Archived Topic

Building the Wall

by Ddawg · 1/27/2017

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Ddawg
One of Trump's signature promises was to build a security wall on our southern border. This last Wed. he took steps to begin that process.

1st - Trump visited the Dept. of Homeland Security this last Wed. and signed an Executive Order to build the wall on the Mexican border.

2nd - On Thursday, U.S. Border Patrol Chief Mark Morgan resigned (Obama appointee). He was told to resign by Trump's people, to signal the Border Patrol is moving in a new direction. They will enforce existing laws. Catch and release is over.



Trump said while meeting with the Dept of Homeland Security: “From here on out, I'm asking all of you to enforce the laws of the United States of America. They will be enforced and enforced strongly."
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Ddawg
IMHO - this is why we need to build the wall. There is a novel concept that governments are suppose to serve and protect their citizens first.



Cost to the taxpayer. It costs taxpayers a grundle (cooler than bundle) of money each year. In crime, police, first responder services, emergency rooms, labor & delivery of illegal babies, school services, decreased attention to children of U.S. citizens and lower test scores, court costs, jail and prison costs, legal fees to prosecute and appeals, human life - murder, rape, assault, increased gang activity and all the crime associated with it.



How much crime can be attributed to illegals? It is very difficult to assess - because crime is not categorized as "legal citizen" vs "illegal citizen." However, Pres. Trump had announced that is about to change.



Note, the DEA says the majority of heroin entering the USA comes across our SOUTHERN border and originates in Mexico and Columbia.



DEA reports heroin seizures: up 16% San Diego area, up 39% El Centro area, up 59% Yuma area, up 58% Tucson area, up 138% El Paso area, up 129% Big Bend, TX area.



DEA reports the Sinaloa drug cartel supplies Chicago with 80% of their heroin, cocaine, marijuana, and methamphetamine. It has a value of $3 billion. That is flooding Chicago each year.



DEA says Mexican drug organizations are the most dominant and prominent drug suppliers in Chicago, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Washington DC, and expanding their presence in New York.



Heroin deaths have increased 244%.



We need to build a wall to help control all the above. It's not a 100% "fix it" guarantee. It will be an effective tool. Just ask Israel. It's 99% effective there.
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snoscythe
I don't think a "grundle" means what you think it means....
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Ddawg
snoscythe wrote:
I don't think a "grundle" means what you think it means....


I now the dictionary term - I am using the street slang term: "grundle of money." I've heard it many times over the past 10+ years on the street.



If you desire, I will change it it make you happy. As you wish.
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snoscythe
Ddawg wrote:
I don't think a "grundle" means what you think it means....


I now the dictionary term - I am using the street slang term: "grundle of money." I've heard it many times over the past 10+ years on the street.



If you desire, I will change it it make you happy. As you wish.


Come on, you know me--I just thought it was funny....I've used it quite a bit in slang (we call the middle of the truck bench "riding grundle"), but never in the usage you did. I might just adopt it to see if I get similar reactions in the circles I run in.
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jvquarterback
Ddawg wrote:
In 2013 FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) concluded the cost of illegal immigration costs at the federal, state, and local level to be around $113 billion.



http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers


How much does any other group of 10-15 million people "cost" the federal, state, and local government?



The largest cost (schooling) is $52M per their report. Since most funding for schooling comes from state taxes derived from property taxes (which all migrants pay) don't they pay there fair share of that cost?



I'm not saying migrants cover the government "costs" but the problem is the costs - not the people. The problem is people addicted to government subsidies whether they are migrants or not. The reason we need a border wall isn't the heroin coming in, it's the heroin already here - the heroin of government handouts.
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Ddawg
snoscythe wrote:
snoscythe wrote:
I don't think a "grundle" means what you think it means....


I now the dictionary term - I am using the street slang term: "grundle of money." I've heard it many times over the past 10+ years on the street.



If you desire, I will change it it make you happy. As you wish.


Come on, you know me--I just thought it was funny....I've used it quite a bit in slang (we call the middle of the truck bench "riding grundle"), but never in the usage you did. I might just adopt it to see if I get similar reactions in the circles I run in.


I have worked part time on construction sites for years. That's where I 1st heard it 10+ years ago - "That guy made a grundle of money." I have heard it since, used the same way, from time to time. Anyway .....
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Ddawg
jvquarterback wrote:

I'm not saying migrants cover the government "costs" but the problem is the costs - not the people. The problem is people addicted to government subsidies whether they are migrants or not. The reason we need a border wall isn't the heroin coming in, it's the heroin already here - the heroin of government handouts.


To be clear - I am not against legal immigration. My parents immigrated from Canada. My brothers and sister are 1st generation American citizens. My father had a masters degree from Cornell and it took him 10 years to legally immigrate.



No, the illegal immigrants do NOT cover their costs. That is the problem. And, there is a lot of crime that comes in with the illegal element. Not all illegals are criminals - but - a percentage certainly is. And the heroin point is just a part of the equation - one cog in a big, multi-cogged gear.
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imuakahuku
Sort of keeping to the illegal immigrant vein, can someone tell me what jobs they do that Americans won't do? I hear it all the time and people seem to just ignore it when stated. I washed dishes when I was younger. I see college kids now washing dishes. I see Americans doing maid work. My father in law does yard work and he is not an illegal immigrant. It drives me crazy when I hear people debating and someone throws that out there like there are jobs that Americans won't do but the illegals will (mind you I am talking legal jobs), and nobody challenges them on it. Its like theY think, "well, I don't want to do it so I guess it is true". It is false and a lie and whenever someone says it they should be challenged on it. So if you are ever talking with a Progressive and they throw that out there, challenge them and then come tell all of us what they said.
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jvquarterback
Ddawg wrote:
No, the illegal immigrants do NOT cover their costs. That is the problem.


Just clarifying. It seems you agree with me that the costs are the problem, not the migrants because 65% of the country fails to cover their government "cost" starting with all the 85 year old white women who draw a disproportionate amount from Social Security and Medicare ... or the eight children of an LDS family which cost 12K apiece to "educate." Once again, the root of the problem is the cost (or rather the government that robs some individuals to pay those costs), not the individual.



If it weren't for the costs, I'd be all for a more liberal policy on immigration. I have nothing against immigrants or the poor. Sure there is more crime in poorer areas but that is true whether or not people are migrants.
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BroncoBot
Take away the incentive to get on the "heroin" as JVQ calls it, and you eliminate the problem with illegal immigration. I do not agree with coming to America to get free education, health care, and food. If a migrant is coming here to work/further themself they should become a citizen or work legally and make use of the resources available here.



totally agree that the cost is the problem.
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Ddawg
jvquarterback wrote:
No, the illegal immigrants do NOT cover their costs. That is the problem.


It seems you agree with me that the costs are the problem ..... starting with all the 85 year old white women who draw a disproportionate amount from Social Security and Medicare ... or the eight children of an LDS family which cost 12K apiece to "educate."

That's why I have written to my Congressman asking him to introduce legislation - where all 85 year old white women are turned into cat food. And any family that has more than 2 children are forced to put their kids to work picking strawberries and cherries. They can wash cars and rotate tires on Saturday. LOL! Just kidding.

;)
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Ddawg
jvquarterback wrote:

No, the illegal immigrants do NOT cover their costs. That is the problem.

Just clarifying. It seems you agree with me that the costs are the problem, not the migrants because 65% of the country fails to cover their government "cost" .......

1. We agree the cost is the problem - and these illegal parents have NO right to claim the education, medical care, etc. because they have not paid into it. We are a generous nation But - generosity cannot go so far that it hurts the children or legit American tax payers.



For instance - here is a true story about a friend of mine that got a job teaching High School in the City of Los Angeles. The job requirements asked if the applicant was bilingual in 2 languages. On her application and in her interview she said "Yes." (She went on a mission to Germany - both spoke and wrote fluently. Also, had a Masters degree in education.) Once hired, her school administration discovered she was not fluent in Spanish - but German. They were going to fire her because she did not speak Spanish. About 65% of her students were Spanish speaking only. This is how far this illegal crap has gone. We will fire a highly qualified and dedicated teacher (who has a family at home to support) because they cannot speak Spanish to illegal students. It's crazy.


jvquarterback wrote:

If it weren't for the costs, I'd be all for a more liberal policy on immigration. I have nothing against immigrants or the poor.

It's not about having anything against people because they are poor. I grew up poor. I have friends that are very strapped - poor - and struggle. Poor is not the issue. Bur impacting our resources in a HUGE way - to the point it degrades the services deserving tax paying Americans get is wrong.



Just the number of LEGAL immigrants that we take in is about 1 million per year. Combined - Canada, Australis, and New Zealand allowed 530,000 to immigrate and have permanent status. We are a generous nation - but there is a limit.


jvquarterback wrote:

Sure there is more crime in poorer areas but that is true whether or not people are migrants.

But the point is - the illegals ADD to to crime. Why tolerate that? These victims are real people with REAL families. Here's personal experience. A few years back I was working as a Paramedic in South Central L.A. We were rolling on a "shots fired w/ victim down" call. On arrival, I found the patient was a Police officer. He was shot multiple times in the face and neck. He was responding to an armed robbery in a small family grocery store. As he was walking up to the front door - 3 male (all illegals from South America) busted out the door and gunned this poor cop down at point bland range. I worked him all the way to the hospital. He didn't survive. He left a wife and 3 children. I know the 3 men were illegal because they were caught. I have experience after experience of good American tax payers being shot, stabbed, murdered, raped, robbed, run over, etc, etc. It's not something I just read about. These are real people whose lives are heavily impacted and sometimes destroyed. It needs to be stopped. The idiot left Democrat politicians are complicit in these devastating crimes.
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jvquarterback
Ddawg wrote:
But the point is - the illegals ADD to to crime. Why tolerate that?


Well everyone adds to crime rates. Why should we tolerate any of that? We could make America pristine again. Kick everyone out.



I don't buy that migrants are any more prone to violent crime than others in their economic situation. You're overstating your case there, notwithstaning your anecdotal evidence.



The reason to limit immigration has only to do with the costs. And if it weren't for all the government handouts there wouldn't be any cost.
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Ddawg
jvquarterback wrote:

But the point is - the illegals ADD to to crime. Why tolerate that?


Well everyone adds to crime rates. Why should we tolerate any of that? We could make America pristine again. Kick everyone out.

That is not true. I understand your tongue in cheek, sarcastic statement. It's just not true.


jvquarterback wrote:

I don't buy that migrants are any more prone to violent crime than others in their economic situation. You're overstating your case there, notwithstaning your anecdotal evidence.

I'm not overstating anything. I'm telling you real world experiences. It happens repeatedly every week. Regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not. And, I have never said ALL illegal immigrants are criminals. Not even close. But some certainly are. Also, to say that poor people, in poor economic situations become criminals is a cop out - an excuse. It's not true. Lots of poor people do not act criminally. Though some do. It's case by case - person by person.


jvquarterback wrote:

The reason to limit immigration has only to do with the costs. And if it weren't for all the government handouts there wouldn't be any cost.

Not true. The reason to control immigration is multi-faceted. Like a diamond. It's not one dimensional or simple. But costs and crime are certainly a part of it. Bottom line, any govt. has a right to control WHO and how MANY people come into their country. I'm glad finally we have an administration that is addressing a ridiculous situation.
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BoiseBYU
The billions spent on this wall will be a waste. It won't really be much help at all. The problem with illegal immigration today is not people crossing the Rio Grande. It is people coming through our airports and staying past the visa deadline. No wall fixes that. This won't be the first time our federal government has wasted money, time and effort on some fool hardy project. And it won't be the last.
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scott715
Why don't they build a virtual wall of drones to patrol the border. Much cheaper and it creates jobs too.
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Ddawg
BoiseBYU wrote:
The billions spent on this wall will be a waste. It won't really be much help at all. The problem with illegal immigration today is not people crossing the Rio Grande.

Juan Francisco Lopes-Sanchez is the man that shot and killed Kate Steinle in San Francisco. He crossed the Rio Grande repeatedly. He had 7 felony convictions, had been from the U.S. 5 time. Was on probation in Texas at the time when he shot and killed Kate. He had 52 different jail records. If that was your daughter that was shot and killed by a repeat illegal criminal - would you want that wall built? Would you consider it a "waste of money?" How many American lives will be saved by building that wall? No one knows. But more that not building that wall.



An as for overstays - they are about 40% of the illegals. That number is considered pretty accurate, give or take, by the best guesstimates. Based on a study by PEW.



Based on the Israeli wall model (which is 99% effective), it will cost the $6.4 billion. So, tossing around the $20 billion figure ia generous, and probably high. Considering that illegals in the U.S. cost us $129 billion each year, and untold lives - it's a deal.
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Ddawg
scott715 wrote:
Why don't they build a virtual wall of drones to patrol the border. Much cheaper and it creates jobs too.


That will be part of the equation - and already is in use. It's not "the" answer. No 1 item is "the" answer. Just like building the wall is not "the" answer. It's part of the equation. It's multi-faceted. It's a very helpful tool. But a valuable tool. Out Border Patrol agents want that wall built. They are the experts on border enforcement.
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