Big XII Not Expanding

It sounds as if the Big XII has been able to work out a compromise for the championship game in which they can have one with 10 members as long as there are 2 divisions.



This means that the Big XII will not expand, BYU will not become a P5 school.

hawkwing wrote:
It sounds as if the Big XII has been able to work out a compromise for the championship game in which they can have one with 10 members as long as there are 2 divisions.



This means that the Big XII will not expand, BYU will not become a P5 school.

I'm Shocked, SHOCKED!! :evil:

hawkwing wrote:
It sounds as if the Big XII has been able to work out a compromise for the championship game in which they can have one with 10 members as long as there are 2 divisions.



This means that the Big XII will not expand, BYU will not become a P5 school.

I read somewhere, though, that Bowlsby said they won't do two five team divisions. I was trying to figure out why. There must be something about playing everyone and then having a championship that reduces the likelihood of getting a second team in the playoff. Perhaps, they have done the math and don't like the chances of getting two teams in with five team divisions.



Nevertheless, I think they would rather give that a go then expand right now.

At least I find solace that it's not just going to be BYU that is left out from admittance into the B12, but it would be also for the other highly touted school (University of Cincinnati), who was in just about everyone's projection.



It always hurt the kid that was not selected in gym class or a pickup game to be picked last or lamented that the team captain "had" to pick you as there was no one left.



We still have TV coverage (ESPN and BYUtv) and a dynamite future schedule. I'd still like to explore, if I'm BYU, the possibility of membership in a conference like the American. I think they are more up and coming than the MWC and there just isn't much desire to "return" to them because it would mean that we might be saying that we made a mistake in leaving in the first place.



I like independence for football if we can make the schedules work, but I still want to vie for a championship crown if a New Years 6 bowl is out of the picture on our own, without conference tie in.

hawkwing wrote:
It sounds as if the Big XII has been able to work out a compromise for the championship game in which they can have one with 10 members as long as there are 2 divisions.



This means that the Big XII will not expand, BYU will not become a P5 school.

I read somewhere that they still wouldn't have divisions but the compromise will be that their championship game would guarantee the #1 seed vs the #2 seed. Duh, what would be any other option for a CCG? This stuff gets dumber every day.



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There is lots of speculation about who is voting how for what. I'll wait until Friday's vote before setting my mind on how things are going to be for now.

Wolverine wrote:
I read somewhere that they still wouldn't have divisions but the compromise will be that their championship game would guarantee the #1 seed vs the #2 seed. Duh, what would be any other option for a CCG? This stuff gets dumber every day.

It sounds simple enough - but it is an important point.



Let's say the Big 12 race looks like this:



#2 Baylor 12-0 (9-0)

#18 TCU 9-3 (8-1)

#7 Oklahoma 10-2 (7-2)



The Big 12 CCG would have to be #2 Baylor v. #18 TCU, and not #2 Baylor v. #7 Oklahoma, because TCU has the better Big 12 conference record.



The B1G and SEC, etc. don't want the Big 12 to allow #7 Oklahoma to leap frog over #18 TCU because of its higher ranking and better OVERALL record.



Fairly simply, and pretty significant.

We are fine bowl wise if our schedule stays competitive like this year and next year. Win out and good things will happen. The invite may still come - eventually. What they are trying to do with only 10 and a championship game could end up worse for them. If they do a round robin with division champs it could get interesting because it is hard to beat the same team twice. The other conferences don't play everyone in the other conf.

I also think that as long as they stay small they run the risk if the other conf picking off some of their schools.



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YNot wrote:

I read somewhere that they still wouldn't have divisions but the compromise will be that their championship game would guarantee the #1 seed vs the #2 seed. Duh, what would be any other option for a CCG? This stuff gets dumber every day.

It sounds simple enough - but it is an important point.



Let's say the Big 12 race looks like this:



#2 Baylor 12-0 (9-0)

#18 TCU 9-3 (8-1)

#7 Oklahoma 10-2 (7-2)



The Big 12 CCG would have to be #2 Baylor v. #18 TCU, and not #2 Baylor v. #7 Oklahoma, because TCU has the better Big 12 conference record.



The B1G and SEC, etc. don't want the Big 12 to allow #7 Oklahoma to leap frog over #18 TCU because of its higher ranking and better OVERALL record.



Fairly simply, and pretty significant.

Totally makes sense when Stanford / Oregon share a division and Alabama /LSU share a division. The other conferences are at a huge disadvantage if the Big12 gets to pick who plays in their ccg. With a four team playoff and five leagues the other leagues should either be blocking the big12 or changing their rules to put the two highest against each other.



The real answer is to make the playoff big enough that if you win your conference you're in. Have everything settled on the field.



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If the Big 12 expands, the new members become "Big 12" and "P5" teams.



Is there any perception that TCU or WVU are not Big 12? or Utah is not PAC 12? Or Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse are not ACC? Or Rutgers is not Big Ten? (well, there is a legitimate argument on that one.....)



So, WVU, Iowa St., Kansas St., TCU and Baylor would be better off expanding now by at least 2 schools. This way, the new members will become and be perceived as Big 12 teams - so, if the Big 12 does lose Texas or Oklahoma someday, the Big 12 has a better chance to stay together and, more importantly, relevant.

YNot wrote:
If the Big 12 expands, the new members become "Big 12" and "P5" teams.



Is there any perception that TCU or WVU are not Big 12? or Utah is not PAC 12? Or Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse are not ACC? Or Rutgers is not Big Ten? (well, there is a legitimate argument on that one.....)



So, WVU, Iowa St., Kansas St., TCU and Baylor would be better off expanding now by at least 2 schools. This way, the new members will become and be perceived as Big 12 teams - so, if the Big 12 does lose Texas or Oklahoma someday, the Big 12 has a better chance to stay together and, more importantly, relevant.

Didn't help the Big East to have a bunch of loser P5 teams.

What's the benefit or reasoning for them not wanting to expand? How exactly does it hurt them by expanding? I would think expanding would make their case a lot easier for ensuring someone gets into a playoff discussion vs trying a different route that it looks like they are going...

Have we considered the very real possibility that the conferences are giving in to the Big XII because they don't want them to expand and solidify? Personally, I think they are circling like vultures to devour the Big XII. The ACC, SEC, PAC 12, and Big 10 have all smartly expanded to where they just need a couple of pieces to get to 16 and four superconferences. If you have four superconferences, the seeding for the championship becomes pretty simple, right? With 16 teams, they would not even have to play out of conference game to get a full slate, and everyone else is frozen out.



The Big XII should be a little more proactive. But they won't. And they will get eaten.

I think the other power conferences know that the BigXII will not exist in 10 years. I think the BigXII knows this too, so they are hoarding every single penny they can until they're done.



Expansion to any available team would mean a drop in revenue for every current member.

hawkwing wrote:

If the Big 12 expands, the new members become "Big 12" and "P5" teams.



Is there any perception that TCU or WVU are not Big 12? or Utah is not PAC 12? Or Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse are not ACC? Or Rutgers is not Big Ten? (well, there is a legitimate argument on that one.....)



So, WVU, Iowa St., Kansas St., TCU and Baylor would be better off expanding now by at least 2 schools. This way, the new members will become and be perceived as Big 12 teams - so, if the Big 12 does lose Texas or Oklahoma someday, the Big 12 has a better chance to stay together and, more importantly, relevant.

Didn't help the Big East to have a bunch of loser P5 teams.

But I believe that is because they expanded after they were devoured, right? If they had several years of playing with the big boys, and successful seasons in there, then they would be looked at differently when Miami and whoever else bolted...especially if they still had teams that were nationally relevant, which they didn't. The Big XII would still have Baylor and TCU, which are very good teams. With the right expansion teams, they would still have a nucleus of solid teams that are worthy of the P5 label. The AAC didn't have that. It had a bunch of expansion teams coupled with not nationally relevant also rans. So, I happen to concur that the best way to protect the Big XII is to expand with good programs. I also think that is why the other conferences are okay with them not expanding. I mean, why else allow them to do what no one else could previously do?

hawkwing wrote:

If the Big 12 expands, the new members become "Big 12" and "P5" teams.



Is there any perception that TCU or WVU are not Big 12? or Utah is not PAC 12? Or Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse are not ACC? Or Rutgers is not Big Ten? (well, there is a legitimate argument on that one.....)



So, WVU, Iowa St., Kansas St., TCU and Baylor would be better off expanding now by at least 2 schools. This way, the new members will become and be perceived as Big 12 teams - so, if the Big 12 does lose Texas or Oklahoma someday, the Big 12 has a better chance to stay together and, more importantly, relevant.

Didn't help the Big East to have a bunch of loser P5 teams.

Good point.



One difference would be that TCU, Baylor, and Oklahoma St. have been in the national championship conversation and grab good TV ratings - that element was missing from the Big East leftovers.



The leftover Big East group (led by Cincinnati and UConn) didn't have teams that were often in the national championship conversation and their TV ratings were fairly mediocre.



But still, an exit by Texas and Oklahoma would suck the life out of the Big 12 as the P4 public relations machine would reinforce the perception that the Big 12 is dying.

So it's official. Top two teams play big12 ccg. Why would any of the other conferences continue to pit division champs? Tradition is the only reason and that no longer is valid in college sports.



It'll be fun to watch next year when the second highest ranked team in the SEC is left out of their ccg. Hopefully it's Saban. He's earned the right to say whatever he wants and he has no problem with contradicting past statements he's made.



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Won't it be dumb if they keep their 10-team round robin and also play a CCG? So some game is getting repeated in conference. And heaven forbid the original outcome be reversed.

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BYU currently at 50%

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