Archived Topic

Would you vote for a Trump / Sanders ticket?

by hawkwing · 5/7/2016

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Guest
I saw an interesting idea floated on twitter. Basically everyone in the country knows that Donald Trump has no chance of winning the election, his support base is the angry, fringe conservative (I don't say this to disparage anyone here who supports him, just as a fact). But what he could do is team up with someone who can get the angry Democrat base and then together they may have enough fringe voters to actually have a shot.



So lets see what you think, I'll try to make the poll as inclusive as possible.
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Ddawg
hawkwing wrote:

Basically everyone in the country knows that Donald Trump has no chance of winning the election, his support base is the angry, fringe conservative (I don't say this to disparage anyone here who supports him, just as a fact).

I disagree with that characterization. It's not a fact that Trump supporters are angry fringe voters. That's how the MSM wants to cast them. The same way they cast Tea Party voters are fringe, angry racists. It's crap and demeaning propaganda.



My 1st choice was Scott Walker - he dropped out. My 2nd choice was Ted Cruz - he's dropped out. By process of elimination, I will support the GOP nominee and vote for Donald Trump.



Also, you will not see a Trump/Sanders ticket. Not going to happen.
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snoscythe
Cyanide with my arsenic? YES, PLEASE!!
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Guest
Ddawg wrote:

Basically everyone in the country knows that Donald Trump has no chance of winning the election, his support base is the angry, fringe conservative (I don't say this to disparage anyone here who supports him, just as a fact).

I disagree with that characterization. It's not a fact that Trump supporters are angry fringe voters. That's how the MSM wants to cast them. The same way they cast Tea Party voters are fringe, angry racists. It's crap and demeaning propaganda.



My 1st choice was Scott Walker - he dropped out. My 2nd choice was Ted Cruz - he's dropped out. By process of elimination, I will support the GOP nominee and vote for Donald Trump.



Also, you will not see a Trump/Sanders ticket. Not going to happen.


I wouldn't know how the MSM casts Trump supporters, I don't indulge in it. I'm talking about how I, and everyone I know casts Trump supporters. There are a few rare exceptions, I'll grant you that. But the question doesn't change regardless of if you call Trump supporters angry/fringe or uppercrust/socially elite. The question remains the same. Would you vote for this hypothetical pairing or not.
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Ddawg
I will never vote for a Liberal Socialist Democrat - period.
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Mars
hawkwing wrote:
I wouldn't know how the MSM casts Trump supporters, I don't indulge in it. I'm talking about how I, and everyone I know casts Trump supporters. There are a few rare exceptions, I'll grant you that. But the question doesn't change regardless of if you call Trump supporters angry/fringe or uppercrust/socially elite. The question remains the same. Would you vote for this hypothetical pairing or not.

Uneducated

Poor

Angry

White
I
imuakahuku
First It is ignorance to think that Trump will not win. I guess the record turnout for him is just a aberration and those crazy people won't be out in the general election. Whoever is saying this stuff is most likely establishment trash. The Washington elite see the writing on the wall. A Trump win will be a huge blow to their power and a shot to their wallets. Again, I suggest listening to the likes of Rush, Hannity, Ben Carson, Ann Coulter, Newt, and Betsy. These people have been right on everything they have predicted.



Here's a more likely paring. How about Hillary/Kasich? they are a lot more similar than Trump and Bernie (who btw is straight communist).



Trump vs Hillary will most likely be a landslide for Trump. The only way Hillary wins will be through fraud.
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Guest
imuakahuku wrote:
First It is ignorance to think that Trump will not win. I guess the record turnout for him is just a aberration and those crazy people won't be out in the general election. Whoever is saying this stuff is most likely establishment trash. The Washington elite see the writing on the wall. A Trump win will be a huge blow to their power and a shot to their wallets. Again, I suggest listening to the likes of Rush, Hannity, Ben Carson, Ann Coulter, Newt, and Betsy. These people have been right on everything they have predicted.



Here's a more likely paring. How about Hillary/Kasich? they are a lot more similar than Trump and Bernie (who btw is straight communist).



Trump vs Hillary will most likely be a landslide for Trump. The only way Hillary wins will be through fraud.


Well, I won't comment on the prediction that Trump will have a landslide victory over Hillary, I think a 76% disapproval rate among minorities, women, and people with college education would make that difficult.



But I do think a Hillary/Kasich pairing would be interesting I don't think it would rock the boat of politics as much as Trump/Sanders because Kasich has so little support among conservatives that his joining Hillary would not lead to a large switch over of conservatives to the democratic ticket. Sanders however has appealed to the angry, entitled, youth and hippie movement of the democratic side and has been quite effective at pointing out Hillaries' obvious flaws so I could see him bringing a sizable number of his supporters to a Trump ticket.
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SpiffCoug
Record turnout in states that will matter?



Hooray! 500,000 MORE people voted in the GOP primary in NY in 2016 than voted in the GOP primary in 2012! Awesome! The GOP voters are excited to vote for Trump.



Guess what? Trump still garnered about 250,000 fewer votes than Bernie Sanders and more than 500,000 votes behind Hillary. So he's not putting NY into play.



Trump won fewer votes in Florida than Hillary did as well. I don't see what Blue states Trump can turn Red. But there are several Red states that I can see Hillary turning Blue.
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nuk13
I again agree with Imuakahuku and Ddawg and regret choosing any of your choices. My favorite candidates have dropped out as well. I seriously doubt Trump will run with Sanders or any other democrat. The establishment republicans have separated themselves from and ignored the grass root republicans and have done a lot to put us in this mess. The establishment democrats couldn't have gotten worse candidates short of drafting Vlad Putin or a Castro.
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Ddawg
Mars wrote:
I wouldn't know how the MSM casts Trump supporters, I don't indulge in it. I'm talking about how I, and everyone I know casts Trump supporters. There are a few rare exceptions, I'll grant you that. But the question doesn't change regardless of if you call Trump supporters angry/fringe or uppercrust/socially elite. The question remains the same. Would you vote for this hypothetical pairing or not.

Uneducated

Poor

Angry

White


The one thing about Donald Trump you can take to the bank - all the kings horses and all the kings and all the political pundits have been wrong in their assessments and and predictions about Trump. Repeatedly wrong, wrong, wrong. I would simply urge caution before using liberal propaganda talking points to disparage the peoples GOP presumptive nominee and his supporters. Remember, those Trump supporters are GOP folks. Do we really want to look down our noses and demean them?



Uneducated - Is your definition of "uneducated" not having a college education? A lot of good, hard working people don't have college degrees. A lot of our Founding Fathers lacked formal education (George Washington). Are you disparaging our Founding Fathers? How about Joseph Smith? He lacked formal education also.

Poor - Making less than ? Are you sure?

Angry - ? About what? Is that anger justified?

White - This wrong? At what point did being born white become inherently immoral?



So, being a blue collar worker, not having a college education, being white, and upset that the federal govt. has forgotten them - is bad? Our Founding Fathers were white, many lacked college educations (George Washington had no college, and they were upset with how their govt. (England) was performing and treating them.



As a matter of fact - our federal govt. leaders today are far more educated than our Founding Fathers. Yet out national leaders today underperform at a tragic rate.



Sorry - you're buying into the Dimocrat and MSM myths about Trump and his supporters. Sad.



The reality is -

1. True, blue collar workers do make up a large part of Trump's coalition (not a bad thing to be supported by hard working, tax paying Americans). But, Trump is also doing very well with GOP folks who have college degrees. In 6 of the primaries, Trump has been #1 with college educated voters. #2 in 6 other primaries with with college degree voters. And only fell out of the top 2 spots with college educated voters in Oklahoma.



2. The average Trump supporter makes $72,000 a year. Solidly middle class.

"With some careful statistical work, Silver shows that the family income of the typical Trump voter is $72,000."

http://time.com/money/4318531/trump-middle-class-voters/



3. Angry? Perhaps justifiably so -

"The voters who made Trump happen aren’t, by and large, those who have been chewed up and spit out by the death of factory jobs. They are people who thought they’d met the requirements for success in the contemporary economy, and still find themselves losing ground.



This became especially clear to me reporting for Money.com on the controversy over visas for foreign tech workers. One of the most prominent voices in that debate was a former Disney programmer named Leo Perrero, who was laid off from his job when Disney hired cheaper foreign replacement workers.



Perrero, a Trump supporter who spoke at Trump’s rallies in Florida and Alabama, looks on paper like just the kind of person who should be reasonably successful. He has a college degree, a background in technology, and lives in Orlando, Fla., a growing metro area. And yet what the economy has dealt him has been largely humiliation—a sense of shame from being fired and replaced, an experience he painfully detailed in Congressional testimony."

http://time.com/money/4318531/trump-middle-class-voters/



More on those "uneducated" Trump supporters -

"Now incomes for those who did get an education have stayed flat for some 15 years. The college degree was once the bright line divider between those with prospects and those without. No longer.



If we really want to understand how Trump came to win the nomination, that’s a key economic fact to wrestle with. For much of the primary season, Trump was dismissed as the candidate of the deeply disaffected and uneducated. As the campaign season went on, that became less and less supportable. In many states from Super Tuesday onwards, Trump won handily among GOP voters with college degrees. Blue collar workers may have made up Trump’s most devoted supporters, but it took a lot of $70,000-a-year professionals to get him to Cleveland."

http://time.com/money/4318531/trump-middle-class-voters/



More on those "angry" Trump supporters -

"Trump’s appeal is certainly strongest for those who feel like their expectations have been disappointed, their hopes circumscribed, and their financial state made precarious—people who feel shame that they don’t have the money to retire or to support their families. The hard part to get your head around is how much of the middle class that turns out to be."

http://time.com/money/4318531/trump-middle-class-voters/
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BlueK
Mars wrote:
I wouldn't know how the MSM casts Trump supporters, I don't indulge in it. I'm talking about how I, and everyone I know casts Trump supporters. There are a few rare exceptions, I'll grant you that. But the question doesn't change regardless of if you call Trump supporters angry/fringe or uppercrust/socially elite. The question remains the same. Would you vote for this hypothetical pairing or not.

Uneducated

Poor

Angry

White


It's not just the media making this up though. It's based on exit polling which has been consistent state by state. It's not good or bad, it just is. I suppose Trump voters may not like being grouped with lower education or lower income, but that's what the research shows. Trump says things that appeal to those who don't like the way things are, and in our economy that tends to be those who are a little less educated and lower income. The economy of the last 15 years has been rough on those folks. I understand the frustration, but I don't like Trump's answers. I think if he did everything he says he wants to do the results would make things even worse for those who like him. The irony of this whole thing is that Trump is really the prime example of the crony capitalist who is exactly what his voters are angry at.
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BoiseBYU
SpiffCoug wrote:
Record turnout in states that will matter?



Hooray! 500,000 MORE people voted in the GOP primary in NY in 2016 than voted in the GOP primary in 2012! Awesome! The GOP voters are excited to vote for Trump.



Guess what? Trump still garnered about 250,000 fewer votes than Bernie Sanders and more than 500,000 votes behind Hillary. So he's not putting NY into play.



Trump won fewer votes in Florida than Hillary did as well. I don't see what Blue states Trump can turn Red. But there are several Red states that I can see Hillary turning Blue.


I agree and more to the point: The following is from data presented by national conservative columnist George Will in the conservative National Review. Review at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435039/donald-trump-republican-party-will-be-defeated. In receiving, so far, the support of 4 percent of America’s eligible voters. This overall electorate breaks about 5 percent more Democrats than Republicans even before Trump, in my opinion, harmed the GOP brand. His efforts to keep blasting fellow Republicans like Speaker Ryan probably makes that gap even greater. Even in states that have voted Republican since 2000, Trump is viewed unfavorably by 62 percent and strongly unfavorably by 52 percent of the electorate. Although Romney won 53 percent of married women, he received just 44 percent of the total female vote. Today, Trump trails Hillary Clinton among women by 19 points (35 percent to 54 percent. Given Trump’s repeated mysoginistic statements, I doubt he can repeat what Romney did. In 2012, Romney lost 73 percent of the Hispanic vote; Trump is viewed unfavorably by 82 percent of Hispanics and very unfavorably by 62 percent. Given Trump’s labelling of Mexicans as rapists etc and his signature proposal to build a wall along our southern border, and force Mexico to pay for it, Trump probably will receive significantly less than even Romney received. And because of demographic trends, Hispanic turnout probably will be significantly larger than in 2012, as the white percentage of the electorate continues to shrink. The bottom line is that by all appearances, Trump is going to lead the GOP to a catastrophic defeat that will quite likely lose the Senate and jeopardize the House as well.
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scott715
Trump would make Mexico build it with their cheap labor but we would pay for it.
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SpiffCoug
The good news is that Trump is not going to worry about policy during the campaign. He feels that would hurt him out on the stump. So he's the GOP version of Obamacare. We have to elect the man to see what kind of president he'll be.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/435170/trump-policy-yuval-levin

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-administration-transition-222944


He doesn’t want to waste time on policy and thinks it would make him less effective on the stump,” the Trump source said. “It won’t be until after he is elected but before he’s inaugurated that he will figure out exactly what he is going to do and who he is going to try to hire.
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Ddawg
BlueK wrote:
hawkwing wrote:
I wouldn't know how the MSM casts Trump supporters, I don't indulge in it. I'm talking about how I, and everyone I know casts Trump supporters. There are a few rare exceptions, I'll grant you that. But the question doesn't change regardless of if you call Trump supporters angry/fringe or uppercrust/socially elite. The question remains the same. Would you vote for this hypothetical pairing or not.

Uneducated

Poor

Angry

White


It's not just the media making this up though. It's based on exit polling which has been consistent state by state. It's not good or bad, it just is. I suppose Trump voters may not like being grouped with lower education or lower income, but that's what the research shows. Trump says things that appeal to those who don't like the way things are, and in our economy that tends to be those who are a little less educated and lower income. The economy of the last 15 years has been rough on those folks. I understand the frustration, but I don't like Trump's answers. I think if he did everything he says he wants to do the results would make things even worse for those who like him. The irony of this whole thing is that Trump is really the prime example of the crony capitalist who is exactly what his voters are angry at.


Vigorously disagree with how this is presented. Words matter, and how you present data matters. The way it is presented is a biased "dogwhistle" meant to diminish and demean Trump supporters. The presentation itself becomes dishonest because of it's biased intent.



Imagine the evening news report of Jesus cleansing the Temple of the merchants and money changers:

"Today, an angry, poor, uneducated, and white Jesus of Nazareth made a whip of cords and attacked the merchants and money changers overturning their tables and seats."



Is it accurate? Yes. Does it tell the full and real story? No. Does it paint a dishonest and incomplete picture of Jesus? Yes.



Uneducated - it could easily be presented as "no-college degree." Instead, the uneducated = ignorant. It's a "dog whistle" way to say "stupid." Does not having a college degree mean you're stupid? No. Here are a few "drop-outs" that did not get college degrees:

Steve Jobs - Apple, Mark Zuckerberg -Facebook, Bill Gates - Microsoft, Michael Dell - Dell, John Glenn - 1st to orbit the earth, Ralph Lauren - founder Ralph Lauren. Uneducated and stupid? No. Just lack the formal diploma.



Glenn Beck does not have a college degree. Neither did Joseph Smith. Neither did Jesus Christ (I guess he was uneducated).



And, 10 U.S. presidents did not have college degrees:

Zachary Taylor, Andrew Johnson, Millard Fillmore, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Grover Cleveland, William Harrison, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Harry S. Truman.
M
Mars
Exceptions cannot be used to successfully redefine the rule, by definition.



Trump's voter base is the same as Hitler's voter base. Get the poor and uneducated nationals angry against other races and religions in the country as minorities. Period.
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Ddawg
Mars wrote:

Trump's voter base is the same as Hitler's voter base.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

:lol: :lol: :lol:



I am so done with this conversation and the ludicrous comments.

God Bless America. It needs all the help it can get.

Good luck and, Buh-bye.
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snoscythe
Joseph Smith, Jesus, Zachary Taylor, Andrew Johnson, Millard Fillmore, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Grover Cleveland, William Harrison, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln--all folks in agrarian societies where colleges were few and far between, and college education, while helpful in a few occupations, was not viewed as necessary for career advancement in any profession.



To give you a taste at how irrelevant the college education (or lack thereof) of those me is to this debate, I'll just point out that Blacks are the lowest college-attending demographic right now, but 34% of college age Blacks are enrolled in college, which is more than 10x the overall rate of 2% college attendance in the year 1900....



In short, none of those folks had a driver's license either...
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Ddawg
snoscythe wrote:
Joseph Smith, Jesus, Zachary Taylor, Andrew Johnson, Millard Fillmore, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Grover Cleveland, William Harrison, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln--all folks in agrarian societies where colleges were few and far between, and college education, while helpful in a few occupations, was not viewed as necessary for career advancement in any profession.



To give you a taste at how irrelevant the college education (or lack thereof) of those me is to this debate, I'll just point out that Blacks are the lowest college-attending demographic right now, but 34% of college age Blacks are enrolled in college, which is more than 10x the overall rate of 2% college attendance in the year 1900....



In short, none of those folks had a driver's license either...


Ahhhh .... now let me play your game. "It's still factual and accurate."



Seriously - good bye.
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