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Hans Olsen's opinion

by frdbtr · 9/19/2016

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Fido
Have people not been saying the WRs need to catch these drops? Everyone is sure getting defensive and/or pointing fingers and stuff for what everyone knew was going to be a tough first half or more of the season. I maintain my position which is the offense as a whole is subpar so far this season. I don't see any way to sugar coat that.
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Gunk
Olsen starts out saying there were plenty of errors and bad throws made by Hill. Two replays of missed catches by the WRs doesn't dissolve 6 bad throws by Hill.



Against UCLA, Hill was 26/48. The ball didn't bounce off receivers' hands 22 times. More like 3.
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Cougarfan87
Gunk wrote:
Olsen starts out saying there were plenty of errors and bad throws made by Hill. Two replays of missed catches by the WRs doesn't dissolve 6 bad throws by Hill.



Against UCLA, Hill was 26/48. The ball didn't bounce off receivers' hands 22 times. More like 3.


Yup. An inconvenient truth. I looked at a thread on cougarboard that tried to show how most of the throws were not the QB's fault. Unfortunately, the video clips only commented on where the ball was thrown, or the lack of time, and the fact that he had to scramble. What was not commented on, was the fact that in many of those situations, there were other receivers in the same frame that were open that Taysom did not throw the ball to. There are open receivers down field. Taysom is just not seeing them. The O-line needs to block better, no doubt. But Taysom's field vision and his accuracy need to improve.
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YNot
Gunk wrote:
Olsen starts out saying there were plenty of errors and bad throws made by Hill. Two replays of missed catches by the WRs doesn't dissolve 6 bad throws by Hill.



Against UCLA, Hill was 26/48. The ball didn't bounce off receivers' hands 22 times. More like 3.


If just those 3 catches are made, Hill is 29/48. That's over 60% completion rate and probably 275+ yards passing. And, we extend at least 2 drives....against a good defense.



It wasn't on Taysom, and Tanner wouldn't have fixed, that Jamaal Williams was only able to get 32 yards rushing on 14 carries. That's 2 yards per carry.



UCLA played a good defensive game and BYU didn't make plays when we needed them.



Hopefully we make more plays against WVU this Saturday, or there is little hope that BYU scores more than 20 points, again.
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snoscythe
Cougarfan87 wrote:
there were other receivers in the same frame that were open that Taysom did not throw the ball to. There are open receivers down field. Taysom is just not seeing them. The O-line needs to block better, no doubt. But Taysom's field vision and his accuracy need to improve.


Much of the time the fact that there are other receivers elsewhere who are "more open" is a false criticism, much like fans who say a QB has "happy feet" in the pocket. As a quarterback progresses through his reads, he not looking for the most open receiver--he is looking for the first guy he thinks he can hit for a reception, and that's the end of the analysis.



If the guy he is throwing to is open or has a chance to make a catch, the fact that a 3rd or 4th option he never got to was more open is moot. You don't pass up a pass you can make just to see if someone is more open, and it's especially foolish to think that if you're also criticizing the offensive line for not giving him enough time--you really want him to spend extra time looking for better options?
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frdbtr
snoscythe wrote:
there were other receivers in the same frame that were open that Taysom did not throw the ball to. There are open receivers down field. Taysom is just not seeing them. The O-line needs to block better, no doubt. But Taysom's field vision and his accuracy need to improve.


Much of the time the fact that there are other receivers elsewhere who are "more open" is a false criticism, much like fans who say a QB has "happy feet" in the pocket. As a quarterback progresses through his reads, he not looking for the most open receiver--he is looking for the first guy he thinks he can hit for a reception, and that's the end of the analysis.



If the guy he is throwing to is open or has a chance to make a catch, the fact that a 3rd or 4th option he never got to was more open is moot. You don't pass up a pass you can make just to see if someone is more open, and it's especially foolish to think that if you're also criticizing the offensive line for not giving him enough time--you really want him to spend extra time looking for better options?


Ty Detmer said in the coordinators corner that Taysom is going to the "right guys" with the ball. That means that he is making the correct reads, which means that the offensive line needs to help him by giving him time to make those reads and the receivers need to get themselves open in order to make the reception of the ball easier. This is not all on Taysom and a simple QB change isn't going to fix the problems. On the drive that got us the first 7 points of the game, Taysom was gunning the ball into covered guys who were making difficult catches which resulted in the score. The Oline held their blocks long enough for Taysom to get rid of the ball. More of that would have resulted in more points for BYU, just the fact that Oline had improved on that drive made a difference. Imagine what it would be like if the receivers were getting better separation as well.
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Mars
YNot wrote:
It wasn't on Taysom, and Tanner wouldn't have fixed, that Jamaal Williams was only able to get 32 yards rushing on 14 carries. That's 2 yards per carry.

I completely disagree. Riley Nelson hurt his offense's running game as well, since the opposing D could simply stack the box.
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Cougarfan87
frdbtr wrote:
Cougarfan87 wrote:
there were other receivers in the same frame that were open that Taysom did not throw the ball to. There are open receivers down field. Taysom is just not seeing them. The O-line needs to block better, no doubt. But Taysom's field vision and his accuracy need to improve.


Much of the time the fact that there are other receivers elsewhere who are "more open" is a false criticism, much like fans who say a QB has "happy feet" in the pocket. As a quarterback progresses through his reads, he not looking for the most open receiver--he is looking for the first guy he thinks he can hit for a reception, and that's the end of the analysis.



If the guy he is throwing to is open or has a chance to make a catch, the fact that a 3rd or 4th option he never got to was more open is moot. You don't pass up a pass you can make just to see if someone is more open, and it's especially foolish to think that if you're also criticizing the offensive line for not giving him enough time--you really want him to spend extra time looking for better options?


Ty Detmer said in the coordinators corner that Taysom is going to the "right guys" with the ball. That means that he is making the correct reads, which means that the offensive line needs to help him by giving him time to make those reads and the receivers need to get themselves open in order to make the reception of the ball easier. This is not all on Taysom and a simple QB change isn't going to fix the problems. On the drive that got us the first 7 points of the game, Taysom was gunning the ball into covered guys who were making difficult catches which resulted in the score. The Oline held their blocks long enough for Taysom to get rid of the ball. More of that would have resulted in more points for BYU, just the fact that Oline had improved on that drive made a difference. Imagine what it would be like if the receivers were getting better separation as well.


If Ty said he was throwing to the right guys, I trust that. He would know.
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SpiffCoug
That's coach-speak by Ty to a certain degree. There have been multiple instances in the three games that Taysom clearly went to the wrong guy.



I'm glad he's sticking up for him in public, but I hope in film session he's pointing out where he could have gone instead.



Perhaps Taysom is going to the "right" guy when there was "better" guy that he didn't see that time in the film room w/ Ty will help him see.
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scott715
Well he got 2 TDs in the second half so maybe things are improving.



If those throws are too fast then we need to be throwing further down field to help the WRs have more time to see the ball and catch it.
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snoscythe
SpiffCoug wrote:
That's coach-speak by Ty to a certain degree. There have been multiple instances in the three games that Taysom clearly went to the wrong guy.



I'm glad he's sticking up for him in public, but I hope in film session he's pointing out where he could have gone instead.


I don't think you understand progression reads in an offense. The only time a QB throws to the wrong guy is when either 1) He passes on an open receiver on an early progression for someone else on a later progression, or 2) He throws to someone who is covered to the point they have no chance to catch the ball. That's it. If there is a more open receiver, that only matters if there is no open receiver in the earlier progressions. Progressions are not about finding the best or most open guy--it's finding the first open guy and getting rid of the football. If you are looking for the most open guy during a game, you're doing it wrong and you die of paralysis by analysis.



After the games in the film room, one of the things the offensive staff will be doing is evaluating the progressions. If the #3 read on a given play is repeatedly wide open, they might decide to elevate that progression to #1 or #2, but that also depends on when #3 is getting open. If it's a late-developing route, they may very well keep it the #3 progression despite its effectiveness, especially when you have a struggling o-line.



If you are talking about Taysom throwing to guys who are not open, that's fine. But for anyone who doesn't have their hands on a playbook to talk about a QB throwing to the wrong guys is a pretty bold move of hubris--you're assuming you know what the progressions are for each play and how those progressions change based on the pre-snap reads of the three different levels of the defense. I don't know a single fan with that level of knowledge. That's why "He had so-and-so wide open but just didn't see him! He should have thrown it to him!" is the sign of someone who doesn't understand the game. As long as he threw it to someone who was open and he didn't pass on someone else who was open on an earlier proper progression, he made the right decision--every time, and no coach will ever second guess or correct him on that. They may alter the progressions, but to try and make a QB see something outside of the progressions is to undermine everything you've taught them.
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Cougarfan87
Not to nit pick, but the out route that was batted down in the end zone by the LB that had been covering Taysom was well covered, while there was a receiver in the same area that was wide open. I am sure Taysom is making some good reads, but he is also clearly making some bad ones. Part of that is adjusting to a new offense. In Ty's offense, the QB has to make the line calls, has to know the routes and progressions, and has to know which way the receivers are supposed to go based on the coverage (and hope that receivers recognize it and do the same). It isn't all on Taysom. But some of it is. All parts of the offense need to improve. Hopefully we get the kinks worked out soon.
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snoscythe
I'm not saying Taysom is perfect, and I'm sure he, like any other QB in a new system, is making errors in his reads--I'm sure those are addressed in post-game film sessions.



What I am saying is that no one without the playbook can look at any given play and say he made a mistake by not throwing to a "more open" option. Simply put, it's Uncle Rico-level criticism for arm-chair fans.



There's plenty of other valid criticism, but that's one that 99.9% of folks outside the program simply don't have the information necessary to come to a valid conclusion....even if there is another receiver open in the vicinity--if he's not supposed to be looking at that "more open" receiver at that moment, there's no mistake in not seeing him or throwing to him.
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