How would you vote?

Which way would you vote?

Duh

assuming I live in Utah and Hillary won't win, I vote for anyone else so when the electors gather for her coronation, er, election, the % of total vote to her will be lower.

I'm a Trump man. Have been since Rubio dropped out. I have been around "men" all my life. Nothing he has said or done is any worse than most men I know. That doesn't mean I approve of his blunders or that I think he is a person of stellar character. But when I listen to his words and when I think of the needed shake up he will bring to DC, I'm firmly in his corner. Mitt Romney, Glen Beck, and the Deseret News have about as much of my respect as Harry Reid does.

I am 100% in the stop Hillary camp. The only candidate that has any chance doing that is Donald Trump. Trump is a non-political outsider that will end the corruption, secure our borders, stop kissing the a$$ of all the Muslim nations that want to destroy Israel. Trump is not owned by Wall Street or foreign govt's. All you McMullin supporters are living in "never never land" - McMullin is simply a spoiler. If he wanted to run with the big dogs he should have entered the Primaries like all the other candidates when they began.



God Bless America!

Ddawg wrote:
I am 100% in the stop Hillary camp. The only candidate that has any chance doing that is Donald Trump. Trump is a non-political outsider that will end the corruption, secure our borders, stop kissing the a$$ of all the Muslim nations that want to destroy Israel. Trump is not owned by Wall Street or foreign govt's. All you McMullin supporters are living in "never never land" - McMullin is simply a spoiler. If he wanted to run with the big dogs he should have entered the Primaries like all the other candidates when they began.



God Bless America!

Nobody voting for McMullin thinks he can win (or at least, no reasonable person believes this). For most of us, this vote comes down to one thing: telling the world that we are not okay with the choices we've been given. Holding your nose and voting for Trump will never be seen as anything but a vote for Trump and all that he stands for. There is no communicating nuance in a yes/no vote. Hillary being evil and bad for America appears to be a given, Trump being evil and bad for America is a toss-up and maybe leaning toward a given as well. However, Trump comes with the additional baggage of being bad for the conservative cause and the future of politics in our county. I respect that you think Hillary is a greater evil than all that, but I am not so sure.

Sammich wrote:

Nobody voting for McMullin thinks he can win (or at least, no reasonable person believes this).

Yep. You're simply lodging a protest vote.

Sammich wrote:

For most of us, this vote comes down to one thing: telling the world that we are not okay with the choices we've been given.

Ok, let's look at that. A legitimate, democratic primary process was held. Trump won that primary process, legitimately, and your candidate lost. Trump set a GOP primary record getting more votes than any other in GOP history - and you reject that. So, you are "showing the world" - you refuse to abide by the will of the GOP voters.

Sammich wrote:

Holding your nose and voting for Trump will never be seen as anything but a vote for Trump and all that he stands for.

What does Trump stand for? He stands for jobs, re-energizing the economy, shutting down and controlling our borders as any sovereign nation should, nominating Conservative judges to the Supreme Court (he has a list of 20 judges he will pull from that he got from the Heritage Foundation), rooting out corruption in the IRS, corruption in the DOJ, corruption in Homeland Security, and corruption in the FBI. Trump stands for controlling out national debt (remember, as a business man, Trump actually had to balance the books and operate within a real budget). Trump stands for law and order. And, Trump will repeal Obamacare.



Which of the above do you disagree with?

Sammich wrote:

There is no communicating nuance in a yes/no vote. Hillary being evil and bad for America appears to be a given,

As much as you know about Hillary being corrupt - she is far worse. She is has committed more felonies and circumvented the law, lied more, taken fore graft - is owned by Wall Street and FOREIGN Govts - than any other presidential candidate in U.S. history. She should be in jail - period.

Sammich wrote:

Trump being evil and bad for America is a toss-up and maybe leaning toward a given as well.

There is a difference between being a rich playboy - sleeping with women - and pure evil. Hillary has conspired and acted to circumvent our laws (committing numerous felonies), ignoring our national security, people have died because of her - and she keeps lying about he role and causes of those deaths, Hillary keeps lying about serious national matters - and its, and lies, and lies. That is evil. What has Trump ever done that approaches Hillary's actions? He has a potty mouth? He was a rich playboy that slept around? Sorry - that's done in Hollywood, the NFL, the NBA, and college campuses everyday. Is it right? No. But it is not the pure evil that Hillary has engaged in her entire life.

Sammich wrote:

However, Trump comes with the additional baggage of being bad for the conservative cause and the future of politics in our county.

Disagree. Trump has not been a pure Conservative - and is not a pure Conservative. He's switched political parties about 5 times. But he is now a committed (pro-Life) GOP guy. Remember, Ronald Reagan did not join the GOP till he was 51years old. George W. Bush was never a Conservative - he was a pretty big spender.



Also, what baggage? Trump is icky, arrogant and gross? That Trump slept around in his younger days? He's not a "Playa" anymore. That audio tape is 11 years old. Also, what are you going to do when you get a Gay GOP candidate vs a libtard dimocrat candidate in a Congressional race? Are you going to not vote for the Gay GOP candidate because you disagree with their sexual choices and let a liberal socialist democrat win? Not me my man. I will always support the GOP/Conservative candidate over the libtard dimocrat socialist in the final analysis.

Sammich wrote:

I respect that you think Hillary is a greater evil than all that, but I am not so sure.

There is no contest. Trump is a loud mouth, rough, uncouth, and thin skinned. But Trump actually does love America and wants to protect the American people by controlling our borders, following the law, re-energizing the economy - creating real jobs, take care of veterans by fixing the VA hospital system (a disgrace).

I think the recent news about the Obamacare premiums and Hillary's utter and undeniable corruption that may be starting to stick to her campaign. I think the polls tightening across the nation (ABC had Hillary up +12 last week and now has Trump up +1) hurt not only Hillary, but McMullin as well. I think many GOP voters will, as Pence suggested and asked they do, "come home" to GOP and vote for Trump. Even in Utah.



I'm not sure I'll vote for McMullin and I'm still committed to not voting for Trump nor Hillary, but I think Trump will win Utah.

speaking of premiums, remember when...


306778350574260224

Are Democrats so short sighted that they believe all their good intentions will simply take care of themselves? Have they not figured out there are actual consequences to actions? This, to me, was stunning. Of COURSE premiums are going to go up!!!



but, I don't think they are stupid. In fact, I think this is a well orchestrated attempt to get our country to single payer, which would just make things worse.

Ddawg wrote:

For most of us, this vote comes down to one thing: telling the world that we are not okay with the choices we've been given.

Ok, let's look at that. A legitimate, democratic primary process was held. Trump won that primary process, legitimately, and your candidate lost. Trump set a GOP primary record getting more votes than any other in GOP history - and you reject that. So, you are "showing the world" - you refuse to abide by the will of the GOP voters.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree on all the other stuff, as I have no interest in debating your wall of words on the virtues of Trump and the vices of Clinton. We probably align more than not and differ mostly on the importance we place on the various factors at play. But my brain is struggling to consider why you would think the above was a good argument---and I feel compelled to understand your reasoning to make it. Isn't the whole point of a protest vote to show that your preferences are different than the masses, and try to influence future elections with that vote? Are you seriously arguing that voters have to abide by the will of the party they aligned most with in the primaries?

Sammich wrote:

Are you seriously arguing that voters have to abide by the will of the party they aligned most with in the primaries?

Your darn right I'm arguing that. It happens in just about every presidential primary. Bitter struggles are fought and hard things are said. Eventually 1 candidate emerges. Both former candidates and the party members have to put aside deeply hurt feelings and align behind the 1 candidate that won the primary and unite. Lincoln said "A house divided against itself cannot stand." He was right.



Pure and simple - you McMulling folks are protesting against the democratic process of the GOP primary - because you don't like the guy that won. I get it. But, there is a time to unite against real corruption and real evil - that is the dimocrat party. When you stack Trump up against Hillary there is no comparison - none.



Hillary is absolutely a Gadianton robber, along with her husband and the corrupt libtard dimocrat party. Wikileaks has exposed that. Trump will drain the corrupt Washington DC swamp.



It's been posted here - someone had a theory that Trump was a Manchurian candidate - part of a Clinton conspiracy to disrupt the GOP primary. Well, 35,000+ insider dimocrat emails later from Wikileaks and not 1 mention of that theory. It's not true. Not at all.



Good luck.

Ddawg wrote:

Are you seriously arguing that voters have to abide by the will of the party they aligned most with in the primaries?

Your darn right I'm arguing that. It happens in just about every presidential primary. Bitter struggles are fought and hard things are said. Eventually 1 candidate emerges. Both former candidates and the party members have to put aside deeply hurt feelings and align behind the 1 candidate that won the primary and unite. Lincoln said "A house divided against itself cannot stand." He was right.



Pure and simple - you McMulling folks are protesting against the democratic process of the GOP primary - because you don't like the guy that won. I get it. But, there is a time to unite against real corruption and real evil - that is the dimocrat party. When you stack Trump up against Hillary there is no comparison - none.



Hillary is absolutely a Gadianton robber, along with her husband and the corrupt libtard dimocrat party. Wikileaks has exposed that. Trump will drain the corrupt Washington DC swamp.



It's been posted here - someone had a theory that Trump was a Manchurian candidate - part of a Clinton conspiracy to disrupt the GOP primary. Well, 35,000+ insider dimocrat emails later from Wikileaks and not 1 mention of that theory. It's not true. Not at all.



Good luck.

I guess that's the line we disagree on then. I agree that a party will never get a perfect candidate for everyone and there will have to be concessions for any general election. But if the party votes for evil then the voters are under no obligation to back that evil, even if the other side represents a different sort of evil. You do not believe that Trump's evil is equal to Hillary's and you downplay or ignore the things he has done and said, likely because you weigh the specific political evils of Hillary as being worse than the political evils of Trump, which are many. I do not see eye to eye with you on that point and likely never will with that type of reckoning being so different between us.

Trump is evil. People who vote for him will make as many excuses as is takes to assuage their conscience.

Mars wrote:
Trump is evil. People who vote for him will make as many excuses as is takes to assuage their conscience.

Ha ha ha! Another ridiculous, childish statement. Do you really think a man with the stature and integrity of Rudy Giuliani, would endorse and stand by Donald Trump if he was the kind of person you describe? Not a chance. Step back from the ledge.



Even Orrin Hatch realizes what's at stake here and has reaffirmed his endorsement and support for Trump. Orrin Hatch says he knows Hillary - and he's voting for Trump.



Hatch:

"Though Hatch described McMullin as "sincere," he said he thought voting for any third-party candidate was a vote directly for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton."



Repeat - Sen. Orrin Hatch said a vote for any third-party candidate was a vote for Hillary. You and any McMullin voter is supporting and voting for the corrupt Hillary. Hatch said voting for Evan McMullin is throwing your vote away.



http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/sen-orrin-hatch-reaffirms-support-for-trump-says-he-won/article_6429b90a-0afd-5f97-b029-7ca56223b9b3.html

I think with the collapse we're seeing of Hillary that the more the perception grows that Trump can win, the lower the chance that McMullin can win Utah drops.



Hillary is beginning to crater. People aren't necessarily going to Trump, but they are leaving Hillary. But will enough leave?



I'm still not voting for either, but I'm thinking that Trump is going to win Utah.



Anyone who votes for Hillary is voting for blatant corruption that will damage our country greatly. Those people are contributing to the downfall of our nation. I have no problem with those who feel they need to or should or will vote for Trump. But it is simply inexcusable to vote for Hillary.

[quote="SpiffCoug"

Anyone who votes for Hillary is voting for blatant corruption that will damage our country greatly. Those people are contributing to the downfall of our nation.

[/quote]



Agree with you 100%.

SpiffCoug wrote:
I think with the collapse we're seeing of Hillary that the more the perception grows that Trump can win, the lower the chance that McMullin can win Utah drops.



Hillary is beginning to crater. People aren't necessarily going to Trump, but they are leaving Hillary. But will enough leave?



I'm still not voting for either, but I'm thinking that Trump is going to win Utah.



Anyone who votes for Hillary is voting for blatant corruption that will damage our country greatly. Those people are contributing to the downfall of our nation. I have no problem with those who feel they need to or should or will vote for Trump. But it is simply inexcusable to vote for Hillary.

I agree with this, however, of course I feel it's equally inexcusable to vote for Trump. It's been quite interesting to see over the last few weeks how many Utahns have experienced Stockholm syndrome and have progressed from "I'll plug my nose and vote for whom I consider to be the lesser of two evils," (even though I believe he is truly the greater of two evils) to "I'm a proud and voracious supporter of Donald Trump."

hawkwing wrote:
It's been quite interesting to see over the last few weeks how many Utahns have experienced Stockholm syndrome and have progressed from "I'll plug my nose and vote for whom I consider to be the lesser of two evils," (even though I believe he is truly the greater of two evils) to "I'm a proud and voracious supporter of Donald Trump."

This has been the disturbing thing to me as well. I've seen the same movement in my liberal friends also: they've moved from, "Well, I'd rather have Sanders, but even a corrupt Hillary is better than Trump" to "Hillary is a wonderful person being unfairly oppressed by bad, mean men!" I totally get the nose-plug vote, I've done it before myself. But the amount of self-justification being used to wholeheartedly endorse what was previously seen as mixed evil, on both sides, is actually more terrifying than all the wrongness of the two candidates combined.

Sammich wrote:

It's been quite interesting to see over the last few weeks how many Utahns have experienced Stockholm syndrome and have progressed from "I'll plug my nose and vote for whom I consider to be the lesser of two evils," (even though I believe he is truly the greater of two evils) to "I'm a proud and voracious supporter of Donald Trump."

This has been the disturbing thing to me as well. I've seen the same movement in my liberal friends also: they've moved from, "Well, I'd rather have Sanders, but even a corrupt Hillary is better than Trump" to "Hillary is a wonderful person being unfairly oppressed by bad, mean men!" I totally get the nose-plug vote, I've done it before myself. But the amount of self-justification being used to wholeheartedly endorse what was previously seen as mixed evil, on both sides, is actually more terrifying than all the wrongness of the two candidates combined.

Great point, the same is going on exactly with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

hawkwing wrote:

.... even though I believe he is truly the greater of two evils .....

I've noticed you're quick to call Trump "evil." I've wondered, exactly what he has done that you consider "evil." I also wonder how much "evil" you've been around - what your definition of "evil" is.



I've been around real evil people - close up. One of them was Angelo Buono, the Hillside Strangler. For a year I woke him up every morning, got him dressed for court, took him to court, read all his outgoing and incoming mail. I spent a lot of time with him. He was very evil.



So, exactly what has Donald Trump done that you consider so evil? Curious.