Archived Topic

Addressing the Kalani Sitake concerns.

by Brayden Green · 12/22/2015

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Brayden Green
I have a little time off from work for the holiday season, and I would like to address something that disturbs me. There are a few posters on this and other sites who - I'm sure it is only coincidence, happen to be some of the biggest Bronco fans and supporters (loyalists, excuse makers, whatever you want to call it) - are attacking Sitake for his defenses and are relating that to being a head coach, as if that was enough data for them to make an educated decision.



Here is a little pushback for to this disturbing trend, and some information that those quoting stats of receding defenses might not be telling you, or might be ignoring altogether (in part they are sore about Bronco leaving, and in part because they are worried, I get it).



They have mentioned declining total defense stats, and I get it. Making a quick look and a spreadsheet comparison gives you a certain picture, (albeit a very rash and hasty one). There are a few things that those stats won't tell you, however. Strength of schedule for example. While Bronco has had a relatively easy schedule year in and year out, Utah's schedule has gotten harder and harder each year since getting into the Pac12. Now, I don't think that the Pac 12 is as good as everyone thinks they are, but Utah's schedule has been undeniably better/stronger than ours have played out. I mean, one year our strongest opponent was Utah State and you can't say that about Utah's schedule in any of the last 6-7 years.


Year Jeff Sagarin SOS Ranking (Blue BYU - Utah Red - Oregon State Orange)



2005 11 67

2006 74 73

2007 59 60

2008 74 56

2009 61 75

2010 50 55

2011 90 49

2012 63 41

2013 38 3

2014 69 36

2015 64 11


If you look at the actual data, the schedule has gotten harder EVERY YEAR SINCE SITAKE TOOK OVER AS DC! I mean, seriously, this kind of stuff doesn't just happen in a bubble. Playing better teams you are not going to give up more yards and points. It happens. If you want to turn away a good coach because you don't want to take 30 minutes to look at the data rationally, then that's on you.



Another thing that a blind look at the stats WON'T tell you, is in part why those stats descend. Another large part, is players moving on to the NFL (meaning Juniors or non-redshirting Sophomores here) that are harder than normal to replace, on top of all the graduating Seniors that must be replaced.



Kalani has coached 23 defensive players that have gone on to the NFL since 2005. By comparison, Bronco has 6 defensive players drafted in 13 years as a DC and Head coach, and 12 TOTAL players drafted in 11 years.





2015 R3 Steven Nelson, CB Kansas City

2015 R5 D.J. Alexander, LB Kansas City

2015 R6 Obum Gwacham, DE Seattle Seahawks

2015 R7 Ryan Murphy, S Seattle Seahawks

2015 R2 Eric Rowe,

2015 R2 Nate Orchard

2014 R4 Keith McGill, Raiders DB

2014 R7 Trevor Reilly, Jets LB

2013 R1 Star Lotulelei, Panthers DT

2013 R7 Joe Kruger, Eagles DE

2011 R5 Brandon Burton, Vikings DB

2010 R2 Koa Misi, Dolphins LB

2010 R5 Robert Johnson (safety) Titans DB

2010 R5 Stevenson Sylvester Steelers LB

2010 R7 R. J. Stanford Panthers DB

2010 R2 Paul Kruger (American football) Ravens DE

2009 R2 Sean Smith Dolphins DB

2009 R6 Brice McCain Texans DB

2007 R2 Eric Weddle Chargers DB

2007 R4 Paul Soliai Dolphins DT

2006 R7 Spencer Toone Titans LB

2005 R3 Sione Pouha Jets DT

2005 R7 Jonathan Fanene Bengals DE


For those keeping track at home, that is 1 first round pick, 6 second round picks, 2 3rd round picks, 2 fourth round picks, and so on. You can compare that to Bronco's 1 first round pick, 1 second round pick, and the other 4 are 4th round and below.



So, the people that get paid a substantial amount of money to go over thousands of hours of tape a year think that Kalani Sitake is overwhelmingly the better personnel coach, at least when it comes down to preparation for the NFL.



The overspeak on this and other boards about Sitake not being a capable coach is ludicrous. I understand the concern, but let's give it AT MINIMUM a few months to play out. I am sure that he will do fine with the talent here at BYU and I am excited to see the changes take place in our recruiting and overall approach to how BYU football relates to the rest of the college football landscape.
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ABYUFAN
I'm concerned about the Sitake hire, but I don't have any sort of agenda. I'm fine to give it some time to play out, but there are a few things in your post that gave me pause.


Brayden Green wrote:
While Bronco has had a relatively easy schedule year in and year out, Utah's schedule has gotten harder and harder each year since getting into the Pac12.


Bronco's average strength of schedule is 59.3, Utah/OSU 47.8. Is that really that big of a difference?
Brayden Green wrote:

I mean, one year our strongest opponent was Utah State and you can't say that about Utah's schedule in any of the last 6-7 years.


Wasn't Utah on our schedule that year? So you're saying that Utah wasn't even as good as Utah State, and we can't consider that fact when evaluating our new coach?


Brayden Green wrote:
Kalani has coached 23 defensive players that have gone on to the NFL since 2005. By comparison, Bronco has 6 defensive players drafted in 13 years as a DC and Head coach, and 12 TOTAL players drafted in 11 years..


These are two different things - right? Number of players DRAFTED is always lower than number of players that make it to the NFL. I haven't looked at the stats (obviously Utah has better numbers) but if looks like you're deliberately trying to skew numbers already against Bronco to look even worse with the "stat"


Brayden Green wrote:
So, the people that get paid a substantial amount of money to go over thousands of hours of tape a year think that Kalani Sitake is overwhelmingly the better personnel coach, at least when it comes down to preparation for the NFL..

:lol: :D :lol: :D :P Come on - you're better than this... You're telling me that the difference between Eric Weddle and Micah Hanneman is coaching in college? Or the difference between Star Lotolle and Graham Rowley, again, is coaching? Their talent has nothing to do with the equation? Come on - give us a little bit of credit here....



I'm with you on letting this play out - And I get it, we need to treat Bronco a little less with kid gloves now that he has chosen to leave. Comparisons between Sitake and Bronco are as irrelevant as the comparisons between Bronco and Whittingham were when Bronco was here. One choses to be our coach, the other made a decision to not be our coach. The comparisons are moot.



That said, I think that a lot of the angst that comes from the Sitake detractors arise from the assertions that he will be an automatic upgrade from Bronco. I don’t see it.
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frdbtr
I haven't seen any attacks on Sitake. I am not thrilled with the hire, I have made that clear. I don't think he has been a very good dcoordinator, but I am hoping for the best here because he is now the head coach of my cougars for better or worse. I will probably have less patience for his failures than I would have had if BYU had hired someone that I felt better about. I hope I don't have to have patience with him though. One more point; do you think that if Bronco had been OSU's dcoordinator this year instead of Sitake, that their defense would have been ranked 110+ in total defense? Me neither.
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Schmoe
Wait, how is 36 a harder schedule than 3 the previous year? Why did the Sitake defense still get worse from 2013 to 2014 if they were playing an easier schedule? And why did Utah's defense get better in 2015 against a substantially harder schedule without Sitake? With as much NFL defensive talent as Sitake had, shouldn't his defenses have been much, much better?



Waaahhhh! Schmoe's ATTACKING him. Waaaahhhh! Oh wait, maybe he's just a concerned fan expressing why he's concerned about the hire, but myopic and vindictive posters, who all seem to have been in the "fire Bronco" camp (hmmm...) can't seem to accept that Sitake is anything other than the second coming and a perfect football coach.
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Wolverine
This is some funny stuff right here. The same crowd that was relentless in their Bronco has to go and Anae is not the guy are now crying foul over those expressing their concern over the Sitake hire? The idiocy and hypocrisy of mankind never ceases to amaze me. I for one am excited about what I saw and heard yesterday and wish nothing but the best for Coach Sitake and Bronco.



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pikoi
I haven't been around enough lately to know who is in what camp as far as posters on the board. Where I stand is simple- Bronco is an excellent coach and has left the program in a very good position. He will likely be missed in many ways.



Kalani isn't a perfect candidate. However given the options, I am confident that Kalani Sitake was the best hire we could make (apparently Nick Saban didn't want the job...).Others who are much more knowledgeable about the strengths and weaknesses of the BYU program expect that we will see some surprising success in recruiting of all ethnicities of athletes. This is expected, not exclusively "because he is Tongan," but because he brings a very different personality and attitude. I have spoken with several former players and some FORMER donors, all of whom expressed their excitement and a newfound support for the program. Kalani's past experiences and personal interactions are directly driving a huge upswelling of support coming from many former players and important donors. Personally, I recognize and share many of the concerns that have been voiced. But I believe we have reason to believe that his strengths will overcome his weaknesses.
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Schmoe
Wolverine wrote:
This is some funny stuff right here. The same crowd that was relentless in their Bronco has to go and Anae is not the guy are now crying foul over those expressing their concern over the Sitake hire? The idiocy and hypocrisy of mankind never ceases to amaze me. I for one am excited about what I saw and heard yesterday and wish nothing but the best for Coach Sitake and Bronco.



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It's because they're all-or-nothing kinds of guys. If Bronco had any faults, which he obviously did, then he had to go. Now if anybody points out any faults in Sitake, it means they hate him personally and want him fired and hope someone steals his kid's Christmas presents (because that's how these posters have felt about Bronco and they can't understand that a good coach could still have faults and that anyone could possibly have doubts about the new hire). But since it's an alternative to Bronco, they have to defend it to the death.
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Cougs_Rule
What a bunch of crap coming from you Schmoe. Not all who criticized bronco wanted him gone. You somehow belief your "rhetoric" is more elevated than other posters and it's getting old. Your stats are no stronger than those who support KS. So get off your high horse disparagements before all these threads get locked up.
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Schmoe
Look at Pikoi's post above. He is positive about the new hire, likes what BYU is doing, but can understand how others might have concerns and doubts. He doesn't have to personally attack them in each thread to make himself feel better about his own view, and he's respectful of different points of view. He doesn't call them attacks or take it personally.
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KingCoug
Whatever one's reservations, the guy deserves a chance.



And obviously SOOOO much is going to depend on the staff he hires and surrounds himself with.



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BroncoBot
KingCoug wrote:
Whatever one's reservations, the guy deserves a chance.



And obviously SOOOO much is going to depend on the staff he hires and surrounds himself with.



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I'd say everyone is going to give him a chance. I'm hoping he does awesome.
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Guest
It will be fantastic if Sitake can come in and be the best head coach BYU has ever had. I'm looking forward to it. It will depend on awful lot on the assistants that he hires, having had no previous head coaching experience he will need to rely a lot on a strong coaching staff. His first real test as a HC will be who he brings in as staff. That alone will probably have more impact on his future than anything else.
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Gunk
Sitake has my full support until proven otherwise.



I stopped caring about Bronco the moment he opted to ditch BYU.



We should see if there is a correlation between Bronco haters/defenders, Sitake haters/defenders and Heapsites/Nelsonites.



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BroncoBot
Gunk wrote:
Sitake has my full support until proven otherwise.



I stopped caring about Bronco the moment he opted to ditch BYU.



We should see if there is a correlation between Bronco haters/defenders, Sitake haters/defenders and Heapsites/Nelsonites.



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I'll provide my background. Bronco supporter, certainly will be Sitake supporter, and was definitely a Nelson supporter...
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stuckinbig10country
I'm definitely a Bronco fan. I think he's a better coach than Sitake will be in a lot of ways. I had Sitake either 2nd or 3rd out of the possible candidates (Bevell was 1st in my mind, then either Sitake or Anderson from Stanford). I think the program is in great shape, and Sitake has a lot to work with, and that's different than what the previous 3 hires had (Edwards built it from nothing, Crowton had a good senior class his first year but talent on the roster dropped significantly after that, and we all know what Bronco had to build from).



My issues with Sitake can easily be corrected, but here are a few:



1. They hype - It's gonna be hard to live up to the expectations that have been created around Sitake (not by Kalani). This level of hype reminds me of the 2008 election. So many people thought Obama was going to cure cancer and AIDS and peace would reign upon all the world and everyone would be taken care of. Even had Obama been a good president (which he hasn't been), there was no way he was going to be able to live up to the hype.



2. The Posse - I worry that the Hans Olson's, Derik Stevenson's, and Jason Buck's of the world will put a lot of pressure on Kalani for really unfair access. Bronco reached out to alumni and was pretty open with them, until a few of them burned him. Will Kalani be able to build the necessary wall between what access is proper and what isn't? Hard to tell your buddies no...



3. Inexperience. Not just his as a head coach, but the coordinators and position coaches will be inexperienced for the most part. For me, this actually isn't all that big of a deal. Last staff had similar issues, but overcame them.



4. Emphasis on skill over schemes. I get that recruiting is huge in college football. I believe Bronco knew this as well, but also knew the environment to which he was recruiting, and tried to lower expectations of the fan base and then hopefully pull a few kids away from the Pac 12 schools not named Utah (BYU and Utah basically got each of their top instate targets, and they rarely competed for the same out of state recruits). But I hear that the number 1 requirement for assistants is the ability to recruit...that doesn't sit well with me. If the kids get on campus, and the coaches who can recruit so well can't coach worth a lick, it's not gonna matter.



Overall, it was time for a change for both Bronco and BYU. Kalani has a lot of the qualities that BYU needs at this time. I am concerned about his X's and O's, especially compared to Bronco. I think Sitake will be surprised about the changes at BYU from when he was there, but will hopefully adjust. Some kids that could qualify while he was there can't now. That's just the facts.
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Brayden Green
My goodness! I should have named this thread, "Please come post strawman argument responses here." It's impossible to have an honest conversation with some of you.



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stuckinbig10country
Seems that several people looked at your original argument, posted good and well thought out rebuttals directly to your argument using your own statistics.



Then the thread changed to talk about some of the concerns BYU fans have about Kalani Sitake, but most are at least open to giving him a chance.
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Brayden Green
I have some time to answer direct questions now. Yesterday was pretty busy.


ABYUFAN wrote:
I'm concerned about the Sitake hire, but I don't have any sort of agenda. I'm fine to give it some time to play out, but there are a few things in your post that gave me pause.


While Bronco has had a relatively easy schedule year in and year out, Utah's schedule has gotten harder and harder each year since getting into the Pac12.


Bronco's average strength of schedule is 59.3, Utah/OSU 47.8. Is that really that big of a difference?




Short answer? Yes. It's a 20% increase in difficulty, and it's pretty much incremental, year in and year out. So yes, it's a big difference. Next question.


Abyufan wrote:

I mean, one year our strongest opponent was Utah State and you can't say that about Utah's schedule in any of the last 6-7 years.


Wasn't Utah on our schedule that year? So you're saying that Utah wasn't even as good as Utah State, and we can't consider that fact when evaluating our new coach?


I suppose? Utah beat us that year too... So technically they were better than us, but worse than our best team... I was pointing out that we have had weak schedules compared to Utah, but use the data to make whatever comparisons you like :)


abyufan wrote:
These are two different things - right? Number of players DRAFTED is always lower than number of players that make it to the NFL. I haven't looked at the stats (obviously Utah has better numbers) but if looks like you're deliberately trying to skew numbers already against Bronco to look even worse with the "stat"



:lol: :D :lol: :D :P Come on - you're better than this... You're telling me that the difference between Eric Weddle and Micah Hanneman is coaching in college? Or the difference between Star Lotolle and Graham Rowley, again, is coaching? Their talent has nothing to do with the equation? Come on - give us a little bit of credit here....


Sure, but recruiting and developing players both comes down to coaching. So either Kalani got better guys on defense, or coached them better, or both, he is still an upgrade in comparison.



Kalani will bring that good recruting to BYU. Bronco didn't like recruiting, admitted it, didn't do much his first four or 5 years, then it bit him in the butt. At UVA he will be expected to recruit his butt off. People choose BYU over other schools because of it's special distinction. BYU is a destination school, and recruiting is actually easier here than at other universities at our same talent level. UVA is not a destination school and Bronco is going to be in trouble there.
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Cougs_Rule
BroncoBot wrote:
Sitake has my full support until proven otherwise.



I stopped caring about Bronco the moment he opted to ditch BYU.



We should see if there is a correlation between Bronco haters/defenders, Sitake haters/defenders and Heapsites/Nelsonites.



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I'll provide my background. Bronco supporter, certainly will be Sitake supporter, and was definitely a Nelson supporter...


Sitake supporter, but doubter, right? Or have you changed your position? ;-)
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Brayden Green
frdbtr wrote:
One more point; do you think that if Bronco had been OSU's dcoordinator this year instead of Sitake, that their defense would have been ranked 110+ in total defense? Me neither.


I'm not sure. It's possible. Do you think that if OSU had our talent they would be 110? Probably not.



A question for you: Do you think that if Sitake was coach in the Miami Bowl against Memphis he would have used two timeouts trying to ice the kicker on a PAT? Probably Not.

Do you think that if Kalani was the coach against Utah would they A) be down 35 points in the first quarter and B) if they were, would he kick a field goal down 35 points? Probably not.



I think it goes both ways :)
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