Officiating in conference games gotten better so far?

I realize I'm posting this right before a really big conference game against Gonzaga. Some fans may have missed the news that came out right before the season about how the P12, WCC and MWC were pooling together their officiating crews for this season with Bobby Dibler, a longtime WAC ref when we were in that league, taking the lead and assigning crews to conference games. The idea was to create consistency in officiating among the three leagues and improve overall quality.



So after 4 WCC games for us, I think it's working. I think the quality is more in line with what we used to see before joining the WCC and not the shockingly lower quality we immediately noticed when we joined. And yes, I know before this that refs were like independent contractors who would work games in the different western leagues already. The problem however, was the disparity in what each league would pay them. In general the better refs were doing more games in the P12 and MWC, while the WCC for the most part got the less experienced and lower quality because they paid less. Now it seems this has been evened out. At least that's my impression so far.

We just haven't lost yet. THEN the ref rants will be coming out of the woodwork.

I can't remember MWC refs clearly anymore. The WCC refs miss a lot of calls NBA refs would make. But I don't remember much of anything that was so bad as to completely swing a game.

We grumbled about poor officiating in the MWC, not realizing it could be worse.



Pac12 refs are biased. I wouldn't really say they are bad, at least when comparing to what we had the last few seasons, but I wouldn't call them great.



MWC refs were okay in hindsight. They seemed very susceptible to the home crowd.



WCC refs have been downright deplorable. No consistency. Completely opposite from taking the side of the home crowd and downright blind at times. One half could be called extremely tight and the next loosey goosey. We get made fun of a lot from our WCC comrades for whining about the refs (we do whine about them a lot) but we haven't gotten used to such poor officiating. The rest of the WCC is accustomed to officiating being as consistent as the wind. It's an X factor they all calculate into their predictions and expectations knowing full well one game they will be the victim and another the recipient; it evens out in the end.



I welcome any effort to improve the officiating.



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The official who called the travel on Kyle against Gonzaga was Verne Harris who has been calling BYU games since at least BYU was in the MWC - and possibly even the WAC as well. He's been around forever.

The officiating in the Gonzaga game was just okay, but it wasn't biased, at least. There should have been a foul call at the end of the first half and Austin hadn't reestablished himself on the court when he got the ball near the end of the second half. There were other things too, like the blocking foul on Collinsworth when they'd been letting players play most the night, but it wasn't bad.

On the replay it looks like Austin gets one foot down just as he gets the ball. I don't fault the refs on that one regardless of how they would have called it, they had a lot to focus on in that sequence and would have been a miracle had they seen it perfectly. I'm still scratching my head about the Collinsworth travel, not sure how that one gets called. We have definitely had worse officiating. My only request is that they call it the same both ways and the players can adjust if they do.

As of this year, the Western conferences joined a coalition to combine and pool refs which are then assigned for each game, so the PAC12, WCC, WAC, and others are all one big pool of refs.

I think it is hard to argue that the reffing is better. They are calling the charge better, but that is about it. They are still missing obvious travels and blatant palms, fouls, etc.



I think it has gotten from a F to maybe a C - minus or D +. Yeah, things are better, but not by much.

Thought I'd revive this in light of last night's game. These officials are awful. They anticipate foul calls, causing clean blocks and steals to get called as fouls, they simply don't call travels, and even after review they didn't count Kaufusi's dunk which clearly and obviously went through the hoop. These guys are terrible, they jobbed us out of a W at Portland, they suck.

I learned the rule book says the net is part of the rim thus the dunk was not a basket. The refs were looking to see if the ball had hit his head and then came out.

scott715 wrote:
I learned the rule book says the net is part of the rim thus the dunk was not a basket. The refs were looking to see if the ball had hit his head and then came out.

Can you cite your source? All I've found in the official rulebook is

Art. 2. A goal is made when:

a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and remains

in or passes through the basket;



It does define the net as part of the basket, but it seems arbitrary to say that a ball that has gone through the ring but is stopped by the net is no good as there are three inches of leeway in how long a net can be and the rulebook specifically mentions that the purpose of the net is "to check the ball momentarily as it passes through."



Also, if it does have to pass through the net, what happens when a ball breaks through the side of the net? (extremely rare, I know, but about as common as what we saw last night) If this is the rule, in this day and age of replays, it seems like a stupid one.

The reffing was demonstrably bad. There were probably at least 10 fouls called that weren't actual fouls, and about 20 no calls. I have seen better games reffed at every level leading up to Div 1 ncaa. There needs to be some sort of accountability for this league.



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I had felt like the last two games we had gone back to the bad days of the WCC/MWC. I looked at the stats and yes, last night was the worse of the conference games this season but last night it was just as bad both ways:



Opponent/BYU/Opp/Total

Pepperdine/24/24/48

LMU/23/19/42

@Pepperdine/15/18/33

@LMU/15/16/31

@Portland/21/26/47

@Gonzaga/22/16/38

San Fran/17/23/40

Santa Clara/19/18/37

@Pacific/16/27/43

@SMC/19/16/35

Schmoe wrote:
Thought I'd revive this in light of last night's game. These officials are awful. They anticipate foul calls, causing clean blocks and steals to get called as fouls, they simply don't call travels, and even after review they didn't count Kaufusi's dunk which clearly and obviously went through the hoop. These guys are terrible, they jobbed us out of a W at Portland, they suck.

A ball has to go all the way through the net to count, which it didn't. Maybe a dumb rule, but it's the rule, and they were correct despite what the announcers said. They even reviewed it during the game. It was a fluke thing. I've never seen that before.

So they make the one hard call, but miss about 5 clear blocks and call them fouls, when they were all ball?



:skeptic:

BlueK wrote:

Thought I'd revive this in light of last night's game. These officials are awful. They anticipate foul calls, causing clean blocks and steals to get called as fouls, they simply don't call travels, and even after review they didn't count Kaufusi's dunk which clearly and obviously went through the hoop. These guys are terrible, they jobbed us out of a W at Portland, they suck.

A ball has to go all the way through the net to count, which it didn't. Maybe a dumb rule, but it's the rule, and they were correct despite what the announcers said. They even reviewed it during the game. It was a fluke thing. I've never seen that before.

Yep, I looked up one other example of this happening and I'll admit that I was wrong on that one. However, it doesn't change my overall assessment of the officiating this season.

Schmoe wrote:

Schmoe wrote:
Thought I'd revive this in light of last night's game. These officials are awful. They anticipate foul calls, causing clean blocks and steals to get called as fouls, they simply don't call travels, and even after review they didn't count Kaufusi's dunk which clearly and obviously went through the hoop. These guys are terrible, they jobbed us out of a W at Portland, they suck.

A ball has to go all the way through the net to count, which it didn't. Maybe a dumb rule, but it's the rule, and they were correct despite what the announcers said. They even reviewed it during the game. It was a fluke thing. I've never seen that before.

Yep, I looked up one other example of this happening and I'll admit that I was wrong on that one. However, it doesn't change my overall assessment of the officiating this season.

I agree there have been some bad calls. And it's just going by memory, but I think it was actually worse before this year. It's less horrible this year, or at least more on par with the P12 and MWC. Remember when Rose started to bring Mika off the bench a couple of years ago? Bad officiating was the only reason. He figured out that the first call on Mika was almost always a really bad call. So he'd save him on the bench for a few minutes until the call would come against Worthington or someone else. Then he'd bring him in and he ended up staying out of foul trouble most of the time.

The ball must clear the net for it to be counted.



Art. 1. A goal shall be made when:

a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through



And the definition of the basket is:



Rule 4 Definitions, Section 4. Basket

Art. 1. Each basket consists of an 18-inch ring, its flange and braces, and appended net through which players attempt to throw or tap the ball.

They couldn't be any worse than our YM games. We have very few bball players so this year we have to members who want to play. My son 9th grade and another kid who is a senior. There is one other kid that is not baptized but the dad is a member and they have been one of our focus families on and off for the last four years. Anyway we count him as a member so we don't label him since he does have a connection to the church. So the refs are from another ward which just happened to win it for five years straight. But it seems our ward is not liked by them because we are just about the only one that can take it from them. So last week we are playing another ward and these refs are just hosing the boys. They call an offensive foul on one of the ok members and he turns and walks away and mutters under his breath "you've gotta be kidding me ". The ref follows him and starts asks what he said. He turns and looks at the ref and asks "what?" And gets tossed. This was his response after the game.


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