Offense and Context

We have now watched three games. They have been against a lower level PAC 12 team a middling one and a top tier one. Our defense has more than held its own so no need to discuss further there although I will say that if you told me in a August what our team would do and without Tuiloma I'd been ecstatic. The good news is that I think we will be in every game. The D won't let us get blown out. It is the O we are bothered by. The eyeball test says Taysom has missed throws. The opening drive has a pass play that if Taysom makes the throw it is a TD because the receiver was wide open. There were other misfires. So far I'd give Taysom a C or C- for his work.



But he's also been harried. A lot. And here Taysom has been hurried and rushed. Sometimes he makes a play out of it and some of those plays are ones Tanner would not have been able to make. So OLine gets a D last night. They'd done better earlier in the season but they were dinged up AND UCLA'sxfromt seven was rated 8the best in the nation. So we saw what happens when we play an elite D.



The WR have had more drops and several that were for first downs. I think we took for granted last year's receivers. They got open and they made catches. I think that's on the coaches. Calhoun was a slow white guy who got open and caught the ball his whole career. If he can't coach that to his players well then what good is he? He gets a D.



Then we come to Detmer. You can only call plays the players can make. BUT you can use the talents available. If the rush is coming hard, where are the roll outs away? If Taysom does better at a quicker pace, why not quicken the pace ? Vanilla calling is bland. I'd give a C.

One thing I noticed on several 3rd and 8 or more and Ty was calling plays which had the receivers running 5 and 6 yard routes. With the tight man coverage there was little to no chance for YAC which means even if the receivers had caught the passes that hit them in the hands they wouldn't have converted the 3rd down.

hawkwing wrote:
One thing I noticed on several 3rd and 8 or more and Ty was calling plays which had the receivers running 5 and 6 yard routes. With the tight man coverage there was little to no chance for YAC which means even if the receivers had caught the passes that hit them in the hands they wouldn't have converted the 3rd down.

Put him down then for C- :). Good point. This is a collective problem that just putting Tanner in will not fix anymore than bringing on some other OC would fix too

The D was putting 8 and almost 9 in the box to take a way the short passes. Need to take advantage of that but their rush was too fast. Running on first down into that did not work.

If I get the argument right, it's that BYU's offense has struggled badly, "but hey--we're playing really tough defenses". Here's context, opponent-by-opponent looking at how other offenses have fared against those same defenses thus far:



Arizona[/u]

BYU gained 415 yards (202 Passing, 213 rushing), averaging 5.5 yards per play and scoring 18 points.

Grambling gained 462 yards (402 passing, 60 rushing), averaging 5.8 yards per play and scoring 21.

Hawaii gained 429 yards (261 passing and 168 rushing), averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 28.



Welp -- BYU's offense is on a par with, or slightly worse than Grambling's and the Rainbows'.



Utah[/u]

BYU gained 328 yards (185 passing and 143 rushing) averaging 4.8 yards per play and scoring 19 points.

SUU gained 158 yards (42 passing and 116 rushing) averaging 3.6 yards per play and scoring 0 points.

SJSU gained 305 yards (249 passing and 56 rushing) averaging 4.3 yards per play and scoring 17 points.



Congratulations -- BYU's offense is better than SUU's, but no SJSU's.



UCLA[/u]

BYU gained 273 yards (250 passing, 23 rushing) averaging 3.4 yards per play and scoring 14 points.

TA&M gained 442 yards (239 passing, 203 rushing) averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 31 points.

UNLV gained 328 yards (153 passing, 175 rushing) averaging 5.2 yards per play and scoring 21 points.



BYU's offense performed worse than both TA&M and lowly UNLV.







So in the aggregate:

BYU has performed better than: SUU.

BYU has performed on a par with: Grambling, Hawaii, SJSU.

BYU has performed worse than: TA&M and UNLV.



Even with a barren cupboard of talent, there is no way BYU should be this miserable. Are the guys we are fielding (Taysom, Oline, Receivers, Jamaal) really on a par with these teams and worse than UNLV? Or are we willing to say, gee, maybe Ty is in a bit over his head having not been associated with the college game in 25+ years, the NFL for 11 years, and only have experience coaching at the second lowest high school level in Texas? He hasn't game-planned or broken down film for a team with over 40 guys on the roster since 2005.



My only hope right now is that we are seeing growing pains and not the ceiling.

snoscythe wrote:
If I get the argument right, it's that BYU's offense has struggled badly, "but hey--we're playing really tough defenses". Here's context, opponent-by-opponent looking at how other offenses have fared against those same defenses thus far:



Arizona[/u]

BYU gained 415 yards (202 Passing, 213 rushing), averaging 5.5 yards per play and scoring 18 points.

Grambling gained 462 yards (402 passing, 60 rushing), averaging 5.8 yards per play and scoring 21.

Hawaii gained 429 yards (261 passing and 168 rushing), averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 28.



Welp -- BYU's offense is on a par with, or slightly worse than Grambling's and the Rainbows'.



Utah[/u]

BYU gained 328 yards (185 passing and 143 rushing) averaging 4.8 yards per play and scoring 19 points.

SUU gained 158 yards (42 passing and 116 rushing) averaging 3.6 yards per play and scoring 0 points.

SJSU gained 305 yards (249 passing and 56 rushing) averaging 4.3 yards per play and scoring 17 points.



Congratulations -- BYU's offense is better than SUU's, but no SJSU's.



UCLA[/u]

BYU gained 273 yards (250 passing, 23 rushing) averaging 3.4 yards per play and scoring 14 points.

TA&M gained 442 yards (239 passing, 203 rushing) averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 31 points.

UNLV gained 328 yards (153 passing, 175 rushing) averaging 5.2 yards per play and scoring 21 points.



BYU's offense performed worse than both TA&M and lowly UNLV.







So in the aggregate:

BYU has performed better than: SUU.

BYU has performed on a par with: Grambling, Hawaii, SJSU.

BYU has performed worse than: TA&M and UNLV.



Even with a barren cupboard of talent, there is no way BYU should be this miserable. Are the guys we are fielding (Taysom, Oline, Receivers, Jamaal) really on a par with these teams and worse than UNLV? Or are we willing to say, gee, maybe Ty is in a bit over his head having not been associated with the college game in 25+ years, the NFL for 11 years, and only have experience coaching at the second lowest high school level in Texas? He hasn't game-planned or broken down film for a team with over 40 guys on the roster since 2005.



My only hope right now is that we are seeing growing pains and not the ceiling.

Part of my argument IS that we've played 3 PAC -12 teams and that needs to be factored in. Your response is a good showing for how that point, taken too far, is weak sauce. My bigger point is that it just isn't Taysom. It just isn't the WRs. It just isn't the OLine. It just isn't Detmer. It is a mixture of all things and the fixing of just one won't necessarily fix the others.

snoscythe wrote:
If I get the argument right, it's that BYU's offense has struggled badly, "but hey--we're playing really tough defenses". Here's context, opponent-by-opponent looking at how other offenses have fared against those same defenses thus far:



Arizona[/u]

BYU gained 415 yards (202 Passing, 213 rushing), averaging 5.5 yards per play and scoring 18 points.

Grambling gained 462 yards (402 passing, 60 rushing), averaging 5.8 yards per play and scoring 21.

Hawaii gained 429 yards (261 passing and 168 rushing), averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 28.



Welp -- BYU's offense is on a par with, or slightly worse than Grambling's and the Rainbows'.



Utah[/u]

BYU gained 328 yards (185 passing and 143 rushing) averaging 4.8 yards per play and scoring 19 points.

SUU gained 158 yards (42 passing and 116 rushing) averaging 3.6 yards per play and scoring 0 points.

SJSU gained 305 yards (249 passing and 56 rushing) averaging 4.3 yards per play and scoring 17 points.



Congratulations -- BYU's offense is better than SUU's, but no SJSU's.



UCLA[/u]

BYU gained 273 yards (250 passing, 23 rushing) averaging 3.4 yards per play and scoring 14 points.

TA&M gained 442 yards (239 passing, 203 rushing) averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 31 points.

UNLV gained 328 yards (153 passing, 175 rushing) averaging 5.2 yards per play and scoring 21 points.



BYU's offense performed worse than both TA&M and lowly UNLV.







So in the aggregate:

BYU has performed better than: SUU.

BYU has performed on a par with: Grambling, Hawaii, SJSU.

BYU has performed worse than: TA&M and UNLV.



Even with a barren cupboard of talent, there is no way BYU should be this miserable. Are the guys we are fielding (Taysom, Oline, Receivers, Jamaal) really on a par with these teams and worse than UNLV? Or are we willing to say, gee, maybe Ty is in a bit over his head having not been associated with the college game in 25+ years, the NFL for 11 years, and only have experience coaching at the second lowest high school level in Texas? He hasn't game-planned or broken down film for a team with over 40 guys on the roster since 2005.



My only hope right now is that we are seeing growing pains and not the ceiling.

I think it is growing pains. I agree it is not all on Taysom as others would like to believe. I think Ty will get it figured out. Listening to Kalani though, he is losing patience and wants things looking better sooner rather than later.

snoscythe wrote:
If I get the argument right, it's that BYU's offense has struggled badly, "but hey--we're playing really tough defenses". Here's context, opponent-by-opponent looking at how other offenses have fared against those same defenses thus far:



Arizona[/u]

BYU gained 415 yards (202 Passing, 213 rushing), averaging 5.5 yards per play and scoring 18 points.

Grambling gained 462 yards (402 passing, 60 rushing), averaging 5.8 yards per play and scoring 21.

Hawaii gained 429 yards (261 passing and 168 rushing), averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 28.



Welp -- BYU's offense is on a par with, or slightly worse than Grambling's and the Rainbows'.



Utah[/u]

BYU gained 328 yards (185 passing and 143 rushing) averaging 4.8 yards per play and scoring 19 points.

SUU gained 158 yards (42 passing and 116 rushing) averaging 3.6 yards per play and scoring 0 points.

SJSU gained 305 yards (249 passing and 56 rushing) averaging 4.3 yards per play and scoring 17 points.



Congratulations -- BYU's offense is better than SUU's, but no SJSU's.



UCLA[/u]

BYU gained 273 yards (250 passing, 23 rushing) averaging 3.4 yards per play and scoring 14 points.

TA&M gained 442 yards (239 passing, 203 rushing) averaging 5.3 yards per play and scoring 31 points.

UNLV gained 328 yards (153 passing, 175 rushing) averaging 5.2 yards per play and scoring 21 points.



BYU's offense performed worse than both TA&M and lowly UNLV.







So in the aggregate:

BYU has performed better than: SUU.

BYU has performed on a par with: Grambling, Hawaii, SJSU.

BYU has performed worse than: TA&M and UNLV.



Even with a barren cupboard of talent, there is no way BYU should be this miserable. Are the guys we are fielding (Taysom, Oline, Receivers, Jamaal) really on a par with these teams and worse than UNLV? Or are we willing to say, gee, maybe Ty is in a bit over his head having not been associated with the college game in 25+ years, the NFL for 11 years, and only have experience coaching at the second lowest high school level in Texas? He hasn't game-planned or broken down film for a team with over 40 guys on the roster since 2005.



My only hope right now is that we are seeing growing pains and not the ceiling.

That is good context, thanks Sno.

snoscythe wrote:
... the NFL for 11 years, ...



My only hope right now is that we are seeing growing pains and not the ceiling.

My take is you don't stay in the NFL as a back up QB for 11 years unless you've got brains. Easy to believe its a learning curve for him and not a permanent limit.



Personally I hope he learns how to call read-option plays this week. I really think the speed or sprint option between Jamaal and Taysom would be very difficult to defend and WVU would simply not be ready for it. We'd risk Taysom getting injured, and we'd have to absorb some holding calls, but in the end, I'd bet it would net 7 more points than we'd otherwise get. And that will probably be the difference in this game.

Coaching is a perishable skill. I really wish Ben Cahoon had been involved in coaching at a high level (was he involved in coaching at any serious level?) after he had been let go by the Cougars. He could have picked up a few tricks and improved his ability.