Taysom Hill

Had a good to great pro day. Scouts apparently impressed by his athleticism.



Here's my question, will he go down as most under appreciated QB in BYU history with the fan favorite Mangum sitting on the sideline? I can't think of anyone less appreciated unless you count "gritty" Nelson. Could be an interesting poll.

BroncoBot wrote:
Had a good to great pro day. Scouts apparently impressed by his athleticism.



Here's my question, will he go down as most under appreciated QB in BYU history with the fan favorite Mangum sitting on the sideline? I can't think of anyone less appreciated unless you count "gritty" Nelson. Could be an interesting poll.

Mangum's backup is going to be the fan favorite next year if the offensive line and receivers don't improve.

frdbtr wrote:

Had a good to great pro day. Scouts apparently impressed by his athleticism.



Here's my question, will he go down as most under appreciated QB in BYU history with the fan favorite Mangum sitting on the sideline? I can't think of anyone less appreciated unless you count "gritty" Nelson. Could be an interesting poll.

Mangum's backup is going to be the fan favorite next year if the offensive line and receivers don't improve.

Seems to be the trend.

Nelson - hated because Hill is on Bench

Hill - hated because mangum on Bench



Remember those calling to bench Hall so Nelson could play? Good times cougar fans.

BroncoBot wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:
Had a good to great pro day. Scouts apparently impressed by his athleticism.



Here's my question, will he go down as most under appreciated QB in BYU history with the fan favorite Mangum sitting on the sideline? I can't think of anyone less appreciated unless you count "gritty" Nelson. Could be an interesting poll.

Mangum's backup is going to be the fan favorite next year if the offensive line and receivers don't improve.

Seems to be the trend.

Nelson - hated because Hill is on Bench

Hill - hated because mangum on Bench



Remember those calling to bench Hall so Nelson could play? Good times cougar fans.

I don't like the word hated in this instance. Nelson wasn't "hated" because Hill was on the bench. He was "hated" because he was playing like garbage and the team wasn't winning like it should.



Hill was "hated" because Mangum wa son the bench. He was "hated" because he was playing poorly and the team was losing winnable games (the defense gave BYU 11 (ELEVEN!!!!) turnovers against Boise & Utah & we still lost)(and poor offensive play cost us West Virginia and UCLA)

SpiffCoug wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

Had a good to great pro day. Scouts apparently impressed by his athleticism.



Here's my question, will he go down as most under appreciated QB in BYU history with the fan favorite Mangum sitting on the sideline? I can't think of anyone less appreciated unless you count "gritty" Nelson. Could be an interesting poll.

Mangum's backup is going to be the fan favorite next year if the offensive line and receivers don't improve.

Seems to be the trend.

Nelson - hated because Hill is on Bench

Hill - hated because mangum on Bench



Remember those calling to bench Hall so Nelson could play? Good times cougar fans.

I don't like the word hated in this instance. Nelson wasn't "hated" because Hill was on the bench. He was "hated" because he was playing like garbage and the team wasn't winning like it should.



Hill was "hated" because Mangum wa son the bench. He was "hated" because he was playing poorly and the team was losing winnable games (the defense gave BYU 11 (ELEVEN!!!!) turnovers against Boise & Utah & we still lost)(and poor offensive play cost us West Virginia and UCLA)

When your premier receiver is Nick Kurtz it isn't a surprise that your QB is playing like "garbage".

Then we agree. They were playing like garbage and THAT is why they were "hated." They weren't "hated" because of who was on the bench behind them.

Taysom Hill should never be hated. He was a special player that gave BYU his all. The fact that he struggled running a new offense with a horrible offensive line and the worst set of receivers I have ever seen at BYU was not his fault. I will be giving Mangum this same benefit of doubt this season if I see the same scenario playing out again too.

I'm a Texas Rangers fan, and I view Taysom Hill a bit like Josh Hamilton (lets ignore all the off-the-field stuff with Hamilton for the sake of this comparison).



As a Rangers fan, you can choose to remember Josh Hamilton as the guy who mesmerized us all with his 2008 season, highlighted by his Home Run Derby spectacular:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IGoFTUVTbw



Or you can remember him as the guy who after that disappeared in the run-up to the post-season year-after-year when you needed him most because don't-you-know-people-with-light-irises-can't-play-baseball-during-the-day.



With Taysom, you have a choice -- you can choose to remember him for the performances against Texas and the times he made you shake your head in disbelief, or you can choose to focus on his unfulfilled promise and struggles thereafter.



Again, an imperfect comparison because a lot of the Hamilton stuff has to do with his personal choices, whereas Taysom's were not, but you get to choose what you want to remember guys for. I choose to remember how they made me feel when they were at their best -- because without that and the levels they reached early, they couldn't have disappointed later on.

frdbtr wrote:
Taysom Hill should never be hated. He was a special player that gave BYU his all. The fact that he struggled running a new offense with a horrible offensive line and the worst set of receivers I have ever seen at BYU was not his fault. I will be giving Mangum this same benefit of doubt this season if I see the same scenario playing out again too.

Agreed. Which is why I put "hated" in quotes.



I don't think 2016 was the worst set of receivers. That was 2003 when our best receivers were Toby Christensen, and Chris Hale. Although it's not by much. 2003 and 2016 should both be infamous for BYU fans when it comes to WR production.



2016 had 5 WRs w/ more than 20 catches. 2003 had 3.

2016 had 4 WRs w/ more than 300 yards receiving. 2003 had 2.

2003 had 2 WRs w/ 4 TD catches. 2016 had 1.

2003 had 3 WRs w/ a long catch of more than 40 yards. 2016 had 1.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Taysom Hill should never be hated. He was a special player that gave BYU his all. The fact that he struggled running a new offense with a horrible offensive line and the worst set of receivers I have ever seen at BYU was not his fault. I will be giving Mangum this same benefit of doubt this season if I see the same scenario playing out again too.

Agreed. Which is why I put "hated" in quotes.



I don't think 2016 was the worst set of receivers. That was 2003 when our best receivers were Toby Christensen, and Chris Hale. Although it's not by much. 2003 and 2016 should both be infamous for BYU fans when it comes to WR production.



2016 had 5 WRs w/ more than 20 catches. 2003 had 3.

2016 had 4 WRs w/ more than 300 yards receiving. 2003 had 2.

2003 had 2 WRs w/ 4 TD catches. 2016 had 1.

2003 had 3 WRs w/ a long catch of more than 40 yards. 2016 had 1.

If I could have infused a fraction of Toby Christiansen's toughness into Nick Kurtz I would have.

Also if I could put Toby Christiansen's heart in Nick Kurtz body we would have had an NFL receiver last year.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Then we agree. They were playing like garbage and THAT is why they were "hated." They weren't "hated" because of who was on the bench behind them.

I don't agree. I think a VERY large part of the discontent was because of who was on the bench. had Taysom only had koy detmer behind him on the bench, I don't think you'd have had so many "sky is falling put in mangum to save the season" fans running around with their hair on fire.



people weren't able to enjoy the season simply because all they could think about was how awesome everything would have been if mangum was playing. same thing with everyone think that byu is suddenly a basketball powerhouse "if only" Frankie J had played at BYU. It's crappy fanhood. And honestly, I think mangum comes in and plays just as "crappy" as Hill last season. and I'm a guy who had his socks blown off by mangum, definitely wasn't expecting him to be as good as he was in 2015.



My point in making this thread was that it's too bad fans weren't able to sit back a bit and enjoy Taysom's senior campaign (and a very difficult schedule) without fretting the whole year about Mangum. I enjoyed that season a lot. the most difficult thing about it was the fans at games and on forums calling for the white knight mangum to play.



Again, Hill may go down as the most under appreciated qb ever at BYU.

BroncoBot wrote:

Then we agree. They were playing like garbage and THAT is why they were "hated." They weren't "hated" because of who was on the bench behind them.

I don't agree. I think a VERY large part of the discontent was because of who was on the bench. had Taysom only had koy detmer behind him on the bench, I don't think you'd have had so many "sky is falling put in mangum to save the season" fans running around with their hair on fire.



people weren't able to enjoy the season simply because all they could think about was how awesome everything would have been if mangum was playing. same thing with everyone think that byu is suddenly a basketball powerhouse "if only" Frankie J had played at BYU. It's crappy fanhood. And honestly, I think mangum comes in and plays just as "crappy" as Hill last season. and I'm a guy who had his socks blown off by mangum, definitely wasn't expecting him to be as good as he was in 2015.



My point in making this thread was that it's too bad fans weren't able to sit back a bit and enjoy Taysom's senior campaign (and a very difficult schedule) without fretting the whole year about Mangum. I enjoyed that season a lot. the most difficult thing about it was the fans at games and on forums calling for the white knight mangum to play.



Again, Hill may go down as the most under appreciated qb ever at BYU.

Speaking of misrepresenting a point. My point about Frankie J was that the BYU coaches needed to figure out how to not let his kind of talent get swooped right out of their grasp by designer coaches. I guess that makes me a bad fan. :roll: We are in agreement on Taysom Hill though.

Taysom was fully appreciated for 4 out of his 5 seasons at BYU. Don't act like some of us hate him and think he had a sucky BYU career. My wife's cousin name their son Taysom. We all bought in with that "Heisman leap" in the Texas game. He had some truly great moments that has not been seen at BYU. However, just because he provided some awesomeness for 4 seasons doesn't mean that I pretend that his final season was just as awesome. Go ahead and live in La La Land if it makes you feel better. But his last season was not pretty at times. Yes, the OL and the WRs contributed to the sucky passing game, but so did Hill.



Many sports fans really like to latch onto a coach or player that has some good (even great) moments and then excuse all future crappy performances because they are so great in their minds and they "deserve" their job or starting position purely based on past performance. You had two great seasons? Yes, please stay as long as you want no matter how many losses or interceptions! I don't care because I'm living in the past!



Again, for those of you who can't read well, I don't hate Taysom. I LOVED watching him. But he definitely had a down year last season (GASP!). That doesn't mean he was the most under appreciated QB ever at BYU in my books.

if he wasnt most under appreciated, who was?

Heisman talk

got opponents DC fired

close to or most wins against p5 teams

could have left this past year for a p5 team

new coaches I believed contributed to losses against wvu and utah. as well as hifo who most likely turned wrong way on pick six vs utah.





byu4ever, your response is exactly what I had a hard time with the last season. I'm not saying you literally "hate" Hill. But he too quickly became the scapegoat for a new system, new coaches, poor pass protection, poor WR play, soft offense (minus ironically Hill and Williams). I doubt that Tanner is the magic bullet for all that. I, unlike fans of your opinion, believe the coaches believed the same Re Taysom and weren't giving him some charity case farewell tour. I think that at some point they would have put in tanner if they thought he gave them the better chance to win. this also makes me think you might want to tamper expectations re: tanner. he had a good season frosh year, but he was LUCKY and some of those lucky plays could have been ugly endings. I'm hoping people appreciate him for his good qualities and aren't calling for his head after byu loses a couple close ones next year.



I also remember the defense, while much better than I anticipated, allow some long crucial drives late in games to surrender leads. can't ask them for shutout every night, and they had a killer game vs BSU, but it's a team game and Taysom was a smaller part of the problem than a lot of fans want to admit.



I'm fine with being critical. I think it's odd fans are critical, want to bench Taysom for some struggles and think that Tanner would have saved the day. I think TH kept us in games that could have been blowouts (utah, WVU) and likely made some mistakes that cost us some. just like 99% of qbs out there, including Tanner.



@byu4ever, if your wife's cousins son is named Taysom, you do have the final say in the matter. no arguing that one. ha ha ;)

frdbtr wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:
Then we agree. They were playing like garbage and THAT is why they were "hated." They weren't "hated" because of who was on the bench behind them.

I don't agree. I think a VERY large part of the discontent was because of who was on the bench. had Taysom only had koy detmer behind him on the bench, I don't think you'd have had so many "sky is falling put in mangum to save the season" fans running around with their hair on fire.



people weren't able to enjoy the season simply because all they could think about was how awesome everything would have been if mangum was playing. same thing with everyone think that byu is suddenly a basketball powerhouse "if only" Frankie J had played at BYU. It's crappy fanhood. And honestly, I think mangum comes in and plays just as "crappy" as Hill last season. and I'm a guy who had his socks blown off by mangum, definitely wasn't expecting him to be as good as he was in 2015.



My point in making this thread was that it's too bad fans weren't able to sit back a bit and enjoy Taysom's senior campaign (and a very difficult schedule) without fretting the whole year about Mangum. I enjoyed that season a lot. the most difficult thing about it was the fans at games and on forums calling for the white knight mangum to play.



Again, Hill may go down as the most under appreciated qb ever at BYU.

Speaking of misrepresenting a point. My point about Frankie J was that the BYU coaches needed to figure out how to not let his kind of talent get swooped right out of their grasp by designer coaches. I guess that makes me a bad fan. :roll: We are in agreement on Taysom Hill though.

ha ha. sorry frdbtr. I didn't even see who made those comments. definitely wasn't pointing a finger your way! Just thought it was funny so many people thought BYU basketball would be a contender with him. would he have helped? probably. I'd love to have gotten him as well. I think it might be a little unrealistic to get the Jabari and FJs of the world due to what I see as a development problem at BYU though.

I wasn't for Hill coming back, but it is was it is. It was hard watching him play this last year. He couldn't make a throw (WRs and OL certainly didn't help) and he lost a step. What is Hill known for? Running.



The iconic play of Hill's career is him running. He gave DC fits not because of his arm, but because of his legs. Most of his career the OL sucked and the WRs weren't much better, but he made plays, not with his arm but his legs. He didn't have his legs last season. The deficiencies at OL and WR made Hill almost unwatchable.

I disagree completely that Taysom had lost a step last year, and his pro day results confirm that. It was said on BYU sports nation that Taysom had not been training for Pro day because he had been rehabbing his elbow instead and he still ran a 4.44 40. According to David Nixon, most guys practice their technique for weeks in order to get the best time and he hadn't practiced at all, just showed up and did it. Taysom had not lost a step. I've said this before and I feel like a Broken record but Taysom was not the problem with the offense last year. He wasn't perfect but he wasn't the problem. In fact, I believe that Taysom was chosen to be the starter specifically to bridge the gap between Ty's first year where we simply didn't have the proper personnel to run his offense and when they could recruit guys who can run it. Taysom Masked a bunch of problems last year with his playmaking ability and we stayed in games where we would have normally been blown out and won games we would have lost.

frdbtr wrote:
I disagree completely that Taysom had lost a step last year, and his pro day results confirm that. It was said on BYU sports nation that Taysom had not been training for Pro day because he had been rehabbing his elbow instead and he still ran a 4.44 40. According to David Nixon, most guys practice their technique for weeks in order to get the best time and he hadn't practiced at all, just showed up and did it. Taysom had not lost a step. I've said this before and I feel like a Broken record but Taysom was not the problem with the offense last year. He wasn't perfect but he wasn't the problem. In fact, I believe that Taysom was chosen to be the starter specifically to bridge the gap between Ty's first year where we simply didn't have the proper personnel to run his offense and when they could recruit guys who can run it. Taysom Masked a bunch of problems last year with his playmaking ability and we stayed in games where we would have normally been blown out and won games we would have lost.

I concur here. I don't think Taysom was the problem. No player plays perfectly, so of course, if you want to look for mistakes you can find them. But Taysom was what we needed...the best equipped to handle poor Oline play. It's too bad we haven't had a decent Oline or good WR play with some of these defenses the past few years. We could have had some pretty special seasons...gone from good to great. I believe that is what Ty and Kalani are building. Mangum will probably do pretty well this season if Bushman lives up to the hype and the Oline improves. Then I would expect a great year the year after. I believe. :crazy:

Underappreciated?



Brad Sorensen maybe? Walk-on at QB, was 4th-string behind Heaps and Nelson. Transferred to SUU, drafted into the NFL, made teams from 2013-2016.



James Lark? Christian Stewart?