Taking Greatness for Granted

As the good book suggests, "a prophet is not without honor save among his country and his own house."

KC gets a lot of love, but I truly think people don't understand what is happening, particularly among internal critics and critics on Boards BC of his weaknesses and his "out of position" placement.

But do people really realize what KC is doing is huge?? What record in any sport is broken and surpassed by over 30%? And he's not done. He may be setting a record if he can get one or more triple doubles that will be 40%+ or higher than the previous record. Yes, it's a bit of an odd ball stat, but it really is spectacular what he is doing. Last night he looked like an NBA player.

Anyway' it's not just a passing fancy. No pun intended. KC will finish high if not on top of assists and rebounds, and pretty strong on the scoring list. He will be a BYU hall of famer and probably a second team All-American.

So, just making sure we appreciate this truly rare player as much as Tyler or Jimmer.mhard to match the national fervor of Jimmer. But funny thing is, I could see KC having a more substantive NBA career than either Jimmer or Tyler. But cool to have all three at byu. It's been a great run for Rose. I hope his health holds up and these upcoming few years with all these four star recruits top to bottom materialize into something special.

Way to go KC!! Congrats and keep it up!

Cougs_Rule wrote:
As the good book suggests, "a prophet is not without honor save among his country and his own house."

KC gets a lot of love, but I truly think people don't understand what is happening, particularly among internal critics and critics on Boards BC of his weaknesses and his "out of position" placement.

But do people really realize what KC is doing is huge?? What record in any sport is broken and surpassed by over 30%? And he's not done. He may be setting a record if he can get one or more triple doubles that will be 40%+ or higher than the previous record. Yes, it's a bit of an odd ball stat, but it really is spectacular what he is doing. Last night he looked like an NBA player.

Anyway' it's not just a passing fancy. No pun intended. KC will finish high if not on top of assists and rebounds, and pretty strong on the scoring list. He will be a BYU hall of famer and probably a second team All-American.

So, just making sure we appreciate this truly rare player as much as Tyler or Jimmer.mhard to match the national fervor of Jimmer. But funny thing is, I could see KC having a more substantive NBA career than either Jimmer or Tyler. But cool to have all three at byu. It's been a great run for Rose. I hope his health holds up and these upcoming few years with all these four star recruits top to bottom materialize into something special.

Way to go KC!! Congrats and keep it up!

Agree!! And to think that we had KC and Haws on the same team! Those two were both greats. I don't really get all of the criticsm on KC. He doesn't score 1,000 points a game, but he is a special special talent. For me personally, I just tell myself to enjoy the players' BYU careers and don't worry about what they might or might not do at the next level. Enjoy him NOW!!

Making the NCAA touranment 8 of the last 10 years and acting like it's not a big deal is taking greatness (at least by historical BYU basketball standards) for granted.

I think it's great what KC is doing. Very special. I still think he's playing out of position to the detriment of his own career as well as the overall success of the program. But, who am I?



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Gunk wrote:
I think it's great what KC is doing. Very special. I still think he's playing out of position to the detriment of his own career as well as the overall success of the program. But, who am I?



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I second it. The publicity is great but winning games is more important. If playing KC at small forward would have won two of the games we lost I would prefer that over his record. If playing him there in the post season would get us one more game into the tournament I'd greatly prefer that. He certainly would be getting as many rebounds. I could see him filling in at the point but not playing the whole game there.

nuk13 wrote:

I think it's great what KC is doing. Very special. I still think he's playing out of position to the detriment of his own career as well as the overall success of the program. But, who am I?



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I second it. The publicity is great but winning games is more important. If playing KC at small forward would have won two of the games we lost I would prefer that over his record. If playing him there in the post season would get us one more game into the tournament I'd greatly prefer that. He certainly would be getting as many rebounds. I could see him filling in at the point but not playing the whole game there.

I'm not sure we win any more games if he played a different position, but it's possible. Early in the season he and chase fisher were playing very selfishly and it might have helped having someone else handling the ball at that point. I'm still not convinced he's a bad choice at point though. The standard for point guards is their number of assists typically, probably more importantly their assist/TO ratio. KC is getting more assists than most point guards we have had and doesn't turn the ball over excessively. He seems to do a pretty good job guarding other point guards. What am I missing, why is he a bad point guard?

BYULV wrote:

Gunk wrote:
I think it's great what KC is doing. Very special. I still think he's playing out of position to the detriment of his own career as well as the overall success of the program. But, who am I?



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I second it. The publicity is great but winning games is more important. If playing KC at small forward would have won two of the games we lost I would prefer that over his record. If playing him there in the post season would get us one more game into the tournament I'd greatly prefer that. He certainly would be getting as many rebounds. I could see him filling in at the point but not playing the whole game there.

What am I missing, why is he a bad point guard?

1. By your own criteria he's averaging 2.22:1 assist:turnover. Not awful, but not great. Good enough for 133rd place in the country. meh. I think we could find someone who could do just as good of a job in that area.



2. Shooting 3 pointers. Probably one of the worst point guards in the country in this area. SEe point 4.



3. FTs - he handles the ball a lot, and is going to get fouled in close games due to his bad FT shooting. Teams know they can be very aggressive trying to get the ball away from him down the stretch because they are going to come up with the ball or foul percentage wise a poor FT shooting PG.



4. He's not playing to his strengths and may be preventing himself from being looked at in the NBA. He should be pounding down in the paint were he is GREAT. Very good at getting offensive rebounds and being around the rim. If he is playing in the paint (where he should be) BYU may get torched in transition when he is not getting back on his man fast enough. Playing point means playing away from the basket for a lot of the game, Kyle does play in the paint a good deal which is where he excells, but it would have been nice to see him develop a game similar to Kyle Davis with a little more speed/power.



Overall, he's been serviceable at the PG position. I think he's stunting the development of other true PGs on the team and hurting his own development at a position (3/4) he would be getting more looks at if he decides to go to the NBA. All IMHO.

BroncoBot wrote:

nuk13 wrote:

I think it's great what KC is doing. Very special. I still think he's playing out of position to the detriment of his own career as well as the overall success of the program. But, who am I?



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I second it. The publicity is great but winning games is more important. If playing KC at small forward would have won two of the games we lost I would prefer that over his record. If playing him there in the post season would get us one more game into the tournament I'd greatly prefer that. He certainly would be getting as many rebounds. I could see him filling in at the point but not playing the whole game there.

What am I missing, why is he a bad point guard?

1. By your own criteria he's averaging 2.22:1 assist:turnover. Not awful, but not great. Good enough for 133rd place in the country. meh. I think we could find someone who could do just as good of a job in that area.



2. Shooting 3 pointers. Probably one of the worst point guards in the country in this area. SEe point 4.



3. FTs - he handles the ball a lot, and is going to get fouled in close games due to his bad FT shooting. Teams know they can be very aggressive trying to get the ball away from him down the stretch because they are going to come up with the ball or foul percentage wise a poor FT shooting PG.



4. He's not playing to his strengths and may be preventing himself from being looked at in the NBA. He should be pounding down in the paint were he is GREAT. Very good at getting offensive rebounds and being around the rim. If he is playing in the paint (where he should be) BYU may get torched in transition when he is not getting back on his man fast enough. Playing point means playing away from the basket for a lot of the game, Kyle does play in the paint a good deal which is where he excells, but it would have been nice to see him develop a game similar to Kyle Davis with a little more speed/power.



Overall, he's been serviceable at the PG position. I think he's stunting the development of other true PGs on the team and hurting his own development at a position (3/4) he would be getting more looks at if he decides to go to the NBA. All IMHO.

Good points. I don't disagree with you. He is getting a lot of assists though, 4th in the nation in assists. He's pretty good at steals as well, 2/game, about 40th in the nation. Those are two important PG stats. I think he's limited in the NBA regardless of position until he gets a reliable jump shot. It was obvious early in the season that he had been working on that aspect of his game and wanted to show he could shoot. Unfortunately his shots weren't falling and he's settled back into last years version of KC, which is ok, but not optimal

KC 's ball handling is average. He gets to the rim by using his size not his skill with the ball - not a lot crossovers, splitting defenders, etc. He won't be able to over power PGs in the NBA. Works in college, but he won't be able to do that at the next level.



He has a lot of assists and is an average defender. Those are his only redeeming qualities as a PG. He can't shoot further than 10 feet from the basket - not a desireable trait in a PG that spends most of their time on the perimeter.



It's great what he's doing at BYU. Rose has capitalized on the mismatch KC creates. But as stated, it isn't doing KC any favors and, I believe too, it's stunting the development of other PGs on the team.



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Wow. Haters unite. Your criticisms are more vs NBA than collegiate, notwithstanding quoting a few stats (assists to turnovers is one metric. # of assists and number of assists record at BYU are equally salient and overlooked by some).

Pounding in the paint? In all due respect, what the freak does that mean? Back to the basket? Clearly you do not get his game after four years. Here's an idea. Let's take the Ball out of Jimmers PG hands and see if he breaks a bunch of records and creates a national following if not frenzy. Or, put the ball into Tyler's hands and let him take it off the dribble all the time and see what happens.

Yes his outside game sucks. So did a totally overrated draft pick in Khawai Leonard. His game in the NBA evolved. So will Kyles.

And who are the backup PGs ready to step up and be full time PG? Do Emerys shots go down that have been critical over last few games coming off screens and setting up outside? And he certainly forces some takes to the hoop--some brilliant as well. I he ready to run Pg whole game?

Chapman? Is that your play? Is that your pg getting "stunted" right now?

When KC was trying to get his last three Assists for another triple double, he became almost lethal. It was less selfish from an offensive stand point, even thgh it was very self serving to get the triple, but the O almost became more dynamic in some ways bc it was pass first offense and he was head hunting for the person with the best available shot. He shut down his shot taking attempts to get the 10 assists. So, I'm not buying the whole "stunting" his career piece either. He would be able to pass OVER the fronting D if we had post players who were good at that and a scheme Required that.

Did magic Johnson have a great outside shot in college? Nope. He developed a much better shot in the NBA? Why? Because he was so dynamic at his height and play making ability that people called him magic. His shot was even kind of goofy looking. His hook shots awesome--a lost art. But his 3 point shooting had to be developed. Some of you mocked me two years ago when I said he was LIKE a magic Johnson player and he's proving that. And for the record, Kyles pull up jumper is pretty decent conversion rate.

I doubt he is a lottery pick, but I predict he will be a late 1st round pick to a good team and get developed from there. Or a second round pick, assuming no injuries this year.

Where, oh where is our favorite KC CC poster? Let's get his far and away more skilled and experienced opinion than mine on KC.

Nobody is perfect. And KC is who KC is. If coach could improve his occassional selfish and sloppy play, it would be much harder for even the critics to criticize.

As for me and my imperfect arm-chair point guarding, I will repeat, many are taking his greatness for granted or just boxing his ears with it.

Who's fault is it that he's playing out of position?



But I kinda agree with the above that people are comparing his PG skills to NBA standards. Enjoy him for what he is now!