BYU Football in Conference or Not

In light of our inability currently to join a P5 conference, you are appointed BYU AD for the day with full power. In this mythical world, what you want, of only these 3 choices, would happen. Which option would you select and why?

We have been treated better in basketball in the NCAAs as a member of the WCC than any time in our MWC days. We have more TV time as an independent than almost any two other AAC or MWC teams. AND we have never lost out on a Bowl that we should have been included in. I say independence is far far far better than being in any conference.

I would move our whole sports program into the AAC. While the MWC teams are closer and, as a conference, would feel better, I don't see how it would not be a step back. In the AAC, I like the more varied access to east coast teams.



My real pick would be to once again create a conference of the best of the rest so there was some regionality, because I don't have any problem being in a conference with Boise, SDSU and CSU. I just don't think that will happen again, so I didn't include it.



I love the ability we had this season to schedule the teams we did, which we wouldn't have in a conference, but it just feels to me like being in a conference is really one of the real components of football enjoyment. I keep feeling every independent season like I'm missing something as a fan. I'm just too proud to ever want to go back to the MWC. I'd rather stay independent.



I'm just curious where the rest of you are these days.

ND-deal with the *expanded* AAC.



AAC adds Boise St., SDSU, Air Force, and one other - probably CSU - for all sports.



BYU, Gonzaga, and Wichita St. join for Olympic sports.



FOOTBALL

BYU gets 5 games against the AAC, including an annual game over Thanksgiving weekend with Boise St. 2 games against WEST division (sans Boise) and 2 games against EAST division. BYU keeps its national schedule, but also gets help with November.



And, BYU would still have 7 games to schedule Utah, Utah St. and 4-5 other P5 opponents.



BSU, SDSU, AFA, and CSU would join the AAC WEST and Memphis and Tulane move to the AAC East.



WEST: BSU, SDSU, AFA, CSU, Navy, Houston, SMU, Tulsa

EAST: UConn, Temple, Cincinnati, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane



As a football affiliate, BYU would be ineligible for the AAC Championship, but eligible for all other AAC bowl games. AAC adds Las Vegas and Foster Farms versus PAC opponents and Poinsettia and Hawaii bowls against MWC/CUSA opponents.



AAC+ Bowl Lineup:

- Military (v. ACC)

- Birmingham (v. SEC)

- Foster Farms (v. PAC)

- Armed Forces (v. B12/B1G)

- Las Vegas (v. PAC)

- Miami Beach (v. MAC/CUSA)

- Poinsettia (v. MWC/CUSA)

- Hawaii (v. MWC)

- Boca Raton (v. CUSA/MAC)

- New Orleans (v. CUSA/Sun Belt)

- Cure (v. Sun Belt)



The AAC wouldn't be "power" conference for football, but it would look a lot more like the P5 than the G5. It's champion would likely earn the G5's access bid to the NY6 at least 70% of the time.



BASKETBALL



The AAC divides Olympic sports into three 6-team regional divisions.



WEST: BYU, Gonzaga, Boise St., SDSU, Air Force, CSU

CENTRAL: Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, Tulane, Wichita St.

EAST: UConn, Temple, Cincinnati, ECU, UCF, USF



The 18-game basketball schedule includes 10 games against your division (home-away) and 4 games against each of the other 2 divisions. Only two 2-game out-of-division roadtrips.



BYU keeps the Gonzaga rivalry and adds back the SDSU rivalry. Also, occasional basketball games against the likes of UConn, Memphis, Temple, Cincinnati, SMU, Tulsa, Houston, Wichita St., but reasonably limited cross-country travel for Olympic sports.



The AAC would be a multi-bid "power" conference in basketball. Probably 4-6 NCAA tourney bids per year.

I listened to Jason Buck on the radio this week intending to give his take on things a fair shake--and I would say in general I agree with him. It would be better to have a conference with in-conference rivals you play all the time and be playing for a conference championship. It would be better to be in a conference where you could have access to one of the big bowls should they play well enough to get there. It would be nice to expand the stadium some more and pack the place every week.



But it was interesting that when it came down to WHICH conference would give BYU what they needed, Buck backed off and basically said that is Holmoe's job to identify and work for. And in his conversation with DJ and PK, he admitted that there were valid reasons that Holmoe elected to leave the MWC and that he could give a pass on that. But he feels long term BYU needs a conference and waiting another 7 years for the P5 conferences to potentially expand again.



Of course he did end up going with the "we have to play UMass and Southern Utah" complaints and statements like "we could to to a G5 conference and play in the big bowl game (as the highest ranked conference champ) 3 times every 10 years and FORCE the P5 teams to take BYU or at least not be able to ignore BYU.



I think he does spend a little too much time remembering how great things were when he played as that was the peak of BYU years. And talked a bit too much about going undefeated (something that has very, very rarely happened in BYU history) acting like that is a reasonable expectation every couple years.



I think the 2018-19 timeframe is the next chance to have something change as TV deals start to expire and maybe conferences like the Big 12 start to second guess their "we are fine" stance if they keep missing out on the playoffs. But agree that today there isn't an option available to BYU that is better than independence. But joining a conference in the future would be a great move--if it is the right conference.

I have yet to see a solid argument for going to any non-P5 conference, including a "best of the non-p5" conference.



Benefits:

If you are undefeated or have 1 loss you have a chance to go to a NY6 game.

Play for a conference championship.

Easy scheduling.



Disadvantages:

No chance with undefeated season to get into playoffs.

Less TV exposure.

Less $$.

Rigid schedules (limited to 2-3 P5 opponents a year; play the same 8 teams every year)

Recruiting suffers



What am I missing here? I think an undefeated BYU as an independent has a pretty good chance of making a NY6 bowl, if not the playoffs if it means BYU has beaten 5-8 P5 teams, certainly that's a better resume than beating MWC or AAC teams. I also don't care about being G5 conference champs, it really just means nothing to me.

I really would love to be in "a" conference and to have conference championships to play for. But all of the TV games are great. Lots of football on ESPN and lots of basketball on BYUtv. That's great TV access that most P5 schools don't have for virtually every game of the two major sports. And the WCC has treated us quite well and I do like being part of a private Christian schools conference, lol.

I wouldn't mind a very small conference or scheduling alliance just to fill in the November games...say Boise State, Air Force, Navy, and Houston. That would leave eight games to schedule up for a nationally respected schedule. Each team negotiates its own TV deal. Of course, the problem with that is that there would be nothing in it for the other schools. So, I played by the rules and voted independent. I like the national exposure we get. The best we can do as an independent is agree to long scheduling agreements with other schools and over time improve the November schedules. As an independent, I would also be in favor of not signing any bowl deals, because there are better paying bowl games that do not get filled by conferences that lack enough qualifying teams. It leads to more intrigue, not knowing which bowl may invite you before bowl season...the way things used to be.

I'm getting used to independence. I think Holmoe has done a good job in scheduling. I kinda like the idea of a "scheduling alliance" with some of the bigger name G5 teams. The negative about being in a G5 conference is that every year we would have to play the bottom feeders. We would have to play them in a P5 conference also but our resume looks better beating a Miss. St. over beating a UTEP. Of course, with independence we get a smattering of both type of bottom feeders. So, meh, it seems it doesn't matter.



I am heartened to see that no one (yet) has voted to go back into the MW. Those of us who lived thru that debacle of being slighted on every hand have no desire to go back to being the picked-on bullies. I fear, however, that there are enough millennials now attending BYU who have no memory of Hair Thompson and his underhanded practices nor of the inability to see games on TV, who might feel joining the MW is a viable option.



This, my friends, is why we teach history: so we don't make the same stupid mistakes over again!

It is interesting that the Toledo game turned out to be such a good game and maybe our best win this year. Too bad we didn't have W Michigan on the schedule.

1967cougar wrote:
...

I am heartened to see that no one (yet) has voted to go back into the MW.

...

Funny that someone voted for that right after you posted this. :lol:

Comparing the last 6 years of being in the MWC vs. the first 6 years of Indy.



We won more games in the MWC. 56-51



We had more respect in the MWC. 42 weeks ranked in the AP 25 vs. 7



We recruited better relative to other teams while in the MWC. Average ranking 48 with 6 consensus 4 star recruits vs. 64 and 5 consensus 4 star recruits.



No question our tv, money, and SOS are better as Indy. But none of that matters if we win fewer games, unable to notch big time wins, and continue to recruit at the FBS median.



Considering that we have out recruited only 2 power 5 programs in 6 out of the last 10 years (Purdue and Wake Forest) and that there have been 50 programs better than us at beating final top 25 power teams in my 40 years on earth there is no reason to worry about playoff prospects.



Our goals are winning as many games as possible, finishing ranked, and perhaps going to a big time bowl. Being in the MWC or AAC would be better option to achieve those goals than being independent.

I was truly surprised by the landslide win by staying indy.



I would agree that having a scheduling agreement with a conference such as the AAC would be good while remaining independent, with also the attachment of bowl games we cannot currently approach.

The last six years of the MWC also featured two NFL caliber QBs. We haven't had anyone close to that at that position since. Perhaps we do again.

mormonrasta wrote:
Our goals are winning as many games as possible, finishing ranked, and perhaps going to a big time bowl. Being in the MWC or AAC would be better option to achieve those goals than being independent.

BYU's stated goals for independence are exposure and fan access.



Independence has brought that in spades compared to the WAC and MWC days, even without achieving high national rankings or playing in big-time bowl games.



ESPN compared to the Mtn.



NFL and iconic stadiums across the country against P5 opponents compared to Laramie, Albuquerque, Fort Collins, and Colorado Springs.



It isn't close.



But, I agree that independence hasn't helped much to finish higher in the rankings, reach big-time bowl games, or improve recruiting. And home game attendance has declined (though 30K in Phoenix is a big deal...). But, I don't think those are the primary goals of independence.

I look at BYU Football as having a three-fold mission.



1. Be a good ambassador of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

2. Gain and expand TV exposure.

3. Earn enough revenue to fund the athletic department.



In every possible scenario these goals are fulfilled better by being independent than by being in a G5 conference.

hawkwing wrote:
I look at BYU Football as having a three-fold mission.



1. Be a good ambassador of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

2. Gain and expand TV exposure.

3. Earn enough revenue to fund the athletic department.



In every possible scenario these goals are fulfilled better by being independent than by being in a G5 conference.

This. There are a couple lesser metrics in which a G5 conference might be better but it isn't even close.

I would say that the MWC was better for BYU fans in Utah, and Independence is better for BYU fans everywhere else. BYU has partially given up the state to Utah in order to build up the fan base nationally.

Mars wrote:
I would say that the MWC was better for BYU fans in Utah, and Independence is better for BYU fans everywhere else. BYU has partially given up the state to Utah in order to build up the fan base nationally.

I'm not sure how the MWC was better for the fans in Utah... Is it because there were home games in November for a conference championship? Because Big 10 teams, SEC teams and Big 12 teams in LES any time of year is "better" than playing Colorado State in November for a conference championship that people will soon enough forget

The two key things I think BYU needs to take it to the next level (i.e., be a top 15-20 team year in year out) are:



1) Good matchups in the late season



and



2) Recruiting better talent



They only way to get these two things, IMO, is join a P5 conference. So, I say, if BYU can't join a P5 conference, then staying independent makes sense.