own ownership. I don't care if he's doing business day and night there. I already pay to maintain the White House, let him do his business there. No good, fiscal conservative can deny that point.



I also firmly stand against paying for secret service protection for any family members that choose to live outside the confines of the White House. We cannot bank role full protection details and lock down multiple buildings across multiple cities and multiple states. It's the very definition of irresponsible government waste.

hawkwing wrote:
With all due respect you have no idea what you're talking about. As a tax paying citizen of the United States of America there is absolutely no reason for any sitting President to spend a single day on my dime at a luxury resort of his own ownership. I don't care if he's doing business day and night there. I already pay to maintain the White House, let him do his business there. No good, fiscal conservative can deny that point.



I also firmly stand against paying for secret service protection for any family members that choose to live outside the confines of the White House. We cannot bank role full protection details and lock down multiple buildings across multiple cities and multiple states. It's the very definition of irresponsible government waste.

Au contraire. Your hate for Donald Trump combined with your political chastity belt strapped so tightly around your neck, you can't think clearly. If you had your way, we'd have Hillary Clinton sitting in the White House. With people thinking like you, we would have never had Neil Gorsuch sitting on the SCOTUS. Thank heaven people that think like you and Mars on Nov. 8, 2016, were a minority. Neil Gorsuch and the next conservative Supreme Court nominee that will follow would have NEVER happened if more people thought like you.



Your whole idea of Trump being a vacationing party boy is wrong and misguided. Trump is, has been, and continues to be a work-a-holic. He has every right to escape from Washington DC. - just like Abraham Lincoln did - and every president since.



You really live in an unrealistic bubble. You have no idea that all presidents like to escape Washington DC. Lincoln would escape the White House and spent over 25% of his presidency at a cottage outside of Washington. It was only 4 miles from from Washington DC - but that is because travel was so different back then.



Herbert Hoover built his retreat near the Rapidan River in the Shenandoah National Park. It was accessed only by a dirt road and the press was banned.



FDR developed a retreat in Maryland at a former naval installation. He cared it Shangri La.



Dwight Eisenhower loved FDR's Shangri La and renamed it Camp David. Every president since Eisenhower has visited Camp David.



Richard Nixon bought a 9,000 square foot home in San Clemente called the "Western White House." It was his retreat and he conducted business there - receiving world leaders.



George W. Bush had a 1,600 acre ranch near Crawford Texas. It was called the "Western White House." Bush travelled to his ranch 65 times for 407 days. Bush also went to Camp David 108 times for an extra 341 days (some were partial days). He also conducted the people's business at his ranch.



We haven't even touched on golf. Eisenhower played about 800 rounds of golf, Woodrow Wilson played 1,200 rounds of golf. Obama played 333 rounds during his presidency, averaging 41 rounds a year. Trump has played around 21 rounds.



What you lack is perspective and judgement. Both you and Mars should join the United Utah Party so you can twist in the wind and lie to yourself that you are being politically virtuous. You'll sleep better at night.

hawkwing wrote:
They would certainly be an improvement over the disaster of the Republican Party and the horrible intolerant Democrat party. As I now can no longer in good conscious consider myself a member of either then I'll look into this one.



Maybe it will be a realistic party that actually follows the Constitution, believes in the amendments, doesn't assault reporters, and doesn't expect me to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for it's leader to vacation to his own resort.

I'm with you. The Democratic Party is a party of identity mongers, empty in ideas. The Republican Party is a party without direction. They control Congress and the Presidency and yet what they have done is to bring embarrassment after embarrassment forward. I love my country but I'm not always proud. Today I'm not proud. I'm embarrassed.

In a country where both main parties are failures, this idea can't hurt.

snoscythe wrote:
Here is the platform in its entirety:

Faith

Protecting the role of religious belief in public life as well as the constitutional right to free exercise of religious expression for all.

Government Reform

Promoting government reform that furthers greater responsiveness, accountability, and transparency. This includes greater transparency of proposed bills, open legislative caucus meetings, ethics reform, open primary elections, term limits, campaign finance limits, more non-partisan elections, and independent redistricting.

Education

Supporting increased funding for and reform of public education as a vehicle for creating good citizens, preparing Utahns for the future, and improving the economic prospects of all Utah citizens. Favoring significant education funding increases along with accountability from Utah’s education system for its role in educating Utah’s future generations.

Immigration

Endorsing federal action that creates an immigration system that respects the sanctity and dignity of families while enforcing the law.

Taxes and Regulations

Supporting a simpler tax system that minimizes loopholes, reduces negative effects on working class families, and demands a fair share be paid by all regardless of wealth. This also includes instituting a regular review of government regulations to assess their continued value in a changing society.

Economic Growth

Preserving the free market system as the engine for future economic growth. However, such economic growth must “raise all boats” and therefore public policy must promote economic opportunity for all, regardless of social and economic class.

Environmental Stewardship

Advocating the importance of human stewardship over Utah’s environment that conserves natural resources, promotes renewable energy, and leads to clean air and water to sustain and improve human life.

The Second Amendment

Endorsing the right of Utahns to possess firearms, as well as regulations that limit firearm possession in the hands of those who would use them irresponsibly.

Family

Supporting the family as the traditional unit of society and upholding the sanctity of human life that includes opposition to abortion except in cases such as the life of the mother or serious damage to the health of the mother, fatal fetal deformities, rape, or incest.

But, assuming they get their party off the ground, expect it to be heavily amended/revised in the first few years

I agree with a simpler tax system, fair share be paid by all regardless of wealth. Reducing negative effects should be for everyone not just who they think are working class.

If they want to increase funding for education where will it come from? It has to come from taxes so how will they work the tax issue and the education issue? They'll either have to shift areas that now recieve taxes (that should be done anyway) or simple or not they'll have to increase taxes.

I agree with Ddawg's questions. Why don't they join with the tea party movement for smaller more accountable government? Yes the tea party has been under attack but that doesn't make them wrong.

There is no tax on wealth in the US today. There is a tax on income (and sales, and property...) And wealth can generate income in many cases. I wonder what they mean by "demands a fair share be paid by all regardless of wealth".



As Speaker of the House Greg Hughes says to legislators who aren't comfortable with the GOP party line, "go ahead and run without the party's backing and see how well you do."

My two cents. I have been very dissatisfied with both parties, but can't go far enough to be a libertarian. Everyone of the items on the platform I would support. I would also add that as for taxes, I still think abolishing the income tax and doing a national sales tax (except on housing, groceries, medicine, and second hand clothes) is the way to go. It adds an element of freedom--you literally choose to pay the taxes you want to by what you purchase, and it does not tax the poor or anyone else on necessities. In the alternative, I would accept a flat tax.

snoscythe wrote:
Here is the platform in its entirety:

Faith

Protecting the role of religious belief in public life as well as the constitutional right to free exercise of religious expression for all.

Government Reform

Promoting government reform that furthers greater responsiveness, accountability, and transparency. This includes greater transparency of proposed bills, open legislative caucus meetings, ethics reform, open primary elections, term limits, campaign finance limits, more non-partisan elections, and independent redistricting.

Education

Supporting increased funding for and reform of public education as a vehicle for creating good citizens, preparing Utahns for the future, and improving the economic prospects of all Utah citizens. Favoring significant education funding increases along with accountability from Utah’s education system for its role in educating Utah’s future generations.

Immigration

Endorsing federal action that creates an immigration system that respects the sanctity and dignity of families while enforcing the law.

Taxes and Regulations

Supporting a simpler tax system that minimizes loopholes, reduces negative effects on working class families, and demands a fair share be paid by all regardless of wealth. This also includes instituting a regular review of government regulations to assess their continued value in a changing society.

Economic Growth

Preserving the free market system as the engine for future economic growth. However, such economic growth must “raise all boats” and therefore public policy must promote economic opportunity for all, regardless of social and economic class.

Environmental Stewardship

Advocating the importance of human stewardship over Utah’s environment that conserves natural resources, promotes renewable energy, and leads to clean air and water to sustain and improve human life.

The Second Amendment

Endorsing the right of Utahns to possess firearms, as well as regulations that limit firearm possession in the hands of those who would use them irresponsibly.

Family

Supporting the family as the traditional unit of society and upholding the sanctity of human life that includes opposition to abortion except in cases such as the life of the mother or serious damage to the health of the mother, fatal fetal deformities, rape, or incest.

But, assuming they get their party off the ground, expect it to be heavily amended/revised in the first few years

I don't think I like how a lot of this is worded. Seems to easy to sucker people into things. For example, Taxes - what do they mean by ?fair share"? Right now to Libs it means the rich (but not liberal rich) need to pay 90% or more and the poor (at least those that vote democrat) should pay nothing but actually get a tax refund even it they paid no taxes.



Economic Growth - "raise all boats"? Does that mean that if they contribute nothing they should still have their standard of living raised? So reward laziness?



Abortion - Pretty much every single partial birth abortion done is done for the "health of the mother".



There is just way too much wiggle room in there. If they want to go center then they need make the Constitution the center because that is actually the middle. Libs keep going further Left and that leads to the fallacy of the misplaced middle. Do not trust Liberals even an inch. They deceive and lie (usually white lies and half truths) to get their way.

Thanks Imaukahuku. I see the flaw in my statement. "Fair share" needs to be strictly defined or it'll be the same kind of fudging (and suckering) we have now.



Your last paragraph is a very good one. The libs need to be called out on their deception and half truths. For instance raising the minimum wage takes incentive for improvement from people and raises prices which they blame on the "rich". It buys them votes as well.



They are very loose with what they call environmental stewardship.



Who do they think are irresponsible in the use of firearms. It looks like not liking them means you don't get that guarantee.



The Constitution is essential and that is what really needs to be done. Go back to and live the Constitution instead of putting this forward as something new and improved.

I haven't found something better than the libertarian party for my beliefs. I personally want government so small it can fit in a box.



Just based on their platform that Sno shares, it seems like they want some interesting controls of free market regulations and restrictions.



I'm strictly against equality of outcome, and anyone pushing for that is evil in my mind. This feels like it comes from that kind of camp with language like "education for all" and paying "fair shares".

Brayden Green wrote:

I haven't found something better than the libertarian party for my beliefs. I personally want government so small it can fit in a box.



Just based on their platform that Sno shares, it seems like they want some interesting controls of free market regulations and restrictions.



I'm strictly against equality of outcome, and anyone pushing for that is evil in my mind. This feels like it comes from that kind of camp with language like "education for all" and paying "fair shares".

It's because the United Utah Party is primarily put together by disgruntled ex-democrats. The cloak their beliefs with ideas like "preserving the free market" as the engine to raise all boats, and promoting economic opportunity for all. We have that now - thought the actual achieving of economic success is a genuine challenge. It's veiled heavy handed government intervention and control = socialism. Its the way this social justice works. Say all the nice fuzzy buzz words and expand the "borg." It all leads to a more invasive government that's like the universe - always expanding.

Ddawg wrote:

I haven't found something better than the libertarian party for my beliefs. I personally want government so small it can fit in a box.



Just based on their platform that Sno shares, it seems like they want some interesting controls of free market regulations and restrictions.



I'm strictly against equality of outcome, and anyone pushing for that is evil in my mind. This feels like it comes from that kind of camp with language like "education for all" and paying "fair shares".

It's because the United Utah Party is primarily put together by disgruntled ex-democrats. The cloak their beliefs with ideas like "preserving the free market" as the engine to raise all boats, and promoting economic opportunity for all. We have that now - thought the actual achieving of economic success is a genuine challenge. It's veiled heavy handed government intervention and control = socialism. Its the way this social justice works. Say all the nice fuzzy buzz words and expand the "borg." It all leads to a more invasive government that's like the universe - always expanding.

I got that feeling too. I don't want anyone in the room to have the power of a gun over me. I don't care what your party name is if you point a gun at me, I'm not signing up for you.