Are you in yet?

Taysom is objectively so bad. Anyone watching this game (Cincinnati) has to see that. He has had all day to throw and is underthrowing and overthrowing everyone. The coaches are in CYA mode not putting in Tanner (who would look so much better) to not prove they made the wrong choice in the first place. It's disgusting to watch.

At this point I don't know why fans are wasting any more energy on the QB controversy. We're on the soft part of our schedule, the last 3 games at home. Like I said before, barring injury, Taysom will start the rest of the way. And then he'll be gone. I think, or at least hope, that Tanner has watched and learned all he can of Detmer's offense from the sidelines. That should pay off in the future.

Taysom was 7/7 on third downs.

Yeah, I don't get this. Taysom will win out, or Tanner will. Both are more than capable against the remaining 3 teams. Taysom actually had a pretty good game vs Cinci.



What I don't understand is why the Ty Detmer offense has such a hard time getting into the endzone from <5 yards away. Can't believe all the times we've been stood up at the goal line.



Here's an idea, why not a jump pass on the Utah 2 point conversion (or ever).

I wanted Tanner from the beginning, but the coaches went with Taysom. I was ok with the decision then and even though he has played poorly in some games, he never played poorly enough to be benched. He still hasn't.



At this point there is no reason to make a move.

It was frustrating to see so many throws miss their guys, and deep balls that were so under thrown. Personally I think Tanner may have been better this year, but I'm over it. No good games from Mangum prove that he would have done better than Hill this year. It is unproductive and unnecessary to pretend to know the answer to the "what ifs".



When Mangum is successful next year I am going to chalk it up to him settling into Detmer's system and the coaches getting the program headed in the right direction. I've enjoyed the Taysom era and I'm not going to end it with a bad taste in my mouth.

I still think poor offensive line and receiver play is the reason for the throw games struggles. Tanner looked really good last year when his bad throws were caught by receivers who were held accountable by their coach to catch the ball if they were thrown at. Last years offensive line was so much better than this years. They looked really good against Mich State but have been blown up by every defensive line other than them. It is really disappointing to see them digress since that performance. Both these groups will need to dramatically improve next year in order for Tanner to be successful. I can't wait to see who will be blamed next year if the Throw game continues to struggle since we can't blame Ty legend and Tanner will be playing.

I will have no problem blaming Ty Legend if the offense continues to be vanilla. What will be our excuse next season? Oh, we're settling in a new QB, he needs to learn the offense first hand, give him 5-6 game experience with the offense...sigh...

byufan4ever wrote:
I will have no problem blaming Ty Legend if the offense continues to be vanilla. What will be our excuse next season? Oh, we're settling in a new QB, he needs to learn the offense first hand, give him 5-6 game experience with the offense...sigh...

The offense is still painfully conservative/vanilla. I don't know if it is because Ty doesn't want to introduce too much too early to them, or if he is afraid of trying things because the offensive line sucks. They rarely take chances. BYU blows out Cincinnati if the offense actually opened up. Course I guess in order to throw for 300 yards per game, you have to have receivers who will sell out in order to go get a ball thrown to them and this years group has not shown they are willing to do that. I watch a lot of college football and it is shocking how soft BYU's receivers are. Watch a pro game and you will see why Austin Collie was the only receiver from BYU to play pro in the last 30 years. (not counting tight ends).

frdbtr wrote:
Watch a pro game and you will see why Austin Collie was the only receiver from BYU to play pro in the last 30 years. (not counting tight ends).

:skeptic:



Off the top of my head, in the last 30 years:



Todd Watkins had 3 seasons in the NFL.

Kaipo Maguire had at least 2 season in the NFL.

One of the Bellini brothers (Mark?) played WR with the Colts a couple seasons.

Margin Hooks had a season with the Dolphins.

Reno Mahe was a WR at BYU before his NFL/gas-stealing/coaching days.

Ever heard of Glen Kozlowski?



There may be others, but those are the ones I can remember.

My observation is that when they go hurry up TH seems to throw better. It is probably because he doesn't have to make a bunch of reads as those plays usually call for a quick throw too. I may not be but it seems that way to me.

Isola wrote:
It was frustrating to see so many throws miss their guys, and deep balls that were so under thrown. Personally I think Tanner may have been better this year, but I'm over it. No good games from Mangum prove that he would have done better than Hill this year. It is unproductive and unnecessary to pretend to know the answer to the "what ifs".



When Mangum is successful next year I am going to chalk it up to him settling into Detmer's system and the coaches getting the program headed in the right direction. I've enjoyed the Taysom era and I'm not going to end it with a bad taste in my mouth.

Sums it up well. Thanks Isola.

frdbtr wrote:
Watch a pro game...

People still watch the NFL?

BroncoBot wrote:

Watch a pro game...

People still watch the NFL?

A few. If you like your football with an extra helping of ego, politics, and excess.

snoscythe wrote:

Watch a pro game and you will see why Austin Collie was the only receiver from BYU to play pro in the last 30 years. (not counting tight ends).

:skeptic:



Off the top of my head, in the last 30 years:



Todd Watkins had 3 seasons in the NFL.

Kaipo Maguire had at least 2 season in the NFL.

One of the Bellini brothers (Mark?) played WR with the Colts a couple seasons.

Margin Hooks had a season with the Dolphins.

Reno Mahe was a WR at BYU before his NFL/gas-stealing/coaching days.

Ever heard of Glen Kozlowski?



There may be others, but those are the ones I can remember.

With the exception of Koz, how many of those guys actually saw the field. Reno was a punt returner but never played as receiver. Plus the 30 years thing was an exaggeration but it is not too far off. All of those other receivers that you mentioned were head and shoulders more physical than we have seen (with the exception of Collie) in forever.

Brayden Green wrote:
Taysom is objectively so bad. Anyone watching this game (Cincinnati) has to see that. He has had all day to throw and is underthrowing and overthrowing everyone. The coaches are in CYA mode not putting in Tanner (who would look so much better) to not prove they made the wrong choice in the first place. It's disgusting to watch.

Tanner was so wonderful to watch vs Michigan and Missouri in 2015. Can't wait to watch the repeat in 2017. Tanner will be on his a$$ a lot due to limited mobility. Always a trade off.

SenorCougar wrote:

Taysom is objectively so bad. Anyone watching this game (Cincinnati) has to see that. He has had all day to throw and is underthrowing and overthrowing everyone. The coaches are in CYA mode not putting in Tanner (who would look so much better) to not prove they made the wrong choice in the first place. It's disgusting to watch.

Tanner was so wonderful to watch vs Michigan and Missouri in 2015. Can't wait to watch the repeat in 2017. Tanner will be on his a$$ a lot due to limited mobility. Always a trade off.

Since you went there, the first half of Utah likely cost us that game as well.

Tanner Mangum will be a great BYU QB but this is not his year. I believe that the coaches looked at the 2 qb's in practice and made the choice that would help us get the most wins that we could get this year. Taysom Hill has not been perfect but his skillset has helped us win games that we would have lost without it. He has had to work with crappy receivers, and a bad offensive line. I sure hope that we find a way to get a good offensive line next year and someone coaches some toughness into our receivers or we are going to be in trouble next year whether Tanner "fits Ty's system better" or not.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
Watch a pro game and you will see why Austin Collie was the only receiver from BYU to play pro in the last 30 years. (not counting tight ends).

:skeptic:



Off the top of my head, in the last 30 years:



Todd Watkins had 3 seasons in the NFL.

Kaipo Maguire had at least 2 season in the NFL.

One of the Bellini brothers (Mark?) played WR with the Colts a couple seasons.

Margin Hooks had a season with the Dolphins.

Reno Mahe was a WR at BYU before his NFL/gas-stealing/coaching days.

Ever heard of Glen Kozlowski?



There may be others, but those are the ones I can remember.

With the exception of Koz, how many of those guys actually saw the field. Reno was a punt returner but never played as receiver. Plus the 30 years thing was an exaggeration but it is not too far off. All of those other receivers that you mentioned were head and shoulders more physical than we have seen (with the exception of Collie) in forever.

Collie caught 179 passes in the NFL. Every other BYU WR caught a total of 180. Here's the breakdown:



Golden Richards- 122

Glen Kozlowski- 32

Mark Bellini- 10

Todd Watkins-8

Phil Odle- 8

*Brad Anderson- 4

Margin Hooks- 0

Kaipo McGuire- 0



*Apparently, he played for BYU before transferring to Arizona.



Note: Reno Mahe was a running back in the NFL.



Bottom line, BYU doesn't have much of a WR tradition at all. Our passing game lives and dies with our QBs and TEs

mormonrasta wrote:

snoscythe wrote:

Watch a pro game and you will see why Austin Collie was the only receiver from BYU to play pro in the last 30 years. (not counting tight ends).

:skeptic:



Off the top of my head, in the last 30 years:



Todd Watkins had 3 seasons in the NFL.

Kaipo Maguire had at least 2 season in the NFL.

One of the Bellini brothers (Mark?) played WR with the Colts a couple seasons.

Margin Hooks had a season with the Dolphins.

Reno Mahe was a WR at BYU before his NFL/gas-stealing/coaching days.

Ever heard of Glen Kozlowski?



There may be others, but those are the ones I can remember.

With the exception of Koz, how many of those guys actually saw the field. Reno was a punt returner but never played as receiver. Plus the 30 years thing was an exaggeration but it is not too far off. All of those other receivers that you mentioned were head and shoulders more physical than we have seen (with the exception of Collie) in forever.

Collie caught 179 passes in the NFL. Every other BYU WR caught a total of 180. Here's the breakdown:



Golden Richards- 122

Glen Kozlowski- 32

Mark Bellini- 10

Todd Watkins-8

Phil Odle- 8

*Brad Anderson- 4

Margin Hooks- 0

Kaipo McGuire- 0



*Apparently, he played for BYU before transferring to Arizona.



Note: Reno Mahe was a running back in the NFL.



Bottom line, BYU doesn't have much of a WR tradition at all. Our passing game lives and dies with our QBs and TEs

Thank you for your stats. I agree we need to develop more TE's again. I have watched a bunch of BYU football over the last couple of decades and I have never seen BYU's receivers so soft. Even guys who never played in the NFL were tough and ran really precise routes. Guys like Eric Drage who was too "short and slow" for the NFL were fantastic receivers because you knew if they were thrown the ball, they were going to get it or no one else would. They ran precise routes and got open because of that. Our receivers this year couldn't catch a cold and turn the wrong way on a route more often then not. I don't know if the route issue is because the offense is still new, but it happens in every game. You would think that this many games in, they would know the offense by now. I have never been a fan of Cahoon as a coach but I do want our guys to succeed. If next years receivers don't look better than they do this year, I would be in the fire Cahoon camp and get someone here who can light a fire under them.