offense is too slow...

too slow and too deliberate. I think the offense should be in hurry up, or at least have some semblance of urgency from here on. I used to think it was prevent defense (and I'm sure that was part of it) against az, uu, and ucla. But after today's 4th quarter (even with the ints) I'm convinced BYU would be scoring more points if they would put defenses on their heels and speed up the game. BYU has been giving opposing defenses way too much time to get set. I know that detmer is using that time to figure out the defense and by using motion, but it has not been to BYU'S or Taysom's benefit. Taysom is an entirely different qb when the offense is moving down the field rapidly and I wonder if psychologically he is putting too much thought before the snap instead of simply playing the game.



thoughts?

Taysom does seem more comfortable in the hurry up. I would like to see them increase the tempo but not necessarily go no huddle.

.... for Taysom to run. Tanner would do just fine.



There is nothing wrong with this offense, especially at BYU. This offense belongs at BYU. It is also an elite offense. You will see this offense all day long on Sundays, with the same mixture of play calls. We have the wrong quarterback running the right offense. If he is out of place then that is something that should be considered. It isn't like we have a true freshman on the bench. We have a freaking all American on the bench, whom this offense would suit perfectly. A move absolutely has to be made at quarterback. I don't know what else you need to see at this point. Everything on offense was great except for the quarterback today. Maybe a couple false starts... That's it.

Brayden Green wrote:
.... for Taysom to run. Tanner would do just fine.



There is nothing wrong with this offense, especially at BYU. This offense belongs at BYU. It is also an elite offense. You will see this offense all day long on Sundays, with the same mixture of play calls. We have the wrong quarterback running the right offense. If he is out of place then that is something that should be considered. It isn't like we have a true freshman on the bench. We have a freaking all American on the bench, whom this offense would suit perfectly. A move absolutely has to be made at quarterback. I don't know what else you need to see at this point. Everything on offense was great except for the quarterback today. Maybe a couple false starts... That's it.

Call up Ty Detmer and let him know because he obviously doesn't see it the way you do. Or maybe we should fire the coach so that we can get someone who thinks the way we do.

The offense scored 32 points today and lost. That is unacceptable defense. Like I said in another post, if the defense doesn't give up 88, 86 and 99 yard TD drives BYU wins.

frdbtr wrote:
The offense scored 32 points today and lost. That is unacceptable defense. Like I said in another post, if the defense doesn't give up 88, 86 and 99 yard TD drives BYU wins.

At first, I was loving the field position, but I was not loving the drives that WVU was putting together. BYU defense is NOT great at finding that safety valve. Most of the time there was great coverage and then BYU would get burned on a dink n dunk pass to the RB from the backfield, same thing happened too often in the UCLA game.

BroncoBot wrote:

The offense scored 32 points today and lost. That is unacceptable defense. Like I said in another post, if the defense doesn't give up 88, 86 and 99 yard TD drives BYU wins.

At first, I was loving the field position, but I was not loving the drives that WVU was putting together. BYU defense is NOT great at finding that safety valve. Most of the time there was great coverage and then BYU would get burned on a dink n dunk pass to the RB from the backfield, same thing happened too often in the UCLA game.

BYU's dline is not getting pressure on the QB's with just 4 so they are bringing linebackers which is leaving open spots for the RB's to run when they hit safety valve passes. It is a weakness and I'm sure that the WVU coaches were excited to exploit it. I still think this team can be very good offensively and defensively but they need to clean up the problems. Unfortunately, we don't have any MWC teams to pad the schedule with while the team learns how to win.

frdbtr wrote:

frdbtr wrote:
The offense scored 32 points today and lost. That is unacceptable defense. Like I said in another post, if the defense doesn't give up 88, 86 and 99 yard TD drives BYU wins.

At first, I was loving the field position, but I was not loving the drives that WVU was putting together. BYU defense is NOT great at finding that safety valve. Most of the time there was great coverage and then BYU would get burned on a dink n dunk pass to the RB from the backfield, same thing happened too often in the UCLA game.

BYU's dline is not getting pressure on the QB's with just 4 so they are bringing linebackers which is leaving open spots for the RB's to run when they hit safety valve passes. It is a weakness and I'm sure that the WVU coaches were excited to exploit it. I still think this team can be very good offensively and defensively but they need to clean up the problems. Unfortunately, we don't have any MWC teams to pad the schedule with while the team learns how to win.

If this defense puts any consistent pressure on QBs, I believe we are 4-0 right now. BYU has been getting burned by QBs having the better part of an afternoon to make a pass. Arizona was the only time that BYU got to the QB even somewhat consistently. Lack of pass rush is concerning.

BroncoBot wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

The offense scored 32 points today and lost. That is unacceptable defense. Like I said in another post, if the defense doesn't give up 88, 86 and 99 yard TD drives BYU wins.

At first, I was loving the field position, but I was not loving the drives that WVU was putting together. BYU defense is NOT great at finding that safety valve. Most of the time there was great coverage and then BYU would get burned on a dink n dunk pass to the RB from the backfield, same thing happened too often in the UCLA game.

BYU's dline is not getting pressure on the QB's with just 4 so they are bringing linebackers which is leaving open spots for the RB's to run when they hit safety valve passes. It is a weakness and I'm sure that the WVU coaches were excited to exploit it. I still think this team can be very good offensively and defensively but they need to clean up the problems. Unfortunately, we don't have any MWC teams to pad the schedule with while the team learns how to win.

If this defense puts any consistent pressure on QBs, I believe we are 4-0 right now. BYU has been getting burned by QBs having the better part of an afternoon to make a pass. Arizona was the only time that BYU got to the QB even somewhat consistently. Lack of pass rush is concerning.

I agree completely. Taysom hill is a convenient scapegoat right now but there are a bunch of problems that our new coaching staff is trying to iron out right now.

Brayden Green wrote:
.... for Taysom to run. Tanner would do just fine.



There is nothing wrong with this offense, especially at BYU. This offense belongs at BYU. It is also an elite offense. You will see this offense all day long on Sundays, with the same mixture of play calls. We have the wrong quarterback running the right offense. If he is out of place then that is something that should be considered. It isn't like we have a true freshman on the bench. We have a freaking all American on the bench, whom this offense would suit perfectly. A move absolutely has to be made at quarterback. I don't know what else you need to see at this point. Everything on offense was great except for the quarterback today. Maybe a couple false starts... That's it.

If it's as cut and dry as you say; either Detmer doesn't agree, or he hasn't considered this. You choose. This argument puts the blame squarely on Detmer.

1- Hill looked better. Maybe 7 terrible throws, 3 for INTs, 1 for a pick 6, but it was better. He was more calm in the pocket, and ran better too. More than enough to start again next week, even if some question if Tanner would be better.



2- The entire offense looked better. Better o-line, better WRs, better RB core. Better pockets, less drops, and Jamaal going beast-mode. All still need work though.



3- BYU needs to recruit better d-linemen. LBs are great. DBs solid given a normal amount of time. But no pressure on the QB. This problem may not be fixed this season.

Taysom does seem to get too much in his head when they use the whole playclock. He has shown a greater comfort with a faster O ... that doesn't mean no huddle or hurry up, but with a faster pace. Even when the snap was coming with 10 -15 second left on the play clock, that was fast enough to add comfort to Hill. He seemed to get in a better rhythm with a little more speed. And the way that Ty sped things up in the 2nd half (especially in the 4th Q), I think he picked up on that too.

Mars wrote:
3- BYU needs to recruit better d-linemen. LBs are great. DBs solid given a normal amount of time. But no pressure on the QB. This problem may not be fixed this season.

The fix is listed as questionable every week. Travis Tuiloma will demand a double team every play at the center of the line, and that will open up everything.

It will be VERY interesting to see how things change with Tuiloma back.

frdbtr wrote:

.... for Taysom to run. Tanner would do just fine.



There is nothing wrong with this offense, especially at BYU. This offense belongs at BYU. It is also an elite offense. You will see this offense all day long on Sundays, with the same mixture of play calls. We have the wrong quarterback running the right offense. If he is out of place then that is something that should be considered. It isn't like we have a true freshman on the bench. We have a freaking all American on the bench, whom this offense would suit perfectly. A move absolutely has to be made at quarterback. I don't know what else you need to see at this point. Everything on offense was great except for the quarterback today. Maybe a couple false starts... That's it.

Call up Ty Detmer and let him know because he obviously doesn't see it the way you do. Or maybe we should fire the coach so that we can get someone who thinks the way we do.

I am going to agree with frdbtr. I thought Taysom played pretty well today. He wasn't perfect, but he made some good passes (of course some of those went to the other team, but not all of those were his fault). I was pleased to see us put up so many points against a quality team. The real story of the game, for me, was the inability to get to the QB. Unless our Defensive Line starts getting some pressure on the QB, we will continue to struggle to win games. That has been the problem all year. Tackling and coverage have been pretty good (though tackling took a step back yesterday), but there just has not been pressure on the QB. I believe part of running the slow offense helps that by keeping the ball out of the other teams hands, but we cannot rely on turnovers as defensive stops. As Kalani does his magic with recruiting great D-Lineman, though, I think that will change. I see some great things in the future, but I like to think that this season Taysom is the test pilot and is getting all of the kinks worked out of the offensive machine. The O-line was very good, minus the false starts, and the receivers responded well and made some tough catches. After the kinks get worked out, next year Tanner can take over a well-oiled machine. The future is bright. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: 8)

Mars wrote:
1- Hill looked better. Maybe 7 terrible throws, 3 for INTs, 1 for a pick 6, but it was better. He was more calm in the pocket, and ran better too. More than enough to start again next week, even if some question if Tanner would be better.



2- The entire offense looked better. Better o-line, better WRs, better RB core. Better pockets, less drops, and Jamaal going beast-mode. All still need work though.



3- BYU needs to recruit better d-linemen. LBs are great. DBs solid given a normal amount of time. But no pressure on the QB. This problem may not be fixed this season.

I should have read your post before posting mine. Concur on all points.

P.S. I do believe that all 3 INTs were Taysom's fault this time. WRs can tip good passes, but that wasn't the case vs. WVU.

Mars wrote:
P.S. I do believe that all 3 INTs were Taysom's fault this time. WRs can tip good passes, but that wasn't the case vs. WVU.

I disagree. The pick 6 was a horrible decision by Taysom. The second Pick was tipped by the receiver who could have made a play on it if he had turned around faster. The last and game ending pick was right on the hands of the receiver and should have been caught. If that ball had been thrown to MM, Houk, or Blackmon, it is 1st and goal BYU. Taysom threw the ball to a spot on time and the receiver didn't catch it, simple as that.

frdbtr wrote:

P.S. I do believe that all 3 INTs were Taysom's fault this time. WRs can tip good passes, but that wasn't the case vs. WVU.

I disagree. The pick 6 was a horrible decision by Taysom. The second Pick was tipped by the receiver who could have made a play on it if he had turned around faster. The last and game ending pick was right on the hands of the receiver and should have been caught. If that ball had been thrown to MM, Houk, or Blackmon, it is 1st and goal BYU. Taysom threw the ball to a spot on time and the receiver didn't catch it, simple as that.

Pick 6 is all on Taysom. 2nd pick mostly on Taysom, maybe all ... truly hard to blame the receiver on that, he tipped it at the high point of his jump. Final pick is not on Taysom.

What ever happened to, "You touch it, you catch it?" Was the ball on the second pick high? Yeah. Should it have been caught anyway? Most definitely. BYU's passing offense in the past has thrived not by getting giant receivers with sprinter speed, but by having guys run precise routes and finding a way to get open, and then catching whatever came to them. Look at Koslowski, Bellini, Drage, Cahoon, etc. These guys were not prototypical NFL receivers. But if you threw the ball at them, you knew they had a good chance of coming up with it - even if you probably shouldn't have even thought about throwing it in the first place. Same goes for our tight ends, from Clay Brown to Lewis and Mili to George and Pitta. High, low, in front, behind, wide open or in traffic, they were going to catch the ball, or at least come as close as any human being could possibly be expected to. I mean, does Kos have any business catching that TD at the back of the endzone against Michigan? No! But he did it anyway! Cahoon has a 7 minute highlight video on YouTube, he's probably shorter and slower than Juergens, yet in the first 30 seconds of that video you see 3 catches all more difficult than that second pick. Eric Drage, same deal - not big, not fast, but he got open and he caught every pass he should have and a whole bunch of passes he had no business catching. I don't care how hard it's thrown or where it's placed, if you get two hands on the ball you catch it. Period. And if you don't, it's on you. You can't learn speed, and you can't learn height, but you can sure as heck learn to catch a ball.



The third pick was a bad decision, you don't throw that ball, that's on Taysom. Still, I'd like to see Hifo either win that battle and catch it anyway, or at least turn into a defender and bat it down. You've got to have enough situational awareness to know it's second down, there's a defender behind you, and so an incompletion isn't the end of the world. A pick is. But maybe it never even comes to that without the second pick.