Not just BYU - sexual assault complaints at Utah universities

http://www.sltrib.com/news/3914771-155/not-just-byu-students-at-other

USU, Utah, and Westminster are all discussed as having complaints about how the university handles sexual assault reports.

Here's the simple truth. If universities are truly wanting to reduce sexual assaults on campus the first thing they should do is get tough on the alcohol consumption among its student body.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Here's the simple truth. If universities are truly wanting to reduce sexual assaults on campus the first thing they should do is get tough on the alcohol consumption among its student body.

this would be an interesting study. are there any numbers out there on byu vs uofu vs usu regarding rape/sexual assault? I'd be afraid that BYU would become The case study opposing your hypothesis.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Here's the simple truth. If universities are truly wanting to reduce sexual assaults on campus the first thing they should do is get tough on the alcohol consumption among its student body.

here's an even simpler truth, as long as we see the decline of morals and the attack on traditional families, be it through legislation, the media or elsewhere, rapes and crime will continue to rise. it probably doesn't matter what you decide to prohibit.

BroncoBot wrote:

Here's the simple truth. If universities are truly wanting to reduce sexual assaults on campus the first thing they should do is get tough on the alcohol consumption among its student body.

this would be an interesting study. are there any numbers out there on byu vs uofu vs usu regarding rape/sexual assault? I'd be afraid that BYU would become The case study opposing your hypothesis.

I'd be more interested to see how many sexual assaults have alcohol involved. I bet the vast majority of them do.

SpiffCoug wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:
Here's the simple truth. If universities are truly wanting to reduce sexual assaults on campus the first thing they should do is get tough on the alcohol consumption among its student body.

this would be an interesting study. are there any numbers out there on byu vs uofu vs usu regarding rape/sexual assault? I'd be afraid that BYU would become The case study opposing your hypothesis.

I'd be more interested to see how many sexual assaults have alcohol involved. I bet the vast majority of them do.

You could probably draw a correlation. How many sexual encounters in the US have etoh involved? I'd bet outside of marriage the vast majority of them do.



I'ts like asking how many violent crimes in the US have a weapon involved. "Lets just take away weapons" shouts the left.

There have been several articles written recently supporting Spiff's position. Several by those not of the LDS faith. Their overwhelming conclusion: alcohol abuse drives sexual assaults. If you want to reduce sexual assaults (probably cannot eliminate them), then you should start by living a more BYU-like existence.

Spiff and Hoosier are spot on. BYU's challenge is not what virtually all other schools are battling when it comes to title IX and sexual assaults. The experts report that alcohol is chief as a factor in assault. It is more complicated of course, but that alone would address a number of the problems. Rather it is in ensuring that the honor code does not act as a deterrent to the reporting of a sexual assault. BYU has assembled a very impressive list of experts to evaluate this issue and make recommendations. Maybe things will stay the same but perhaps changes will come.

If you look through a microscope you'll see dirt everywhere. BYU is the safest campus in the nation according to this survey.



http://www.businessinsider.com/safest-college-campuses-in-america-2016-1

We should fix our own house first, before comparing ourselves to others, IMO. I'm not surprised that our 50+ unreported sexual assaults don't seem to show up on reports.

HoosierCougar wrote:
There have been several articles written recently supporting Spiff's position. Several by those not of the LDS faith. Their overwhelming conclusion: alcohol abuse drives sexual assaults. If you want to reduce sexual assaults (probably cannot eliminate them), then you should start by living a more BYU-like existence.

I totally agree with the last part. The more "BYU-like" a student body is, particularly in living the spirit of the law of the honor code, the more safe a campus would be. No question there. Which is, I'm sure, why my parents wanted me at BYU and about no where else. Doesn't mean it can't happen elsewhere, but in my post-undergraduate studies I got to know a ton of people from other universities and there aren't too many people who would have volunteered to live such a life. Alcohol is just a piece of the sexual assault puzzle. Overall decline of morals at campuses nationwide makes it more difficult for men and women to make good decisions, particularly when alcohol is involved.



I think the alcohol boat has sailed. It's as much a part of undergraduate studies elsewhere as American Heritage is at BYU.

Mars wrote:
We should fix our own house first, before comparing ourselves to others, IMO. I'm not surprised that our 50+ unreported sexual assaults don't seem to show up on reports.

I think the comparison is important because there are those who want to blame the honor code as being a hindrance to protecting women, when in fact the honor code is protecting BYU students more effectively than just about anywhere else.



Unreported assaults is not a problem unique to BYU. And sadly, even reporting an assault can't undo the fact the the assault has happened (though a reported assault may help prevent a serial offender from striking again in the future).



I agree though that BYU should not just sit on its hands just because studies show they are safer overall. They need to do everything they can to drive assaults down to zero and also do everything they can to ensure justice is served to the perpetrators and healing can be provided to the victims of assault.

The honor code is responsible for reducing sexual assault in at least two ways: 1) Self-selection of students willing to abide by it and be subject to consequences for violating it, and 2) As a set of norms to govern and curb actions that may lead to situations in which assault is more likely to occur.



I suspect that the first pathway is more powerful than the first. See the comparison of assault at other schools with honor codes with less teeth, like Notre Dame or UVA.



However, the IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CONSEQUENCES of honor code, as currently instituted is also responsible for under reporting in assaults. (Though to be clear, there are MANY other reasons why assaults go unreported).



The Honor Code is not the problem. But the implementation of it is a two-edged sword. I think it's a great thing that BYU is taking a closer look at the issue, but I do hope that media outlets will be clear on what the issue is and what it is not, and recognize that even as currently implemented, the HC has stopped far more assaults from happening than it has prevented the report of assaults after they have happened. And I am OK with having lower assaults at the cost of lower reporting.



I commend the University for maintaining the HC. And for going through this introspection on how it may be better implemented.

Alcohol is THE most dangerous drug. Over 60% of violent crime has alcohol involved...

Mars wrote:
We should fix our own house first, before comparing ourselves to others, IMO. I'm not surprised that our 50+ unreported sexual assaults don't seem to show up on reports.

What's the link and time frame of these 50+ unreported sexual assaults?

CrimsonCoug wrote:
The honor code is responsible for reducing sexual assault in at least two ways: 1) Self-selection of students willing to abide by it and be subject to consequences for violating it, and 2) As a set of norms to govern and curb actions that may lead to situations in which assault is more likely to occur.



I suspect that the first pathway is more powerful than the first. See the comparison of assault at other schools with honor codes with less teeth, like Notre Dame or UVA.



However, the IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CONSEQUENCES of honor code, as currently instituted is also responsible for under reporting in assaults. (Though to be clear, there are MANY other reasons why assaults go unreported).



The Honor Code is not the problem. But the implementation of it is a two-edged sword. I think it's a great thing that BYU is taking a closer look at the issue, but I do hope that media outlets will be clear on what the issue is and what it is not, and recognize that even as currently implemented, the HC has stopped far more assaults from happening than it has prevented the report of assaults after they have happened. And I am OK with having lower assaults at the cost of lower reporting.



I commend the University for maintaining the HC. And for going through this introspection on how it may be better implemented.

I agree on all counts. BYU is a safer place because of the honor code. It screens out many, but not all, of the kinds of students who are looking for trouble. It provides standards that protect people from becoming victims of sexual assault...such as the prohibitions on alcohol, drugs, and being in the opposite sex's bedroom. Some of the reported sexual assaults would certainly have been prevented had the victim been following the honor code--such as the girl who was dropping LSD, in a bedroom full of guys, and then was raped when she blacked out. Of course, all sexual assaults cannot be prevented by following the honor code. Unfortunately, a person can still be doing everything right and still become a victim of sexual assault. But, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Keep the honor code. Allow sexual assault reports to be kept separate from honor code investigations. Anyone truly sexually assaulted while violating the honor code has had more than their fair share of punishment by depriving themselves of the safety the honor code would have given them. I don't think adding an additional punishment on top of that is necessary or merciful. Decoupling the two processes seems like the best answer.

Cougarfan87 wrote:
Anyone truly sexually assaulted while violating the honor code has had more than their fair share of punishment by depriving themselves of the safety the honor code would have given them.

I agree with that. The natural consequence of breaking the HC and putting one's self in a risky situation is that there is a far greater likelihood that something tragic may happen to you. If it does happen, going through an HC disciplinary process is kind of pouring salt into wounds. It's not like the person doesn't know and regret at that point that they made some really dumb choices and put themselves at risk. (All of this doesn't excuse the perpetrator in the least).



However, what if two students are consensually intimate and it is later found out, or the girl feels guilty about it. What prevents her from trying to save her own hide by throwing the male under the bus and claiming rape?

SpiffCoug wrote:

We should fix our own house first, before comparing ourselves to others, IMO. I'm not surprised that our 50+ unreported sexual assaults don't seem to show up on reports.

What's the link and time frame of these 50+ unreported sexual assaults?

I was wondering the same thing... that's an awfully high, but seemingly random number. Seems like a total WAG to me

CrimsonCoug wrote:

Anyone truly sexually assaulted while violating the honor code has had more than their fair share of punishment by depriving themselves of the safety the honor code would have given them.

I agree with that. The natural consequence of breaking the HC and putting one's self in a risky situation is that there is a far greater likelihood that something tragic may happen to you. If it does happen, going through an HC disciplinary process is kind of pouring salt into wounds. It's not like the person doesn't know and regret at that point that they made some really dumb choices and put themselves at risk. (All of this doesn't excuse the perpetrator in the least).



However, what if two students are consensually intimate and it is later found out, or the girl feels guilty about it. What prevents her from trying to save her own hide by throwing the male under the bus and claiming rape?

I have heard of the buyer's remorse rape cases, but I don't think they are very likely or common. Most people are not going to want to say they were raped if they had consensual sex, unless they are crazy. An investigation will result in no physical evidence, if it was truly consensual, which will result in no charges, and having to explain to a lot of people what you claim happened.



I think the bad in tying the honor code with the Title IX office (discouraging reporting) outweighs any concerns of students claiming buyer's remorse rape to avoid a confrontation with the honor code office.



Or to restate it perhaps a little more clearly, I think it is more likely that someone who is assaulted may not report it if it leads to an honor code inquiry than it is that someone will falsely claim assault to avoid an honor code inquiry. I could see a victim who has some culpable conduct (drinking, drugs, inviting to the bedroom) essentially saying, "well I put myself in that situation, so I can't really report this since I don't have clean hands." I would probably think along those lines if I were the victim, but that is wrong. The sexual assault is far more grievous, and those predators must be stopped. Decoupling the two offices should do that.

Cougarfan87 wrote:

Cougarfan87 wrote:
Anyone truly sexually assaulted while violating the honor code has had more than their fair share of punishment by depriving themselves of the safety the honor code would have given them.

I agree with that. The natural consequence of breaking the HC and putting one's self in a risky situation is that there is a far greater likelihood that something tragic may happen to you. If it does happen, going through an HC disciplinary process is kind of pouring salt into wounds. It's not like the person doesn't know and regret at that point that they made some really dumb choices and put themselves at risk. (All of this doesn't excuse the perpetrator in the least).



However, what if two students are consensually intimate and it is later found out, or the girl feels guilty about it. What prevents her from trying to save her own hide by throwing the male under the bus and claiming rape?

I have heard of the buyer's remorse rape cases, but I don't think they are very likely or common. Most people are not going to want to say they were raped if they had consensual sex, unless they are crazy. An investigation will result in no physical evidence, if it was truly consensual, which will result in no charges, and having to explain to a lot of people what you claim happened.

Tell that to the Duke lacrosse team. By the tie things are proven false, lives have already been ruined.



Also, the reason we don't see more of these cases is because BYU doesn't currently dismiss honor code violations if something bad happened to you (wait, you were robbed when you got drunk? Well, you had your natural consequence, we don't need to take any action about you breaking the honor code *eye roll*). If it did, then one can see that girls would cave to try to save their image with their family and stay in school (of course not all of them, but logic says the number of reported "rapes" would go up).