NIT, Here We Come

BYU will never make it to the NCAA Tournament when they continue to lose to teams like Portland and Pepperdine. So disgusted right now. They better hope they get really hot at the end of the season and win the WCC Tournament.

SkystheLimit wrote:
BYU will never make it to the NCAA Tournament when they continue to lose to teams like Portland and Pepperdine. So disgusted right now. They better hope they get really hot at the end of the season and win the WCC Tournament.

NIT won't be a guarantee at this rate.

Pepperdine is the only team to beat St. Mary's and they have now beaten BYU four time in a row. They haven't lost at home and just won two games on the road. There is parity in this league and every team is capable of beating anyone on a given night. BYU has 7 home games coming up and a chance to get back at St. Mary's, sweep Gonzaga, and take revenge on the Waves. BYW - Murray Jr. (6-5), Davis (6-6), Raines (6-7) and the freshman Kameron Edwards (6-6) are all athletic, fast and have length. They play tough defense and are the reason BYU's guards shot so poorly. Their style of play and the athletes that they play always give BYU fits.

byucougar1 wrote:
Pepperdine is the only team to beat St. Mary's and they have now beaten BYU four time in a row. They haven't lost at home and just won two games on the road. There is parity in this league and every team is capable of beating anyone on a given night. BYU has 7 home games coming up and a chance to get back at St. Mary's, sweep Gonzaga, and take revenge on the Waves. BYW - Murray Jr. (6-5), Davis (6-6), Raines (6-7) and the freshman Kameron Edwards (6-6) are all athletic, fast and have length. They play tough defense and are the reason BYU's guards shot so poorly. Their style of play and the athletes that they play always give BYU fits.

And that is exactly what I hate about being in the WCC. Most of the teams in the WCC are capable and dangerous teams that don't win games. So beating them doesn't give BYU much credit and it looks terrible when BYU loses to them. Now that we're in the conference playing them year-in and year-out that capability and dangerousness gets to manifest itself just often enough to keep our team from making any noise nationally.

I know in the end it's on BYU to win those games anyway, but the WCC being what it is means that until we start dominating EVERYONE we're going to be low seeds or NIT every year.

We already knew that a direct invite wasn't really going to be in the cards. A loss to Pepperdine seals it. BYU needs to take the WCC to make it. And that is okay, they have a great chance this year. They just need to figure out their lineups and start having a real point guard running the offense, and taylor the offense to having Kyle move without the ball and make defenses aware of him.

If it wasn't until this weekend that you came to that conclusion, you are one heckuva optimist.

Sammich wrote:

Pepperdine is the only team to beat St. Mary's and they have now beaten BYU four time in a row. They haven't lost at home and just won two games on the road. There is parity in this league and every team is capable of beating anyone on a given night. BYU has 7 home games coming up and a chance to get back at St. Mary's, sweep Gonzaga, and take revenge on the Waves. BYW - Murray Jr. (6-5), Davis (6-6), Raines (6-7) and the freshman Kameron Edwards (6-6) are all athletic, fast and have length. They play tough defense and are the reason BYU's guards shot so poorly. Their style of play and the athletes that they play always give BYU fits.

And that is exactly what I hate about being in the WCC. Most of the teams in the WCC are capable and dangerous teams that don't win games. So beating them doesn't give BYU much credit and it looks terrible when BYU loses to them. Now that we're in the conference playing them year-in and year-out that capability and dangerousness gets to manifest itself just often enough to keep our team from making any noise nationally.

I know in the end it's on BYU to win those games anyway, but the WCC being what it is means that until we start dominating EVERYONE we're going to be low seeds or NIT every year.

It's no better in the MWC right now, maybe worse.

Actually BYU is not much better off or worse than normal relative to league play. SOS OOC Wasnt as strong this year, but also BYU stands as good a chance of winning the WCC tourney this year as any with zags down a bit. St. Mary's formidable but not as unbeatable as Zags year in and out. So, yes, maybe less likely a little this year, but when HAVENT we been a bubble team?

We only go dancing if we win the WCC tourney. Been that way for the last month. Too many losses in pre-conference play. The only way we would have gotten an at-large bid is if we rolled through WCC play with away losses to the Zags and SMC. Beating the Zags on their home court blew some life into the possibility of an at-large bid bit going on to drop the next one against Portland (should never happen) quickly deflated what little life there was. Losing to Pepperdine (should also never happen) was the final nail in the coffin.



Given this scenario, IMO Rose should start giving more minutes to the younger guys. Start getting them experience. KC still gets his as he needs to get drafted and BYU needs a presence in the draft. Fischer should be coming off the bench. Austin used as needed. Then when the WCC tourney comes we'll be fresher and have a deeper bench. We go all-in for the WCC tourney. It's anyone's championship this year.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Gunk wrote:
We only go dancing if we win the WCC tourney. Been that way for the last month. Too many losses in pre-conference play. The only way we would have gotten an at-large bid is if we rolled through WCC play with away losses to the Zags and SMC. Beating the Zags on their home court blew some life into the possibility of an at-large bid bit going on to drop the next one against Portland (should never happen) quickly deflated what little life there was. Losing to Pepperdine (should also never happen) was the final nail in the coffin.



Given this scenario, IMO Rose should start giving more minutes to the younger guys. Start getting them experience. KC still gets his as he needs to get drafted and BYU needs a presence in the draft. Fischer should be coming off the bench. Austin used as needed. Then when the WCC tourney comes we'll be fresher and have a deeper bench. We go all-in for the WCC tourney. It's anyone's championship this year.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

I agree we need some changes to the rotation to help stir things up a bit. Our shooters need to know when to shoot and when to stop shooting. These guys have no off switch or at least a reset switch when they're not hitting shots. I think we need a different type of half court offense as we seem to have a difficult time getting the ball into the post. Why don't we run a Triangle offense or something else to try to get true movement of the ball into scoring position rather than just movement for movements sake?

^ Kyle in the high post. With Davis on one side posting and Kaufusi/Austin/Seljaas out wide looking to crash the boards and/or get the dish for the put up.



Shooters fanned out around the three spotted up to shoot.



This should be the offense 50-75% of the time we are in the half court.

Brayden Green wrote:
^ Kyle in the high post. With Davis on one side posting and Kaufusi/Austin/Seljaas out wide looking to crash the boards and/or get the dish for the put up.



Shooters fanned out around the three spotted up to shoot.



This should be the offense 50-75% of the time we are in the half court.

I like this.



KC at the high post fits, but his lack of shooting is an issue. He'll have to be looking to make a pass to Davis, a shooter, or take it in himself (guess that's want he does anyway). He won't be draining jumpers from there.



IMO, it'd be great if KC was playing off to the side down low to help Davis, feed Davis or make a pass out to the wing. KC's quickness and passing in and out of the post would be huge and force teams to suck in, leaving the shooters to fire away.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Gunk wrote:

^ Kyle in the high post. With Davis on one side posting and Kaufusi/Austin/Seljaas out wide looking to crash the boards and/or get the dish for the put up.



Shooters fanned out around the three spotted up to shoot.



This should be the offense 50-75% of the time we are in the half court.

I like this.



KC at the high post fits, but his lack of shooting is an issue. He'll have to be looking to make a pass to Davis, a shooter, or take it in himself (guess that's want he does anyway). He won't be draining jumpers from there.



IMO, it'd be great if KC was playing off to the side down low to help Davis, feed Davis or make a pass out to the wing. KC's quickness and passing in and out of the post would be huge and force teams to suck in, leaving the shooters to fire away.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

This is completely off topic, and maybe should be a topic on it's own, but I am curious as to what others think as to why KC has never been able to develop a credible mid-range jumper, let alone one from long range. It makes no sense to me with as much time in a gym that KC has at his disposal both in-season and off-season, coaches at his beckon call, video break down, sports psychologists, etc., how on earth has he not figured out this part of his game by now? I'm not saying he should have developed into a 45%-50% perimeter shooter by now, but I do think a jumper should have been developed by now where the casual fan doesn't cringe any time KC lets it fly from beyond 3 feet. Any thoughts on this?

Wolverine wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:
^ Kyle in the high post. With Davis on one side posting and Kaufusi/Austin/Seljaas out wide looking to crash the boards and/or get the dish for the put up.



Shooters fanned out around the three spotted up to shoot.



This should be the offense 50-75% of the time we are in the half court.

I like this.



KC at the high post fits, but his lack of shooting is an issue. He'll have to be looking to make a pass to Davis, a shooter, or take it in himself (guess that's want he does anyway). He won't be draining jumpers from there.



IMO, it'd be great if KC was playing off to the side down low to help Davis, feed Davis or make a pass out to the wing. KC's quickness and passing in and out of the post would be huge and force teams to suck in, leaving the shooters to fire away.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

This is completely off topic, and maybe should be a topic on it's own, but I am curious as to what others think as to why KC has never been able to develop a credible mid-range jumper, let alone one from long range. It makes no sense to me with as much time in a gym that KC has at his disposal both in-season and off-season, coaches at his beckon call, video break down, sports psychologists, etc., how on earth has he not figured out this part of his game by now? I'm not saying he should have developed into a 45%-50% perimeter shooter by now, but I do think a jumper should have been developed by now where the casual fan doesn't cringe any time KC lets it fly from beyond 3 feet. Any thoughts on this?

I have often wondered the same thing. He even came out at the beginning of the season bent on showcasing a jumper, so he clearly had been working on it. He can shoot, but come game time it's not familiar. It's not how he's learned to play.



My best guess, it's unfamiliar to him. His entire career he was either bigger or more athletic than this he was going against and so it was just easier to post up or take it to the rim.



I will say this about KC's game:

1) He has to have the ball in his hands. He isn't like Haws who did most of his work without the ball in his hand, catching and shooting. KC has to have the ball. I see this as a hard transition for him at the next level. He isn't going to be running point. He needs to learn to be effective without the ball in his hands.

2) At 25 or thereabouts, I don't see him adding a jumper anytime soon. People like to point to Kawhi Leonard as an example of a player that didn't have a jump shot and developed one, someone KC could be like. First, Kawhi had a jump shot in college. Kawhi got a lot of his point pulling up. It was just no more than 8 feet from the basket and he missed a bunch, but pulling up for a shot was in his mindset and part of Kawhi's game. Kawhi just increased his range while in the NBA. Kawhi is 24. KC is 24. KC is running out of time to develop a jump shot.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

He played without the ball his freshman year when Jimmer was here, and he did really well moving without the ball, making cuts and cleaning up the glass on the offensive side. Somewhere in between then and now he decided he needed to be the man and needed to have the ball (he's not exactly humble, if you have seen his post game interviews), and BYU took a step back as point guard after point guard transferred from the program. Now BYU is in a position where they don't make the NCAA tournament without beating Gonxaga, Kyle has like a 5% chance of going to the NBA, and that disappears to almost zero without making it to the tourney.



So BYU and KColl are at a major crossroad right now.

Brayden Green wrote:
He played without the ball his freshman year when Jimmer was here, and he did really well moving without the ball, making cuts and cleaning up the glass on the offensive side. Somewhere in between then and now he decided he needed to be the man and needed to have the ball (he's not exactly humble, if you have seen his post game interviews), and BYU took a step back as point guard after point guard transferred from the program. Now BYU is in a position where they don't make the NCAA tournament without beating Gonxaga, Kyle has like a 5% chance of going to the NBA, and that disappears to almost zero without making it to the tourney.



So BYU and KColl are at a major crossroad right now.

What's ironic is that KC would have a better shot at national accolades and an NBA career if BYU were doing the right thing with him. Instead they are losing games they should win (bye-bye national awards) and he's forcing things (hurting his draft stock, to the extent such stock exists).

Wolverine wrote:

BYU will never make it to the NCAA Tournament when they continue to lose to teams like Portland and Pepperdine. So disgusted right now. They better hope they get really hot at the end of the season and win the WCC Tournament.

NIT won't be a guarantee at this rate.

Not too many sites out there project NIT brackets, but this one is probably the most respected NIT bracketology site:



http://www.nycbuckets.com/2016/01/nit-bracketology-jan-25-2016/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



It currently has BYU as a 3 seed there. The thing is, with 7 of the next 10 games at home, I don't see BYU sliding down any more than about a 3 seed in the NIT. Their resume isn't good for the NCAAs right now, but it's very solid as far as the NIT goes. Next year with our 5 four-star players in the program is when BYU will have some real talent.



The frustrating thing is that this team sometimes does take it up to a higher level, like with the Gonzaga game. One thing to keep an eye on is that St. Mary's has played almost all of their conference games at home so far and has to play 6/9 on the road to finish it out. I'll put it out there right now and predict that they don't win the WCC outright and BYU isn't out of it either. We play a lot better at home. There is still a lot of basketball left to be played. I'm a huge fan, but sometimes you just have to manage expectations a bit and try to enjoy the good games and brush off the bad as quickly as possible. I think there are still a lot of good things BYU can do this year which can help us get a good start for the future when the real talent gets here.

snoscythe wrote:

He played without the ball his freshman year when Jimmer was here, and he did really well moving without the ball, making cuts and cleaning up the glass on the offensive side. Somewhere in between then and now he decided he needed to be the man and needed to have the ball (he's not exactly humble, if you have seen his post game interviews), and BYU took a step back as point guard after point guard transferred from the program. Now BYU is in a position where they don't make the NCAA tournament without beating Gonxaga, Kyle has like a 5% chance of going to the NBA, and that disappears to almost zero without making it to the tourney.



So BYU and KColl are at a major crossroad right now.

What's ironic is that KC would have a better shot at national accolades and an NBA career if BYU were doing the right thing with him. Instead they are losing games they should win (bye-bye national awards) and he's forcing things (hurting his draft stock, to the extent such stock exists).

Exactly.

Rose is a tremendous recruiter of talent, but doesn't quite seem to know what to do with them once they're in the program. We've been saying the same things for years.

hawkwing wrote:
Rose is a tremendous recruiter of talent, but doesn't quite seem to know what to do with them once they're in the program. We've been saying the same things for years.

That's not true. I guess I'm completely of the opposite view.His best recruits to date have barely even played yet. For most of his time here Rose has been an ok recruiter, but far from great. Steve Cleveland was a much better recruiter than Rose started out. Rose is a far better coach in terms of on the court though. In fact, sometime around the jimmer years the recruiting took a serious dip. That's why we're seeing a lull since the Jimmer teams. Still, despite a glaring lack of talent since 2011, he manages to get into the NCAA tournament most of the time. Cleveland's teams were more talented than what we've had lately.



Even the best players Rose has played with so far were not nearly as highly recruited as the future with Mika, Nick Emery, TJ Haws, Dastrup, Childs, Baxter, Harding. Until 2013 BYU NEVER landed 4-star talent, ESPN top 100 guys. The problem is, with missions, none of those guys have played yet except one year for Mika and just this year with Nick Emery. To date Rose's players have mostly all been diamond in the rough type players. As good as some of the previous players were for us, they were not highly rated guys in the recruitment process. TJ Haws was a 4 star top 40 recruit. Tyler was not. Marty Haws has talked before about how TJ is his kid who inherited most the athletic ability, but the special thing about Tyler was how hard he worked. Others like Abouo, J. Tavernari, etc., were nice pickups for us but were not blue chippers. That's what you're not really realizing, IMO.