Who is the best basketball coach in Utah?

Men's NCAA Div 1 Coaches, who's the best in Utah?

Ha ha ha

Pope. Sad but true, IMO.



He took BYU's throw-away players and beat us. I don't care how inspired or motivated they were that should never happen. Pope got his crew ready, emotionally and schematically. We got out played and out coached.

So Mark Pope is the best coach in the state because of 1 win? That makes sense.

frdbtr wrote:
So Mark Pope is the best coach in the state because of 1 win? That makes sense.

When all you have is a small sample size for him, it's hard to argue otherwise.

But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

I'll probably get flamed for this but just because he coaches our hated rival is no reason to leave of Crisco if we are truly being objective. The first time his team beat us he had no business doing so. We came out flat and then couldn't recover. Last year we came out and got down by a lot and couldn't recover enough to pull out the win. Is he a weenie? Of course, what yewt isn't? But how does a bad coach get a Poetl to come play in SLC. And if I'm not mistaken Crisco has recruited well by getting a nice mix of local talent with others who have been missed by better programs and then done pretty darn well in the PAC considering how low Jackoletti and Boilin' took them before he arrived.



I can't remember the last time that I honestly felt the our staff outcoached and won a game we should not have won. Maybe Gonzaga on the road last year (or was it two years running now). Outside of that I just don't see Rose doing much with what he has in the sense of preparing them for the game at hand and developing them over the long haul toward the NBA. We sure do fill up the European and other foreign leagues though...



Go Cougs!!!

J. Child

Ammon, ID

ABYUFAN wrote:
But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

I didn't include the Utah coach because anyone who is too scared to play other local teams of the same caliber is obviously disqualified from the poll. That being said, I think it's pretty clear he's a better basketball coach than Rose in what he has accomplished in the games he's not afraid to play.

frdbtr wrote:
So Mark Pope is the best coach in the state because of 1 win? That makes sense.

Pope also helped BYU win a bunch of games.

hawkwing wrote:

But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

I didn't include the Utah coach because anyone who is too scared to play other local teams of the same caliber is obviously disqualified from the poll. That being said, I think it's pretty clear he's a better basketball coach than Rose in what he has accomplished in the games he's not afraid to play.

FWIW I agree that coach 20K at a time needs be left off the list. However, if you are factoring for best coach in the state deducting points for dropping games that you should have won, then Pope has deductions for two "should have wons," and only one "look what I did" wins. As for the "BYU castoffs, I don't think that it is fair to call them that, they left the school to find more playing time, BYU didn't make them leave. Toolson really would have been nice this year, but who else that left would have earned meaningful minutes here? They left and good for them. They circled the calendar to win that game and good for them, but we win more games this year with them not starting for us, and I'm not willing to trade one win for a bunch of losses later on, like they are apparently willing to do.

vancouvercougar wrote:

So Mark Pope is the best coach in the state because of 1 win? That makes sense.

Pope also helped BYU win a bunch of games.

He may end up as the best coach in the state... I just don't see him as there yet.

ABYUFAN wrote:
But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

Fair point, but how many "big" games have we seen Rose lose? How many games get circled and we go on to lose them?



It's certainly too early to tell, but in a head to head match up, Rose lost.

Gunk wrote:

But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

Fair point, but how many "big" games have we seen Rose lose? How many games get circled and we go on to lose them?



It's certainly too early to tell, but in a head to head match up, Rose lost.

Isn't it head to head Rose won one (last year 85-54) and lost one (this year)... and Pope has less wins now than Rose had in his first season as BYU's head coach... and Rose took over a program that had won only 9 games the season before. Honestly, there is an issue of the recency effect here...but for heaven sakes look at the guy's bio http://byucougars.com/staff/m-basketball/dave-rose. I don't see how this is even a discussion.

ABYUFAN wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:
But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

Fair point, but how many "big" games have we seen Rose lose? How many games get circled and we go on to lose them?



It's certainly too early to tell, but in a head to head match up, Rose lost.

Isn't it head to head Rose won one (last year 85-54) and lost one (this year)... and Pope has less wins now than Rose had in his first season as BYU's head coach... and Rose took over a program that had won only 9 games the season before. Honestly, there is an issue of the recency effect here...but for heaven sakes look at the guy's bio http://byucougars.com/staff/m-basketball/dave-rose. I don't see how this is even a discussion.

It's a discussion because we lost to UVU. Something that should never ever happen. It's also a discussion because Pope did it with a bunch of BYU castaways. Meanwhile, our "all-star" team can barely beat Weber State.



I've been one of Rose's biggest defenders. He's accomplished a lot and I honestly think he was a better coach 5 years ago than he is today. The results certainly seem to indicate such as well. Maybe it's because we don't have Rice? Maybe it's because we're in a more guard heavy conference and our guards don't stack up? I don't know. I do know, the talent has gone up, but the results have gone down. That's coaching.

I'd say going through and surviving one of the deadliest forms of cancer can also change ones priorities, and understandably so.

Nielsen was told to leave... and he dropped 26 on BYU in the head to head. That's nearly double his YTD average after 9 games. He dropped 28 on Utah in a loss. He's motivated at times.

Gunk wrote:

Gunk wrote:

But how many wins has that team traded for that one win over BYU? The could (should?) have had two PAC 12 wins after the BYU win, but couldn't get it done. Clearly they had that game circled on their calendar and won it - good for them. But shame on them for dropping the Utah and WSU games afterward. Clearly it's Rose, head and shoulders above everybody else, and a bunch of "not there yet" guys.

Fair point, but how many "big" games have we seen Rose lose? How many games get circled and we go on to lose them?



It's certainly too early to tell, but in a head to head match up, Rose lost.

Isn't it head to head Rose won one (last year 85-54) and lost one (this year)... and Pope has less wins now than Rose had in his first season as BYU's head coach... and Rose took over a program that had won only 9 games the season before. Honestly, there is an issue of the recency effect here...but for heaven sakes look at the guy's bio http://byucougars.com/staff/m-basketball/dave-rose. I don't see how this is even a discussion.

It's a discussion because we lost to UVU. Something that should never ever happen. It's also a discussion because Pope did it with a bunch of BYU castaways. Meanwhile, our "all-star" team can barely beat Weber State.



I've been one of Rose's biggest defenders. He's accomplished a lot and I honestly think he was a better coach 5 years ago than he is today. The results certainly seem to indicate such as well. Maybe it's because we don't have Rice? Maybe it's because we're in a more guard heavy conference and our guards don't stack up? I don't know. I do know, the talent has gone up, but the results have gone down. That's coaching.

I know we're beating a dead horse now and I apologize, but according to this poll the guy who has never not won 20 games as a head coach for years and years is now a worse coach than a guy who has not won 20 games as a head coach... total...because of one game.

AmmonCougar1 wrote:
I can't remember the last time that I honestly felt the our staff outcoached and won a game we should not have won. Maybe Gonzaga on the road last year (or was it two years running now). Outside of that I just don't see Rose doing much with what he has in the sense of preparing them for the game at hand and developing them over the long haul toward the NBA. We sure do fill up the European and other foreign leagues though...

My feelings exactly. I believe that Rose has done wonderfully at recruiting and receives high marks in that regard, but often I see instances where I believe we are out-coached and that someone like Mark Few would do better with the same resources. Rose is definitely good, but I don't believe he'll ever rise to the ranks of those we believe are the best at basketball.

One is at BYU. Another is at UVU. The resources aren't even close to being equal, thus neither should the game scores.

UVU keeps losing, including to teams we beat. It was a stupid fluke.