A personal perspective

I was in a meeting with a bunch of folks, and one of them is someone who has very good access to the team. When the subject of Emery's actions came up, he/she lowered his/her head and sort of shook it back and forth. Thier comment then was 'What people saw on that end of the court was not what was actually happening. The Yewt punched Emery at the other end of the court, in the throat, and the refs didn't do anything about it. So when it happened on this end of the court...that was what was sad.



Emery was reacting to abuse that he and of course others were taking, and got wrung up for it. The Yewt should have received far more.



In the press conference afterwards this person indicated that the Yewt Taylor had a very satisfied smirk on his face and looked very smug in his deceit, very much realizing he got away with a huge one...and got Emery in trouble. They said you could really tell Taylor was pleased with the deception he had pulled off.



I am glad we won't play Utah and hope we don't anymore. I honestly believe there are good Yewts, but the high percentage of vile and putrid fans and even some of their disgusting players make it not worth the slime that we have to endure. Not worth it. Vomit is about as good as it gets some times. Let's move on.



I also had the opportunity to hear a comment that a friend of mine was told by Paul Kruger. He indicated that Paul told him that the main reason he left early for the NFL was because Paul got so tired of defending the church to ridicule and harrassment and abuse in that very anti-mormon culture. He said it wasn't as bad for him because he was so well respected on campus, but for a lot of the other mormons it was a lot worse. He was very glad to get out of that Yewt environment. He wanted out.

I have no doubt Emery took his fair share of abuse, still doesn't make it right what he did.



IMO, all regular games with Utah should have been cancelled the moment Utah pulled the plug on the football game. BYU should have said, "Fine, we won't play you at all." Holmoe should cancel all Utah games across all sports.



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Did some of you guys not see the elbow to the face of Emery before the retaliation punch? Sure violence shouldn't be condoned, but I can't beleive how little attention there has been to the Taylor elbow to Emery's head. Let alone what happened on the other end as sage suggested (though I hadn't seen); let alone the fake pain and suffering Taylor was showing.

Nobody knows about it since the game was not on tv (PAC network not tv). I did not see it or know about it.

The thing that I hate most about this is if we had more good fans, other fans in our conference would have our back – the other fans would call it what it is, an underhanded move by a school from a bigger conference that has issues. However, because we have a significant portion of our fans calling other WCC schools “small time”, and having “high school gyms”, the other fans will sit this one out, because we haven't really proven to be good conference mates yet. And who can blame them for sitting this one out? We have been done dirty, but our fans can be tough to love sometimes, and therefore there will be no righteous indignation on our behalf from other schools. We really are kind of alone here. Hopefully this can be somewhat of a wakeup call to our prickliest fans to be less so.

ABYUFAN wrote:
The thing that I hate most about this is if we had more good fans, other fans in our conference would have our back – the other fans would call it what it is, an underhanded move by a school from a bigger conference that has issues. However, because we have a significant portion of our fans calling other WCC schools “small time”, and having “high school gyms”, the other fans will sit this one out, because we haven't really proven to be good conference mates yet. And who can blame them for sitting this one out? We have been done dirty, but our fans can be tough to love sometimes, and therefore there will be no righteous indignation on our behalf from other schools. We really are kind of alone here. Hopefully this can be somewhat of a wakeup call to our prickliest fans to be less so.

Or maybe there just aren't that many WCC fans to have our back in the first place! ;)



You really think fans in the MWC would have had our back on something like this? MWC would have been joining in with the Utes to pile on BYU. WCC fans just don't care or barely exist... ;) People love to hate BYU. I don't recall much support from fans in the MWC. The no love/no hate from the WCC is a step up from the pure hate from some MWC fans, but good luck finding another fan base that will defend BYU/Mormons...

WCC schools already love to hate BYU. Having lived in the heart of WCC county - 20 min away from St. Mary's, San Francisco and Santa Clara - I can tell you:



1) There really aren't a lot of WCC fans and they are very fair weathered.

2) There is very little "love" for BYU, so I doubt even if there were millions of WCC fans in Utah that they would be lending their support.



We are out of place in the WCC. Our student section is larger than most of the gyms in the WCC - there are probably more BYU fans than WCC fans combined. BYU fans filling opponents' gyms hasn't endured us to the WCC.



Lastly, BYU basketball is struggling. If the team was on a roll or had we beaten Utah, I think the tone among BYU fans would be differently. With more "talent" on the team we seem to be doing less. Rose took a team with Brock Zylstra on it further than he's taking this crew. That doesn't get the home town crowd fired up much.



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Gunk wrote:
WCC schools already love to hate BYU. Having lived in the heart of WCC county - 20 min away from St. Mary's, San Francisco and Santa Clara - I can tell you:



1) There really aren't a lot of WCC fans and they are very fair weathered.

2) There is very little "love" for BYU, so I doubt even if there were millions of WCC fans in Utah that they would be lending their support.



We are out of place in the WCC. Our student section is larger than most of the gyms in the WCC - there are probably more BYU fans than WCC fans combined. BYU fans filling opponents' gyms hasn't endured us to the WCC.



Lastly, BYU basketball is struggling. If the team was on a roll or had we beaten Utah, I think the tone among BYU fans would be differently. With more "talent" on the team we seem to be doing less. Rose took a team with Brock Zylstra on it further than he's taking this crew. That doesn't get the home town crowd fired up much.



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All great points, but I'm glad we at least didn't go independent in BB and had we moved our non-football sports to the WAC, as originally intended. That, thanks to Hair Thompson, would have been a disaster.



The honest truth is that It would have been nice if there wasn't Hair Thompson around when this happened and there would have been someone with enough intelligence to have recognized that your don't bite that hand that feeds you and BYU, sans football, was still more attractive than no BYU period.



I hate when personal attitudes come into play in these situations and clear business heads don't prevail.

Gunk wrote:
I have no doubt Emery took his fair share of abuse, still doesn't make it right what he did.

I agree. Especially if you are going to try to solve these kind of problems with violence. Of course if you can find no other solution, don't just give a wimp punch, make it legit. But it shouldn't have been done at all.

Gunk wrote:

IMO, all regular games with Utah should have been cancelled the moment Utah pulled the plug on the football game. BYU should have said, "Fine, we won't play you at all." Holmoe should cancel all Utah games across all sports.

I agree.

Gunk wrote:


We are out of place in the WCC. Our student section is larger than most of the gyms in the WCC - there are probably more BYU fans than WCC fans combined. BYU fans filling opponents' gyms hasn't endured us to the WCC.

Being in a conference with all private Christian schools gives me a warm and fuzzy, but we are definitely out of place! Agree!

Gunk wrote:


Lastly, BYU basketball is struggling. If the team was on a roll or had we beaten Utah, I think the tone among BYU fans would be differently. With more "talent" on the team we seem to be doing less. Rose took a team with Brock Zylstra on it further than he's taking this crew. That doesn't get the home town crowd fired up much.

Agree! I don't hate Rose, but he has done better with less talent. Thus why I think he may have hit a plateau. We barely made the tournament last season and most likely will not this season.

Gunk wrote:



We are out of place in the WCC. Our student section is larger than most of the gyms in the WCC - there are probably more BYU fans than WCC fans combined. BYU fans filling opponents' gyms hasn't endured us to the WCC.

I work with a Santa Clara Bronco and a St. Mary's Gael. In central California I cannot say that we vastly outnumber WCC schools. I am constantly embarrassed by how snobbish and obnoxious our fans are about gym sizes and fan bases. These schools are incredible institutions, with beautiful campuses and facilities. We happen to have a large number, but we really ignore that they have great fans, who are less in number but exactly just as passionate about their teams. We have a lot of fans that are jerks that I constantly have to apologize for and I hate it. Our fans are known to say things like “we should never lose to a school as small as such and such.” As if school size determined athletic ability. And not realizing tha the fewer in number but equally passionate fans of the smaller schools read and hear that tripe and think, “oh you’re so much better than us – OK go it alone”



Yes the MWC schools never had out back, and I’m fine with that. We have much more in common with our WCC friends than the MWC rabble that we joined up with. I was pollyannishly hoping that we could be good sports to our new athletic home and get along well with them. Unfortunately we don’t seem to be able to. And as a result, I constantly have to apologize for idiotic fans who have never done anything athletic in their life big timing a “smaller” school about gym size, and student sections, and what not when these other fans are very well connected, very well placed socially, and want to be able to enjoy a fun game with good spirit.

Good points from Puma and BYUFan. I think we should have a board rule about derogatory remarks like you mention. We can't do much about rumor board but we can have a respectable board here. At least until Airwolf shows up again.

My mind went to Elizabeth Lambert in the 2009 Women's Soccer match vs. New Mexico. Her dirty play wasn't acknowledged until she threw one of our players to the ground by her hair. There's good video of it on YouTube (in other words I don't know how to embed what I found yet).

Is there any video of Nick getting punched?

gingi wrote:
My mind went to Elizabeth Lambert in the 2009 Women's Soccer match vs. New Mexico. Her dirty play wasn't acknowledged until she threw one of our players to the ground by her hair. There's good video of it on YouTube (in other words I don't know how to embed what I found yet).

Is there any video of Nick getting punched?

I spoke with someone familiar with the Lambert situation, and he indicated that they had been prepared for what happened. The perpetrator of the violence had a rep going in, and they were sure based on what they had analyzed that something bad was going to happen, so they assigned one of the cameramen to shoot that player the entire match. Since the incident was so far off ball, it would likely not have been caught on camera if they hadn't planned for it. The shot at Emory apparently was not as well forseen, but, now we know Taylor is at least part of the instigators, tho considering who we are talking about, I am sure there were a lot more involved in making it rough for our players than just Brandon Taylor. The School with the 7th highest personal fouls in the nation in football is now coming thru in BB. The leopard's spots are true to form.



I hope we never play Utah again.

sage wrote:

My mind went to Elizabeth Lambert in the 2009 Women's Soccer match vs. New Mexico. Her dirty play wasn't acknowledged until she threw one of our players to the ground by her hair. There's good video of it on YouTube (in other words I don't know how to embed what I found yet).

Is there any video of Nick getting punched?

I spoke with someone familiar with the Lambert situation, and he indicated that they had been prepared for what happened. The perpetrator of the violence had a rep going in, and they were sure based on what they had analyzed that something bad was going to happen, so they assigned one of the cameramen to shoot that player the entire match. Since the incident was so far off ball, it would likely not have been caught on camera if they hadn't planned for it. The shot at Emory apparently was not as well forseen, but, now we know Taylor is at least part of the instigators, tho considering who we are talking about, I am sure there were a lot more involved in making it rough for our players than just Brandon Taylor. The School with the 7th highest personal fouls in the nation in football is now coming thru in BB. The leopard's spots are true to form.



I hope we never play Utah again.

I'm glad emery punched that kid, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to see any of the BYU - Utah game and now I at least get to see 15 seconds of it. #pac12networksucks.

I'm not smart enough to be able to copy at insert a link. But if you Google you can find a member of video clips. You have to look very close, but you can see Taylor throwing elbow to Emery's head right before he gets punched.

But there was a way better one that came out and was instagramed a few days after the game that showed it in slow motion and it's clear Taylor elbowed him.

scott715 wrote:
Good points from Puma and BYUFan. I think we should have a board rule about derogatory remarks like you mention. We can't do much about rumor board but we can have a respectable board here. At least until Airwolf shows up again.

What do you consider derogatory? You're not going Mizzou on us are you? What has been said of the WCC that is so derogatory? They have smaller gyms. Fact. You had better apply this to ALL schools including Utah and especially BYU. Many many posters say "mean" things about our own BYU players and staff. If you were to ban everyone that said something mean about Utah and BYU there would be virtually no one left here. Think Nelson/Heaps. Think Utah basketball cancellation. There is some pure hatred on here towards Utah. What is said about WCC schools is TAME in comparison.

byufan4ever wrote:

We are out of place in the WCC. Our student section is larger than most of the gyms in the WCC - there are probably more BYU fans than WCC fans combined. BYU fans filling opponents' gyms hasn't endured us to the WCC.

Being in a conference with all private Christian schools gives me a warm and fuzzy, but we are definitely out of place! Agree!

Gunk wrote:


Lastly, BYU basketball is struggling. If the team was on a roll or had we beaten Utah, I think the tone among BYU fans would be differently. With more "talent" on the team we seem to be doing less. Rose took a team with Brock Zylstra on it further than he's taking this crew. That doesn't get the home town crowd fired up much.

Agree! I don't hate Rose, but he has done better with less talent. Thus why I think he may have hit a plateau. We barely made the tournament last season and most likely will not this season.

Rose never had to replace nine players from the previous year's team, making this perhaps his most challenging year ever. In general the fans don't really recognize or acknowledge that, but it's a fact. The team is clearly playing better as a whole since the UNM game. The SMC game was a loss and was frustrating for that reason, but they're actually playing like the best team in the WCC right now, including the Zags, who really should have lost last week to both the Santa Clara team we just destroyed and to USF.



BYU only has one conference loss right now on the road to the first place team. We're actually still in position to finish not just in the top 2 in the league, but actually win it if things fall into place. The outlook is only dire if you assume we're going to lose to some bad teams coming up, but I emphasize that has not happened yet this season. Past seasons are not relevant to me. Rose never lost to bad teams when we were in the MWC. The reason it's been a challenge in the WCC is because our talent took a hit for a few years and is just now building back. Yes, the recruiting dip is on him (as well as the change in LDS mission age), but he corrected it. The team is playing well. Nor is there any reason to believe SMC or even Gonzaga winning in Provo is already a done deal.



But for now I'm just enjoying each game as we go. Last night's was entertaining and encouraging to see the offense and defense playing well together. Again, SCU isn't great but they are capable of playing pretty well as evidenced by nearly beating the Zags and Arizona this year. Now we get USF and I expect we'll wipe them out as well. It's also always fun to annoy Rex Walters.



As far as the future goes, it's really hard to make the case that Rose has hit any plateaus when the objective data on the incoming talent over the next few years shows he's going to be playing with a higher level of talent than he's ever had. Let's see what he does with that before deciding he won't ever get any better. His recruiting has gotten better, and that's not debateable. Seljaas was even a 4star guy by one recruiting service. It's clear he's going to make an impact, and he's only the 8th highest rated guy of the players we'll have over the next 3-4 years. I love BYU basketball, and seeing what is coming in the immediate pipeline has me excited.

ABYUFAN wrote:

We are out of place in the WCC. Our student section is larger than most of the gyms in the WCC - there are probably more BYU fans than WCC fans combined. BYU fans filling opponents' gyms hasn't endured us to the WCC.

I work with a Santa Clara Bronco and a St. Mary's Gael. In central California I cannot say that we vastly outnumber WCC schools. I am constantly embarrassed by how snobbish and obnoxious our fans are about gym sizes and fan bases. These schools are incredible institutions, with beautiful campuses and facilities. We happen to have a large number, but we really ignore that they have great fans, who are less in number but exactly just as passionate about their teams. We have a lot of fans that are jerks that I constantly have to apologize for and I hate it. Our fans are known to say things like “we should never lose to a school as small as such and such.” As if school size determined athletic ability. And not realizing tha the fewer in number but equally passionate fans of the smaller schools read and hear that tripe and think, “oh you’re so much better than us – OK go it alone”



Yes the MWC schools never had out back, and I’m fine with that. We have much more in common with our WCC friends than the MWC rabble that we joined up with. I was pollyannishly hoping that we could be good sports to our new athletic home and get along well with them. Unfortunately we don’t seem to be able to. And as a result, I constantly have to apologize for idiotic fans who have never done anything athletic in their life big timing a “smaller” school about gym size, and student sections, and what not when these other fans are very well connected, very well placed socially, and want to be able to enjoy a fun game with good spirit.

I agree we have more in common with the WCC. I would rather be in the WCC than the MWC. My statements regarding

gym sizes and fan base were simply an observation. The sky is blue. Bill Cosby is a perv. Our student section seats more than many WCC gyms. Having gone to several WCC games and witnessed BYU fans at their finest (sarcasm), I agree the snobbery is really and embarrassing. Like I said, we haven't done much to endure ourselves to the WCC.



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scott715 wrote:
Good points from Puma and BYUFan. I think we should have a board rule about derogatory remarks like you mention. We can't do much about rumor board but we can have a respectable board here. At least until Airwolf shows up again.

I don't know if I can write exactly what I feel but I'll try. I also agree with Puma and Byufan. Derogatory remarks like "Hair Thompson", high school gyms, and puketah make me uncomfortable. Don't get me wrong, I would rather beat Utah than just about anybody else. I don't like what Thompson did and what happened because of it, that is, exiting what I consider a good conference with good rivalries. Now we are in the WCC. If we don't like it, where do we go? There is no perfect conference. If we go to a p5 or whatever the bigger conferences are called, there will still be problems, perhaps more than what we have now. I am critical of things too, as you know, and feel bad when we lose, but I try to avoid hate in something that is supposed to be sport.



The U of U president is forming a committee on this issue. I don't know if BYU is but I hope at some point the 2 schools meet together. There has been offenses from both sides. Even if it's 60% their fault and 40% ours, the animosity still needs to be reduced. I hope calmer heads can get this under control. If not maybe the 2 schools should not play each other. That would probably be better than building a cage somewhere and having a free for all. It's too bad we don't have wrestling anymore. I think we won most of the matches anyway.