Glad to see Cougar Corner isn't turning on Taysom as bad as CougarBoard.

Over on CougarBoard it's getting pretty heated for Taysom. I've even had a poster try to argue with me that the reason Taysom was 1) named the starter and 2) continues to still start is because of politics with Ty & Kalani playing seniors over more talented players.



It's been TWO games in their coaching careers and they're already being accused of playing politics with the roster!



Thank goodness for some sanity over here.

Lol! Relatives of an underclassmen shouldn't be allowed to post on sports forums.

I assume the basic idea of Taysom starting was him helping us get wins NOW, right? Maybe it's still too soon but I think a lot of fans are disappointed in what they've seen so far. He IS a step slower. He doesn't have the accuracy he SHOULD have at this point. He's certainly not the only issue with the offense but he stands out as the QB. Only time will tell but, if he doesn't get us the wins he should NOW, what purpose is there letting Mangum stand on the sidelines when he could be getting game time experience that will pay off in the future?

KingCoug wrote:
Only time will tell but, if he doesn't get us the wins he should NOW, what purpose is there letting Mangum stand on the sidelines when he could be getting game time experience that will pay off in the future?

Likely the coaches believe him the best candidate to get wins NOW. Just so happened that we ran into a tough utah team and we couldn't capitalize. I think you could make the argument based on michigan last year that BYU could have recovered 6 turnovers to the tune of 0-6 points without T. Hill. You could also say that Mangum would have provided 35 points. We won't ever know, I think Taysom's played well enough to continue to be QB. I think Detmer is still definitely learning the ropes and as the two get more comfortable with the offense, we'll be happier with the scoreboard.

He didn't look slow to me on either TD run. He looked faster vs Utah than Arizona.

KingCoug wrote:
I assume the basic idea of Taysom starting was him helping us get wins NOW, right? Maybe it's still too soon but I think a lot of fans are disappointed in what they've seen so far. He IS a step slower. He doesn't have the accuracy he SHOULD have at this point. He's certainly not the only issue with the offense but he stands out as the QB. Only time will tell but, if he doesn't get us the wins he should NOW, what purpose is there letting Mangum stand on the sidelines when he could be getting game time experience that will pay off in the future?

Tanner had his chance last year and will have many opportunities going forward. Remind me of the score after quarter one in last years bowl game. With all Taysom did do that was right, kind of unfortunate that the two point attempt amounted to one against five. The assumption seems to be that if Tanner had been playing, he would have completed more passes. K Whitt and Scalley are not so naive as to run the same defensive scheme. Tanner would not have had time to set up. He would have been on his butt on every play. This stuff is hard for me to read...

SpiffCoug wrote:
He didn't look slow to me on either TD run. He looked faster vs Utah than Arizona.

Agreed. He had an extra burst against utah. Time for Taysom and Detmer to stop being so conservative and get to putting points on the scoreboard. Don't need to be reckless, but throw some decent curveballs at the defense, including, Taysom taking advantage of running lanes.

If we want a more vertical passing game, we need the o-line to hold the pocket longer. Receivers need to be better getting off the blocks. It seems like the only times we had a man open downfield was when a defender made a mistake, and in many of those cases (not all of them), Taysom was already running for his life trying to extend the play after the pocket collapsed. O-line needs to be better. I have a feeling that Tanner would've been sacked a bunch of times on Saturday simply because he's not as mobile as Taysom, and the line has been pretty bad at consistently blocking. Utah was getting pressure with 3 and 4 guys all night.

KingCoug wrote:
I assume the basic idea of Taysom starting was him helping us get wins NOW, right? Maybe it's still too soon but I think a lot of fans are disappointed in what they've seen so far. He IS a step slower. He doesn't have the accuracy he SHOULD have at this point. He's certainly not the only issue with the offense but he stands out as the QB. Only time will tell but, if he doesn't get us the wins he should NOW, what purpose is there letting Mangum stand on the sidelines when he could be getting game time experience that will pay off in the future?

I agree with this 100%.

Games with the Utes are almost always anomalous. Meaning, all trends and expectations go out the window. We win some crazy ones and we lose some crazy ones, but the common thread is, that those games are all crazy and unpredictable.



Therefore, it is not reasonable to judge Ty, Taysom, or BYU's offense by the Utah game.

BroncoBot wrote:

Only time will tell but, if he doesn't get us the wins he should NOW, what purpose is there letting Mangum stand on the sidelines when he could be getting game time experience that will pay off in the future?

Likely the coaches believe him the best candidate to get wins NOW. Just so happened that we ran into a tough utah team and we couldn't capitalize. I think you could make the argument based on michigan last year that BYU could have recovered 6 turnovers to the tune of 0-6 points without T. Hill. You could also say that Mangum would have provided 35 points. We won't ever know, I think Taysom's played well enough to continue to be QB. I think Detmer is still definitely learning the ropes and as the two get more comfortable with the offense, we'll be happier with the scoreboard.

This.

I believe that if we don't see significant improvement through game 6 of the season, Sitake and Detmer should consider playing Mangum. Hill has struggled, but I think he's earned the right to play through some of those struggles.



In terms of Hill's play so far this year, two things concern me:



1) While Hill's top end speed is getting close to where it was, it still seems his acceleration is not quite as explosive. So far he seems to have had a hard time getting the separation he used to when defenders close on him in the pocket, but when he's had a few yards to get up to speed, it's been the Taysom of old.



2) I'm less concerned with Taysom's long throws as I am with his intermediate throws to the second level between linebackers and safeties. I know a lot of people didn't like the Vanquish the Foe article calling for Mangum, but the passing chart in that article confirmed what I already knew--Taysom has a hard time hitting receivers 15 yards or so down the center of the field. I don't know if it's because he doesn't see that area of the field well or has a hard time reading the coverage, but middle linebackers will continue to plug run gaps until Hill can find a way to throw behind the backers (not in front or to the side of them). Additionally, effectively placing throws in front of the safety will force the safety into pay more attention to routes in front of him, hopefully allowing a receiver to sneak behind for a throw over the top.



https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7083011/Taysom%20Hill%20Passing%20Chart%202016.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



As a player, Detmer was very good at hitting intermediate crossing patterns--he averaged almost 10 yards per attempt over his BYU career. Hopefully, the Detmer and the rest of the coaching staff can help Hill to make this correction--as the West Coast offense is often predicated on threatening various levels of coverage.

Clearly Taysom has a lot of grit and executes at a higher level. Plus, Kalani and Ty simply love him and would rather show their love by letting the team lose and thereby also losing their jobs than playing the cocky young kid who is guaranteed to make every throw and win every game.

haha ok

Taysom has to have a good game now or you will see a change soon. This isn't the same thing as having a backup who has never played and is a total unknown.

Mingjai wrote:
I believe that if we don't see significant improvement through game 6 of the season, Sitake and Detmer should consider playing Mangum. Hill has struggled, but I think he's earned the right to play through some of those struggles.



In terms of Hill's play so far this year, two things concern me:



1) While Hill's top end speed is getting close to where it was, it still seems his acceleration is not quite as explosive. So far he seems to have had a hard time getting the separation he used to when defenders close on him in the pocket, but when he's had a few yards to get up to speed, it's been the Taysom of old.



2) I'm less concerned with Taysom's long throws as I am with his intermediate throws to the second level between linebackers and safeties. I know a lot of people didn't like the Vanquish the Foe article calling for Mangum, but the passing chart in that article confirmed what I already knew--Taysom has a hard time hitting receivers 15 yards or so down the center of the field. I don't know if it's because he doesn't see that area of the field well or has a hard time reading the coverage, but middle linebackers will continue to plug run gaps until Hill can find a way to throw behind the backers (not in front or to the side of them). Additionally, effectively placing throws in front of the safety will force the safety into pay more attention to routes in front of him, hopefully allowing a receiver to sneak behind for a throw over the top.



https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7083011/Taysom%20Hill%20Passing%20Chart%202016.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">



As a player, Detmer was very good at hitting intermediate crossing patterns--he averaged almost 10 yards per attempt over his BYU career. Hopefully, the Detmer and the rest of the coaching staff can help Hill to make this correction--as the West Coast offense is often predicated on threatening various levels of coverage.

I actually thinks this chart doesn't support your second point. You are saying you would like to see Taysom more accurate with his mid range passes and this chart shows him completing 50% of his passes between 10-20 yards, unless you are saying an intermediate pass is something greater than 20 yards.



I think Ty's offense for the first 2 games was set up for the dink and dunk, between 5-15 yards and Taysom is doing very well in that range. He could have even a higher completion rate if he didn't throw some of those 5 yard passes so hard.

As a follow up to the chart it also shows the middle to be more open for Taysom as they have more yards per completion than the sides. This should be fertile ground for the TE down the seam or the RB curl out of the back field. I hope we see, and Taysom sees more of that in future games.

This isn't fair to blame Hill for all the problems. IMO there has only been 2 players on offense that have played as they are expected to. That's Jamal Williams and Tejan Koroma. The o-line needs to be more consistent across the line. The receivers need to create better serperations and let's face it the tight ends are lacking overall tight end talent. But that's not there fault as most of the tight ends where not recruited as tight ends since Aneas offense didn't use them like Detmers is. Yes Hill has made some less then desirable throws but the receivers and tight ends have had their fair share of drops. Also I think maybe this offense needs to play at a 2 minute drill pace a little more they definitely seem to move the ball better when they are not huddling and giving the defense time to regroup and catch there breathe.

blue42 wrote:

2) I'm less concerned with Taysom's long throws as I am with his intermediate throws to the second level between linebackers and safeties. I know a lot of people didn't like the Vanquish the Foe article calling for Mangum, but the passing chart in that article confirmed what I already knew--Taysom has a hard time hitting receivers has not completed many passes 15 yards or so down the center of the field. I don't know if it's because he doesn't see that area of the field well or has a hard time reading the coverage, but middle linebackers will continue to plug run gaps until Hill can find a way to throw behind the backers (not in front or to the side of them). Additionally, effectively placing throws in front of the safety will force the safety into pay more attention to routes in front of him, hopefully allowing a receiver to sneak behind for a throw over the top.



As a player, Detmer was very good at hitting intermediate crossing patterns--he averaged almost 10 yards per attempt over his BYU career. Hopefully, the Detmer and the rest of the coaching staff can help Hill to make this correction--as the West Coast offense is often predicated on threatening various levels of coverage.

I actually thinks this chart doesn't support your second point. You are saying you would like to see Taysom more accurate with his mid range passes and this chart shows him completing 50% of his passes between 10-20 yards, unless you are saying an intermediate pass is something greater than 20 yards.



I think Ty's offense for the first 2 games was set up for the dink and dunk, between 5-15 yards and Taysom is doing very well in that range. He could have even a higher completion rate if he didn't throw some of those 5 yard passes so hard.

Sorry, my point wasn't worded precisely--I made corrections above.



It isn't that Taysom may be inaccurate throwing 10-20 yards in the middle of the field--he may or may not be, but we only have 2 observations--but that he also needs to throw more to that area of the field. The bottom line is BYU needs more completed passes behind the linebackers and in front of the safeties to open up the middle of the line for inside runs and to increase the chance a receiver can sneak behind a safety.



Detmer's offense was set up for ball control, and I'm sure Taysom was drilled about not making mistakes and taking what the defense gives, but I'm positive there were open receivers in both games in the intermediate middle of the field. Like my first post says, I'm not sure if Taysom can't see that area well, can't read the central coverage well, or hesitates because of the game plan, but I would like to see more completions to that part of the field.



And yes, Taysom could stand to take something off of his short passes. I'm sure the receivers won't mind.

Taysom has 1 passing TD and 3 INTs across 2 games so far this season. The sooner those numbers improve, the better.