Coach Rose

First time in a long time. I lurked for a while but I have been so busy with my (newish) job that I haven't posted.



I saw an interesting thread on Rumorboard that I thought was worth sharing here:

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=17505122



Here are the records for teams 320th or worse in experience and minutes continuity, per Kenpom



BYU: 22-11

Maine: 7-25

Northern Colorado: 11-18

South Florida: 7-22

Auburn: 18-14

Harvard: 18-9

Kentucky: 26-5

Oregon State: 5-27

Mississippi State: 16-16

Illinois-Chicago: 15-18



Honorable mention goes to Oklahoma, who was in the Final Four last year and is 334th in experience and 304th in minutes continuity. They finished 11-20 this year. For more info on minutes continuity, see http://kenpom.com/blog/measuring-continuity/

So I did some math, and the average number of games played for all non-BYU teams is 31 rounded. Average number of wins is 14 rounded. So the average non-BYU team in the same scenario of went 14-17.

If you take out Kentucky, that number changes to an 11 - 20 overall average.



Food for thought.

Welcome back.



I'm still disappointed in Rose. I think he's made some poor roster decisions (helping guys who clearly would have helped the program this year "move on" to other schools) and put too many eggs in the LP3 basket.



This is the sixth year in the WCC, and we've finished 5 games out of 1st, 2 games, 4 games, 2 games, 6 games, and 2 games. We've only finished 2nd twice.



Rose has yet to find a way to motivate his teams in the non-Gonzaga, non-St. Mary's gyms. Since BYU joined the WCC, Gonzaga has three losses to teams other than SMC and BYU. BYU has 16 losses to teams other than Gonzaga and SMC.



That's on Rose. That has to change. It's unacceptable. Gonzaga doesn't drop games. They go in to places like Pepperdine and San Diego (where BYU lost by 16 and 13 this year) and win by 47 and 58. Sorry, but the Zags aren't 63 and 71 points better than we are. Rose simply MUST find a way to eliminate these head-scratching losses.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Welcome back.



I'm still disappointed in Rose. I think he's made some poor roster decisions (helping guys who clearly would have helped the program this year "move on" to other schools) and put too many eggs in the LP3 basket.



This is the sixth year in the WCC, and we've finished 5 games out of 1st, 2 games, 4 games, 2 games, 6 games, and 2 games. We've only finished 2nd twice.



Rose has yet to find a way to motivate his teams in the non-Gonzaga, non-St. Mary's gyms. Since BYU joined the WCC, Gonzaga has three losses to teams other than SMC and BYU. BYU has 16 losses to teams other than Gonzaga and SMC.



That's on Rose. That has to change. It's unacceptable. Gonzaga doesn't drop games. They go in to places like Pepperdine and San Diego (where BYU lost by 16 and 13 this year) and win by 47 and 58. Sorry, but the Zags aren't 63 and 71 points better than we are. Rose simply MUST find a way to eliminate these head-scratching losses.

Thanks. I have a little spare time I've carved out for myself.



It's not like Rose suggested they leave so he could go out and get Steven Beo. The players that left didn't want to spend 3 years coming off of the bench, and I don't blame them for that. Our bench is quite possibly the worst scoring bench in the WCC. That is a problem. The entire non-starting roster should find their seats incredibly warm. But, that leads me to my next point...



Coming to the WCC was a huge hit to recruiting, and to our SoS. I had never heard of it until BYU signed up with it. It makes a narrow recruiting pool that much narrower. Young teams lose head scratchers. BYU hasn't been Senior laden for quite a few years now. Also, losing Rice and Pope hurt a lot.



It's a lot of things. Rose is spoken about in elite circles, and is addressed up amongst the best and we are lucky to have him.

All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant. The LP3 come off as arrogant and selfish when playing. It's impossible to play inside out basketball when Mika is a black hole. He takes the ball to the hoop 99.9%. Emery and Haws shot selection makes them look like Jimmer wannabee's.



Brayden, now that Anae is gone, you're mantra should be #RoseGoes. ;) All in fun...

green, you're gonna have to show me how byu has had difficulty recruiting since wcc. this has to be one of the highest rated teams ever at byu. who was rose recruiting in the mwc that was better than mika, Haws, Emery, even Bryant and Aytes were highly recruited. I, for one don't buy the old "wcc is worse for recruiting because of high school gyms" line. I think recruiting has never been better. At the very least, it's as good as it has ever been for BYU bball. BYU got to play a number one seed 2x this year and beat the number one team in the country. when did ByU do that in MWC? Heck, even Jimmer wasn't highly recruited back in the mwc days. we've lost exactly 2 recruiting battles of significance... parker and jackson. BYU gonna lose those guys 9 out of 10 times if duke or unc or Kentucky offers. it's not due to being in wcc.

Yeah, I'm not buying the whole conference thing either. First, it's not like we went from the Big 12 to the MVC. RPI rankings right now actually have the WCC #9 and MWC #10 so we're right on par and even better than before. Plus, it's been, what, six years now? If Rose can't adjust after six years what does that say about him?



You know who got screwed? UConn. They went from the Big East who is #3 this year to the American who is actually surprisingly is at #7 (I would imagine that they've been much lower previous seasons). They've won 4 NCAA tournaments and now they're in a minor conference. They won just 3 years ago (which I believe was their first season in the AAC but with players all recruited while in the Big East) and this year they have fallen to 16-17 including 9-9 in AAC play.

The MWC has really fallen off since we left. If the MWC wasn't so proud they could had kept us minus football and been better off. Their loss.

byufan4ever wrote:
Yeah, I'm not buying the whole conference thing either. First, it's not like we went from the Big 12 to the MVC. RPI rankings right now actually have the WCC #9 and MWC #10 so we're right on par and even better than before. Plus, it's been, what, six years now? If Rose can't adjust after six years what does that say about him?



You know who got screwed? UConn. They went from the Big East who is #3 this year to the American who is actually surprisingly is at #7 (I would imagine that they've been much lower previous seasons). They've won 4 NCAA tournaments and now they're in a minor conference. They won just 3 years ago (which I believe was their first season in the AAC but with players all recruited while in the Big East) and this year they have fallen to 16-17 including 9-9 in AAC play.

That's because UConn is now a women's basketball school. Of course, that team isn't even competitive, but it's the biggest program at that school.

scott715 wrote:
The MWC has really fallen off since we left. If the MWC wasn't so proud they could had kept us minus football and been better off. Their loss.

MWC lost Utah and BYU. Two, consistent top 50 - 75 rpi teams. At the time, New Mexico, UNLV, and newly added Utah State went into downward spirals. Even if we had stayed, I don't think the MWC would have been much better than the WCC. The only legit team in that conference now is San Diego.

UCChris wrote:
All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant. The LP3 come off as arrogant and selfish when playing. It's impossible to play inside out basketball when Mika is a black hole. He takes the ball to the hoop 99.9%. Emery and Haws shot selection makes them look like Jimmer wannabee's.

What a fun 30 total team ppg that will be! Hopefully they play perfect defense and never foul.

BroncoBot wrote:
green, you're gonna have to show me how byu has had difficulty recruiting since wcc. this has to be one of the highest rated teams ever at byu. who was rose recruiting in the mwc that was better than mika, Haws, Emery, even Bryant and Aytes were highly recruited. I, for one don't buy the old "wcc is worse for recruiting because of high school gyms" line. I think recruiting has never been better. At the very least, it's as good as it has ever been for BYU bball. BYU got to play a number one seed 2x this year and beat the number one team in the country. when did ByU do that in MWC? Heck, even Jimmer wasn't highly recruited back in the mwc days. we've lost exactly 2 recruiting battles of significance... parker and jackson. BYU gonna lose those guys 9 out of 10 times if duke or unc or Kentucky offers. it's not due to being in wcc.

The data isn't super great going that far back, but depending on how far back you go we have lost out on more than Parker and Jackson, but you might be new to following the team.



We got passed up on quite a bit when Utah went to the Pac-12. Jared Loveridge was one, and then a few others. Kyle Davis passed us up for Utah State in the MWC before coming to his senses. There is a reason that we haven't had a steady bench for years, and that we don't have any seniors and haven't been senior laden for years. And it isn't because Rose scares them off so that he can get much lesser known junior college talent. That is just stupidity (although I think that he has mismanaged his bench in the past, and I have been vocal about that).



Sure, we are getting young talent. Rose is killing it. We are going to be good for a while. But it took a while to get here, and having a few Jared Loveridge's coming off the bench for serious minutes would have been pretty great.

And for everyone here comparing the MWC *without* us to the WCC *with* us is laughable. You have it exactly backwards.



If you remember the MWC for what it was (some of you are too young), with UNLV, New Mexico, Utah, SDSU, and us all battling against each other, we were easily the 3rd or 4th best conference in the nation. Oh yeah, and we won some of those regular season conference titles and upset some very good teams to do it.



I don't find it a surprise that we go to a new inferior conference and right away we have teams with almost no seniors (or exactly zero in our case this year) and the worst scoring bench in the country. (look it up)

Brayden Green wrote:

All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant.

What a fun 30 total team ppg that will be! Hopefully they play perfect defense and never foul.

Hopefully you are watching your dream team. They aren't good at all. This is why they haven't played all season. We have no bench.

Brayden Green wrote:

All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant.

What a fun 30 total team ppg that will be! Hopefully they play perfect defense and never foul.

Hopefully you are watching your dream team. They aren't good at all. This is why they haven't played all season. They flat out suck and aren't worth the minutes, even off the bench. Steven Beo... hahaha. Good call there. :lol:

Brayden Green wrote:

UCChris wrote:
All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant.

What a fun 30 total team ppg that will be! Hopefully they play perfect defense and never foul.

Hopefully you are watching your dream team. They aren't good at all. This is why they haven't played all season. They flat out suck and aren't worth the minutes, even off the bench. Steven Beo... hahaha. Good call there. :lol:

BYU has never had a bench. Not that I can remember.

Brayden Green wrote:

green, you're gonna have to show me how byu has had difficulty recruiting since wcc. this has to be one of the highest rated teams ever at byu. who was rose recruiting in the mwc that was better than mika, Haws, Emery, even Bryant and Aytes were highly recruited. I, for one don't buy the old "wcc is worse for recruiting because of high school gyms" line. I think recruiting has never been better. At the very least, it's as good as it has ever been for BYU bball. BYU got to play a number one seed 2x this year and beat the number one team in the country. when did ByU do that in MWC? Heck, even Jimmer wasn't highly recruited back in the mwc days. we've lost exactly 2 recruiting battles of significance... parker and jackson. BYU gonna lose those guys 9 out of 10 times if duke or unc or Kentucky offers. it's not due to being in wcc.

The data isn't super great going that far back, but depending on how far back you go we have lost out on more than Parker and Jackson, but you might be new to following the team.



We got passed up on quite a bit when Utah went to the Pac-12. Jared Loveridge was one, and then a few others. Kyle Davis passed us up for Utah State in the MWC before coming to his senses. There is a reason that we haven't had a steady bench for years, and that we don't have any seniors and haven't been senior laden for years. And it isn't because Rose scares them off so that he can get much lesser known junior college talent. That is just stupidity (although I think that he has mismanaged his bench in the past, and I have been vocal about that).



Sure, we are getting young talent. Rose is killing it. We are going to be good for a while. But it took a while to get here, and having a few Jared Loveridge's coming off the bench for serious minutes would have been pretty great.

Jared Loveridge was never coming to BYU. Turns out they were a flat out terrible fit. He did fine at the U where he fit in much better.

Kyle Davis DID end up at the Y as you said. I think Morrell being coach there at the time had more to do with his decision than MWC vs WCC.

Anyone else?



Here's my take. BYU's extremely limited in who they can recruit. It's the beos, Leifsons, shaws, guinns that are going to come to byu. Parker and Jackson are not going to go to BYU, probably a smart career move. Wcc is an afterthought. I don't think it's swayed anyone so far. Loveridge and Davis don't convince me otherwise.

BroncoBot wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:

All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant.

What a fun 30 total team ppg that will be! Hopefully they play perfect defense and never foul.

Hopefully you are watching your dream team. They aren't good at all. This is why they haven't played all season. They flat out suck and aren't worth the minutes, even off the bench. Steven Beo... hahaha. Good call there. :lol:

BYU has never had a bench. Not that I can remember.

Michael Loyd Jr won an NCAA tourney game by coming off the bench during Jimmer's JR year.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:

UCChris wrote:
All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant.

What a fun 30 total team ppg that will be! Hopefully they play perfect defense and never foul.

Hopefully you are watching your dream team. They aren't good at all. This is why they haven't played all season. They flat out suck and aren't worth the minutes, even off the bench. Steven Beo... hahaha. Good call there. :lol:

BYU has never had a bench. Not that I can remember.

Michael Loyd Jr won an NCAA tourney game by coming off the bench during Jimmer's JR year.

Oh, I forgot about Michael. That guy was fun to watch.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:

UCChris wrote:
All I can say is that I can't wait until this team is led by Beo, Guinn, Leifson, and Bryant.

What a fun 30 total team ppg that will be! Hopefully they play perfect defense and never foul.

Hopefully you are watching your dream team. They aren't good at all. This is why they haven't played all season. They flat out suck and aren't worth the minutes, even off the bench. Steven Beo... hahaha. Good call there. :lol:

BYU has never had a bench. Not that I can remember.

Michael Loyd Jr won an NCAA tourney game by coming off the bench during Jimmer's JR year.

I'll give you that. Although if BYU's injuries were bench players, we'd have LJ Rose and Kyle Davis coming off the bench. Two guys who would be a big help this year.