No doubt Clinton is bad. But Trump is still worse for me. This article sums it up well

"The argument of people like Prager is that we know how Mrs. Clinton would govern if she were president: as a person of the left. In addition, she’s an ethical mess. The Trump-over-Clinton crowd also argue that Mrs. Clinton is sure to nominate Supreme Court justices that will lock in a liberal court for a generation. Trump may do that, too, but he may not. He might put an actual conservative on the Supreme Court. At least the chances of getting some good things done are better under a President Trump than a President Clinton."



"I disagree with this bottom line judgment for several reasons. The first is that in considering those who run for the presidency, one needs to look beyond which candidate correctly checks the preferred policy boxes. That matters, but it’s not all that matters. And it may not even be what matters most."



"Judgment, wisdom, temperament, and prudence are the most important qualities by which to evaluate a potential president. It’s obvious to me that Mr. Trump is not only temperamentally unsuited for the Oval Office; I think he’s quite dangerous—emotionally unstable, erratic, narcissistic, impulsive, cruel and vindictive. He is appealing to our darker impulses. He’s also stunningly uninformed and shallow, at least on matters of policy and philosophy. Even when running for president, he has shown no interest in even acquainting himself with the issues, let alone mastering them."



It's really easy to come away with that opinion of Trump solely by listening to him speak unfiltered or by reading his tweets, and without an ounce of media interpretation.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/05/13/trump_supporters_are_wrong_not_evil_130550.html

Then there's this bizarre story.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-alter-ego-barron/2016/05/12/02ac99ec-16fe-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html?asdfk

The more I found out about Trump the more concerned I become with the world. The fact that 10% of the population could support him enough to get him the republican nomination speaks volumes to the lost and fallen nature our country has become.

Look at the last 4, 5, 6 presidencies. Yes it is getting worse. But the trend is consistent. We are goin down. Farther and faster than ever in our countries history. Obama is evil. Amazingly so. Hillary will be just as bad. Bush, Clinton, Bush, ever so fast down hill. Trump is just a new form of corruption. When I see that we elected Obama over Romney, it amazes me. (And I think Romney was way too liberal for preserving our freedoms that we have lost) But the next two just seem right in line with the degradation.

Just take a look at Trump's Supreme Court pool and imagine Clinton's. All moral control will be gone with a Clinton court and nothing else will matter. Yes, I have concerns about Trump, but the Court overrides all of them

I think we all have concerns about Trump. Neither he or Clinton is the ideal candidate. But you have to be a raging liberal hack to not recognize Clinton is the worst of the two. As said above, if for no other reason than the Supreme Court. Obama has already done incalculable damage with his picks of activist judges who care nothing for what the Constitution says or doesn't say. If Hillary is elected, the Court will be lost to these types for at least a generation.

BlueK wrote:
"The argument of people like Prager is that we know how Mrs. Clinton would govern if she were president: as a person of the left. In addition, she’s an ethical mess. The Trump-over-Clinton crowd also argue that Mrs. Clinton is sure to nominate Supreme Court justices that will lock in a liberal court for a generation. Trump may do that, too, but he may not. He might put an actual conservative on the Supreme Court. At least the chances of getting some good things done are better under a President Trump than a President Clinton."



"I disagree with this bottom line judgment for several reasons. The first is that in considering those who run for the presidency, one needs to look beyond which candidate correctly checks the preferred policy boxes. That matters, but it’s not all that matters. And it may not even be what matters most."



"Judgment, wisdom, temperament, and prudence are the most important qualities by which to evaluate a potential president. It’s obvious to me that Mr. Trump is not only temperamentally unsuited for the Oval Office; I think he’s quite dangerous—emotionally unstable, erratic, narcissistic, impulsive, cruel and vindictive. He is appealing to our darker impulses. He’s also stunningly uninformed and shallow, at least on matters of policy and philosophy. Even when running for president, he has shown no interest in even acquainting himself with the issues, let alone mastering them."



It's really easy to come away with that opinion of Trump solely by listening to him speak unfiltered or by reading his tweets, and without an ounce of media interpretation.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/05/13/trump_supporters_are_wrong_not_evil_130550.html

All that stuff about Trump is crap. Every single person who has ever had personal dealings with him have described him as the exact opposite in personality. Every single one. There has not been one credible person that the right or left has been able to produce. If there was there would have been a parade for the person and they would be the most well known and most interviewed person today.

Hillary on the other hand is that exact person described. There are several books out now by Secret Service guys who all describe Hillary as such. Nobody in the WH was allowed to make eye contact with her in the halls when she was First Lady.

Trump on the other hand is not a politician and I am glad for the breath of fresh air. Our last nonlawyer president sure did a great job. How about we give another proven executive a chance to operate in the chief executive position? And how about we not parrot establishment misrepresentations. Trump has both establishments trembling in their boots and for good reason. If elected, they wouldn't be able to control him. Both establishment want things back to normal. The stay in power, control wealth, and get to live like aristocrats. Trust me this is a class war. And these pundits want the rest of us to stay in our place as they feel they are our betters. The way Hillary acts is the same way the establishment right feels. When the right finally won the congress there was a lot of handwringing in DC. And it wasn't by the guys on the left. The right found itself in charge and they were not happy. Now they couldn't just vote against everything and go back to their state and cite their voting record. Now if they all voted how we wanted them to things would change. If you don't believe me then why do we still have Obamacare? And amnesty? And all the other Left's programs and institutions? All of this is threatened by a Trump (or a Cruz had he been the one) candidacy. And believe me, had Cruz been the one to come out on top in the primaries every single article you read today about Trump would be word for word the same except for all the names. The people in DC are Kingsmen like it or not. Very few are true representatives. Mike Lee, Cruz, Sessions, and just a few others. And you don't have to take my word for it. Just go look at what has been passed since the "Right" took control of Congress. That is all the proof you need. Liberals are still getting EVERYTHING they want. The Republicans keep voting for the stuff and then they give some perposterious reason as to why they had to go along. It's a joke and I for one will be glad to see a nonestablishment person in the WH. And I promise you, the Republican establishment wants Hillary over Donald too for all these exact reasons. Go to just one DC party and watch as all our betters hobnob (R and D) like they were best friends. You and everyone not associated with them are being lied to by these charlatans.

I agree. Trump is not as bad as all the accusations would indicate, and even if he were, he would still be preferable to Hillary or Bernie. Any common bozo, no matter how incompetent or impaired by bigotry, would be better than a diligent, dedicated, and vicious communist, who already has experience with subversion and crimes against our U.S. Constitution. We've suffered through such a president for over seven years now. We cannot preserve our beloved freedoms if we allow Hillary or Bernie to continue what Obama started.

BlueK wrote:

"Judgment, wisdom, temperament, and prudence are the most important qualities by which to evaluate a potential president. It’s obvious to me that Mr. Trump is not only temperamentally unsuited for the Oval Office; I think he’s quite dangerous—emotionally unstable, erratic, narcissistic, impulsive, cruel and vindictive. He is appealing to our darker impulses. He’s also stunningly uninformed and shallow, at least on matters of policy and philosophy. Even when running for president, he has shown no interest in even acquainting himself with the issues, let alone mastering them."

To quote Imuakahuku - pure crap. Bingo!



I'm sick and tired of the idealistic Pollyanna's imagining that they are taking the moral high ground by rejecting the GOP presumptive presidential nominee and not supporting Trump. He was not my choice, not at all. But he won the nomination.



Note - there is a long, torturous, and grueling primary process to pick the GOP nominee. Like it or not, Donald Trump won the nomination - by a record amount of votes.



Like it or not, Donald Trump is the only candidate running that has a chance to beat lying and deceitful Hillary Clinton - a very good chance.



Joseph Smith predicted that the U.S. Constitution would hang by a thread in the last days. That time is right now. With 1 seat open because of the untimely death of Justice Scalia, and 3-4 more seats possibly coming open. The discarding of the Constitution is very real.



I personally know - repeat - I am very good friends with and personally know someone that has done 2 different real estate deals with Trump. He is no dummy. Yes, he is very confident and arrogant. But, he is smart, detailed, astute, tough, and ultimately - stands by his word. A shrewd tough, but fair and honest man. That was told to me personally a close friend who has dealt with Trump personally.



The Constitution is more important than bruised ideals. Nephi had to put aside the commandment to not commit murder - for a greater good. Few things are more heinous than murdering a defenseless human by cutting their head off. It is gruesome. But that is exactly what Nephi did for the greater good of the people - a nation. I submit that preserving the Constitution and it's principles for millions of U.S. citizens is just as critical. Only Trump will appoint a Supreme Court Judge that will protect the Constitution.

Do not forget - ISIS was created by both Hillary and Obama with their wrongheaded, inept foreign policy in the Middle East.

Also, another body in the Clintons' wake. Democratic official who blew the whistle on fraud in the primaries was conveniently murdered this week.



The Clintons are EVIL. Make no mistake about that. Bill flying around on the lolita plane, Hillary making backdoor weapons deals with extremists regimes who hate us, and people who get in the Clintons' way ending up dead.



I'm not personally voting for Trump, but he's nowhere near the level of evil that the Clintons are.

I'm willing to support a candidate that was not my choice as long as I can see a single good quality about that person. A quality which will help that person make the occasional right decision.



Donald Trump's only positive attribute is that he is not Hillary Clinton. He, himself, has no redeeming qualities, no morals, no positive beliefs.



He would, if elected, destroy the country and the Constitution. Luckily he will not win.

hawkwing wrote:

Donald Trump ..... would, if elected, destroy the country and the Constitution. Luckily he will not win.

Pure hogwash. Pure conjecture.



Fact - Hillary is a chronic liar. Fact - Hillary has zero respect for the most Top Secret National secrets. They were entrusted to her and she treated with reckless disregard. Peoples lives are at risk because of Hillary's recklessness. Fact - Hillary will appoint liberal Judges to the Supreme Court that will shred the Constitution. Fact - Trump will appoint a Conservative Supreme Court Judge that will preserve the Constitution. Fact - Trump has picked a Conservative VP running mate that Hillary's camp is already calling "extreme."



Wanna see if your right about Hillary being a good presidential pick? Wait and see who she picks as her VP. Perhaps the fog will clear in your head when reality sets in.

hawkwing wrote:
I'm willing to support a candidate that was not my choice as long as I can see a single good quality about that person. A quality which will help that person make the occasional right decision.



Donald Trump's only positive attribute is that he is not Hillary Clinton. He, himself, has no redeeming qualities, no morals, no positive beliefs.



He would, if elected, destroy the country and the Constitution. Luckily he will not win.

Perhaps you can provide the one good quality of Hillary, then? or the list of Trump foes that have ended up mysteriously dead?

Ddawg wrote:

Donald Trump ..... would, if elected, destroy the country and the Constitution. Luckily he will not win.

Pure hogwash. Pure conjecture.



Fact - Hillary is a chronic liar. Fact - Hillary has zero respect for the most Top Secret National secrets. They were entrusted to her and she treated with reckless disregard. Peoples lives are at risk because of Hillary's recklessness. Fact - Hillary will appoint liberal Judges to the Supreme Court that will shred the Constitution. Fact - Trump will appoint a Conservative Supreme Court Judge that will preserve the Constitution. Fact - Trump has picked a Conservative VP running mate that Hillary's camp is already calling "extreme."



Wanna see if your right about Hillary being a good presidential pick? Wait and see who she picks as her VP. Perhaps the fog will clear in your head when reality sets in.

I completely agree with your facts in regards to Hillary Clinton, and I laugh at your Trump facts, which is at best nothing more than wishful thinking and at worst willful ignorance of the facts.



You may be willing to sell your conscience and vote for Trump, but I believe too strongly in following and doing what is right to do so.

hawkwing wrote:

I laugh at your Trump facts, which is at best nothing more than wishful thinking and at worst willful ignorance of the facts.

Really? Let's look at one of those "ignorant" facts - Trump's VP pick.



I stated -

Ddawg wrote:

Fact - Trump has picked a Conservative VP running mate that Hillary's camp is already calling "extreme."

From the New York Times

Who Is Mike Pence?

JULY 15, 2016



"Leslie Lenkowsky, a former professor at Indiana University who has known Mr. Pence for 20 years, said that in an age of business-minded governors who deliberately avoid touchy social issues, "Mike sees himself as a champion of a very culturally conservative set of values that represent small-town Middle America.



He sees his role, Mr. Lenkowsky said, "as protecting them."





Conservative Review said about Mike Pence:

1. Born in 1959 in Columbus, Indiana. Lifelong Indiana resident. Graduated from Hanover College. Graduated from Indiana Univ. School of Law.



2. When Pence went to college, he was a Democrat. Voted for Jimmy Carter. His senior thesis changed his views. His thesis studied the American Founding Fathers, and he graduated from college a committed Conservative and Christian.



3. Pence ran a conservative think tank called the Indiana Policy Review Foundation fro 1991 to 1994.



4. In 1994 Pence started a local radio conservative show. He left the radio show to run for Congress, and won in 2000.



5. As a Congressman, Pence was more conservative than the average GOP Congressman. His American Conservative Union scorecard was frequently perfect.





Fact - Hillary Clinton's campaign called Mike Pence the "most extreme pick in a generation"



That is a badge of honor!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/07/hillary_clintons_campaign_call.html

Ddawg wrote:

"Judgment, wisdom, temperament, and prudence are the most important qualities by which to evaluate a potential president. It’s obvious to me that Mr. Trump is not only temperamentally unsuited for the Oval Office; I think he’s quite dangerous—emotionally unstable, erratic, narcissistic, impulsive, cruel and vindictive. He is appealing to our darker impulses. He’s also stunningly uninformed and shallow, at least on matters of policy and philosophy. Even when running for president, he has shown no interest in even acquainting himself with the issues, let alone mastering them."

To quote Imuakahuku - pure crap. Bingo!



I'm sick and tired of the idealistic Pollyanna's imagining that they are taking the moral high ground by rejecting the GOP presumptive presidential nominee and not supporting Trump. He was not my choice, not at all. But he won the nomination.



Note - there is a long, torturous, and grueling primary process to pick the GOP nominee. Like it or not, Donald Trump won the nomination - by a record amount of votes.



Like it or not, Donald Trump is the only candidate running that has a chance to beat lying and deceitful Hillary Clinton - a very good chance.



Joseph Smith predicted that the U.S. Constitution would hang by a thread in the last days. That time is right now. With 1 seat open because of the untimely death of Justice Scalia, and 3-4 more seats possibly coming open. The discarding of the Constitution is very real.



I personally know - repeat - I am very good friends with and personally know someone that has done 2 different real estate deals with Trump. He is no dummy. Yes, he is very confident and arrogant. But, he is smart, detailed, astute, tough, and ultimately - stands by his word. A shrewd tough, but fair and honest man. That was told to me personally a close friend who has dealt with Trump personally.



The Constitution is more important than bruised ideals. Nephi had to put aside the commandment to not commit murder - for a greater good. Few things are more heinous than murdering a defenseless human by cutting their head off. It is gruesome. But that is exactly what Nephi did for the greater good of the people - a nation. I submit that preserving the Constitution and it's principles for millions of U.S. citizens is just as critical. Only Trump will appoint a Supreme Court Judge that will protect the Constitution.

Trump isn't going to uphold the Constitution. He will tear it down even faster than Hillary would. He's already said the government should have the right to punish you for speaking against it. I don't have to vote for either of these two clowns and I won't.

BlueK wrote:

BlueK wrote:

"Judgment, wisdom, temperament, and prudence are the most important qualities by which to evaluate a potential president. It’s obvious to me that Mr. Trump is not only temperamentally unsuited for the Oval Office; I think he’s quite dangerous—emotionally unstable, erratic, narcissistic, impulsive, cruel and vindictive. He is appealing to our darker impulses. He’s also stunningly uninformed and shallow, at least on matters of policy and philosophy. Even when running for president, he has shown no interest in even acquainting himself with the issues, let alone mastering them."

To quote Imuakahuku - pure crap. Bingo!



I'm sick and tired of the idealistic Pollyanna's imagining that they are taking the moral high ground by rejecting the GOP presumptive presidential nominee and not supporting Trump. He was not my choice, not at all. But he won the nomination.



Note - there is a long, torturous, and grueling primary process to pick the GOP nominee. Like it or not, Donald Trump won the nomination - by a record amount of votes.



Like it or not, Donald Trump is the only candidate running that has a chance to beat lying and deceitful Hillary Clinton - a very good chance.



Joseph Smith predicted that the U.S. Constitution would hang by a thread in the last days. That time is right now. With 1 seat open because of the untimely death of Justice Scalia, and 3-4 more seats possibly coming open. The discarding of the Constitution is very real.



I personally know - repeat - I am very good friends with and personally know someone that has done 2 different real estate deals with Trump. He is no dummy. Yes, he is very confident and arrogant. But, he is smart, detailed, astute, tough, and ultimately - stands by his word. A shrewd tough, but fair and honest man. That was told to me personally a close friend who has dealt with Trump personally.



The Constitution is more important than bruised ideals. Nephi had to put aside the commandment to not commit murder - for a greater good. Few things are more heinous than murdering a defenseless human by cutting their head off. It is gruesome. But that is exactly what Nephi did for the greater good of the people - a nation. I submit that preserving the Constitution and it's principles for millions of U.S. citizens is just as critical. Only Trump will appoint a Supreme Court Judge that will protect the Constitution.

He will tear it down even faster than Hillary would.

Based on what? Other than Trump stating he will prosecute for speaking out (which we are already doing in this country). I'm sincerely interested.

http://gawker.com/donald-trump-offered-john-kasich-the-presidency-1783971713

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/magazine/how-donald-trump-picked-his-running-mate.html?_r=1



Was Pence given a similar deal? Are looking at a de facto Pence administration? Would that be enough for a #NeverTrump guy like me to vote for Trump?

BroncoBot wrote:

Ddawg wrote:

"Judgment, wisdom, temperament, and prudence are the most important qualities by which to evaluate a potential president. It’s obvious to me that Mr. Trump is not only temperamentally unsuited for the Oval Office; I think he’s quite dangerous—emotionally unstable, erratic, narcissistic, impulsive, cruel and vindictive. He is appealing to our darker impulses. He’s also stunningly uninformed and shallow, at least on matters of policy and philosophy. Even when running for president, he has shown no interest in even acquainting himself with the issues, let alone mastering them."

To quote Imuakahuku - pure crap. Bingo!



I'm sick and tired of the idealistic Pollyanna's imagining that they are taking the moral high ground by rejecting the GOP presumptive presidential nominee and not supporting Trump. He was not my choice, not at all. But he won the nomination.



Note - there is a long, torturous, and grueling primary process to pick the GOP nominee. Like it or not, Donald Trump won the nomination - by a record amount of votes.



Like it or not, Donald Trump is the only candidate running that has a chance to beat lying and deceitful Hillary Clinton - a very good chance.



Joseph Smith predicted that the U.S. Constitution would hang by a thread in the last days. That time is right now. With 1 seat open because of the untimely death of Justice Scalia, and 3-4 more seats possibly coming open. The discarding of the Constitution is very real.



I personally know - repeat - I am very good friends with and personally know someone that has done 2 different real estate deals with Trump. He is no dummy. Yes, he is very confident and arrogant. But, he is smart, detailed, astute, tough, and ultimately - stands by his word. A shrewd tough, but fair and honest man. That was told to me personally a close friend who has dealt with Trump personally.



The Constitution is more important than bruised ideals. Nephi had to put aside the commandment to not commit murder - for a greater good. Few things are more heinous than murdering a defenseless human by cutting their head off. It is gruesome. But that is exactly what Nephi did for the greater good of the people - a nation. I submit that preserving the Constitution and it's principles for millions of U.S. citizens is just as critical. Only Trump will appoint a Supreme Court Judge that will protect the Constitution.

He will tear it down even faster than Hillary would.

Based on what? Other than Trump stating he will prosecute for speaking out (which we are already doing in this country). I'm sincerely interested.

If you really are sincerely interested, read these below. Also, I don't know what you mean by prosecuting for speaking out, but if that is happening it is tragic and should be reversed, not supported by electing someone like Trump who doesn't care about that and would like to advance the idea. Also, I was only responding to someone who mentioned the Constitution as a reason to support Trump, which based on things Trump has said is vomit inducing to people who consider themselves Constitutionalists. By the way, Senator Cruz, nice touch last night in giving the Trumpster the proverbial finger.



Seriously, if you are sincere and do care about the Constitution, read these articles. I'm anything but a liberal or democrat or Hillary supporter, and these are from conservative sources.



http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/03/donald-trump-enemy-of-the-constitution



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/donald-trump-vs.-the-constitution/article/2581763



These are BASIC Constitutional principles Trump doesn't like. In fact, he wants to destroy them.



As our friend here Hawkwing said in a different thread, if Trump can so easily threaten Muslims, he could easily turn on Mormons as well. He already doesn't like us given the voting results in the primary and the fact that so many in the Utah contingent of the convention were the ones trying to change the rules.